Who is your favorite USA lady and who do you think will come out on top this season?!

[feraina]

Caroline Zhang, 176.48 at Grand Prix final
Rachael Flatt, 172.19 at Junior Worlds
Mirai Nagasu, 163.34 at 2007 Junior Worlds
Ashley Wagner, 158.63 at Eric Bompard

Thanks for the stats. Alissa's high scores stood out for me, but I didn't realize just how good they were compared to the up-and-comers. Of course, club or international "B" events aren't the same as major GP or ISU championships. Does anyone know if Nebelhorn tends to be inflated or not versus major international competitions? The pressure isn't the same either. Still, this is the best I've seen Alissa skate in two or three years. The best thing is that she's skating with more conviction and confidence. Good for her!

It's interesting to me that she got such high PCS's at Nebelhorn. She doesn't skate especially fast or does particularly hard footwork (like Mao or Carolina), but what is obvious that she skates with her heart (to some beautiful music & choreography). Might there be a shift in PCS scoring toward these "artistic" qualities this year? Or do international judges suddenly like Alissa more? Or maybe this particular judging panel? Personally, I think it'd be a great development if it's a general phenomenon. I'd love to see PCS scoring to be more balanced among speed, performance, choreography, body line, etc.

Can Alissa win anything with a 5 triple program and no triple-triple? Shizuka Arakawa did at the Olympics.

I love Alissa, but whereas Shizuka was only up against Irina Slutskaya with a reliable 3/3 (plus the inconsistent Carolina Kostner and developing Kimmie Meissner), and in any case had a reliable 3/3 of her own at her disposal in times of need, Alissa is now up against a number of skaters with a fairly reliable 3/3: Mao Asada, Yu-na Kim, Carolina Kostner, Miki Ando, Caroline Zhang, Rachael Flatt, Ashley Wagner, Mirai Nagasu. Plus Yukari Nakano with a 3A, and a bunch of strong domestic and international skaters with 3T-3T (Alex Gilles, Angela Maxwell, some Finnish and Japanese skaters), not to mention an apparently resurgent Elene G with her 3Z/3T back this season.

This is the one time when the old cliche, "just skate and have fun," really comes into play.

That's probably a good mindset to follow for every skater!

 

[kittyjake5]

Good post Feraina. :thumbsup:

It will be exciting to see how everything plays out leading up to Vancouver with so many talented ladies in the field.

 

[vlaurend]

For comparison, here are some others' PBs in international competition.

Caroline Zhang, 176.48 at Grand Prix final
Rachael Flatt, 172.19 at Junior Worlds
Mirai Nagasu, 163.34 at 2007 Junior Worlds
Ashley Wagner, 158.63 at Eric Bompard

Don't forget Rachael's and Mirai's scores are for Junior programs, which have fewer elements and less time to rack up PCS marks. Although the scores below are not from international competitions, they are for this season's programs judged under this season's rules. Caroline Zhang did back-to-back clean programs with no underrotation calls, so she's looking like the clear front runner as the season kicks off. We know Mirai was able to beat Caroline last season, but she hasn't competed yet this season due to an ankle injury, so it remains to be seen how much her skating will be affected.

Caroline Zhang 181.00 (Golden West)
Alissa Czisny 168.77* (Viviani Memorial)
Ashley Wagner 166.45 (DuPage Open)
Rachael Flatt 166.01 (CO Championships)

*Alissa just scored 168.28 at Nebelhorn Trophy, an international comp.

 

[chuckm]

The Senior "B"s do tend to be overmarked, so Alissa's Nebelhorn score may not extrapolate to a GP or ISU Championship score.

 

[Pikachuusb]

as long as it boosts her confidence, I'll take an overmarked program:yes: I just hope she continues on this streak the rest of the season

 

[flying camel]

I am sure they are just working on Alissa's confidence right now. She usually does 2 flips, and she can do several 3/3's . I have only seen her do one.

At this point just standing up the jumps is a big accomplishment. She has had some horrible skates in the past. I'm happy for her. We will see how she does at Skate Canada when she has a little pressure.

 

[R.D.]

What does Alyssa have to do with the topic?

There have been talks of her being this, being that for FOUR years now. Even the TV commentators are guilty of this. It takes a certain amount of mental toughness to make it, no matter how much talent you have. If you don't got it, you don't got it...end of story. It won't just magically appear one day you wake up.

That said, I do wish her the best this season. I remember saying similar things about Cohen, actually, when everyone was getting on her case for not winning anything big. Has it not occurred to some folks that maybe she (and Alyssa) have tried their best, and it just isn't working out?

 

[turtle]

in referenceto chuck m--in regards to national champ and ogm
1/ they wanted tara to become the next sonja henie -so they overlooked her faults on jumping technique and lowness of jumps. whereas michelle they nitpicked to death.also the usfsa politiced taras win in 1996 by Grandfathering her in that year to worlds.letting the other federations know once tara got up there they preferredher over michelle by being chineses descent.

You recently brought up this racial issue also in the thread about Caroline Zhang. I often think that racism will never go away because of those people who constantly claim that every failure, unfortunate incident, or criticism is attributed to racial discrimination. This makes us feel afraid of giving any constructive criticism for fear that we will be unfairly labeled racists. I am a teacher and I often lament the fact that I cannot give fair criticism to minority students for that same fear and that I end up turning blind eyes to their mistakes and bad judgements, which eventually is not fair to those students as well as others. What is ironic is that I am Asian American myself.

Personally I love Michelle's skating but do not think that she was robbed of her gold medal. It was close and I reluctantly understood why the judges went with the other skater.

 

[Mathman]

What does Alyssa have to do with the topic?

Well, the topic is, "Who is your favorite USA lady..."

 

[Tonichelle]

turtle - couldn't agree with you more.

and thank you for being a teacher. yours is truly a thankless job (unfortunately) these days!

 

[gkelly]

Don't forget Rachael's and Mirai's scores are for Junior programs, which have fewer elements and less time to rack up PCS marks.

Yes, but also don't forget that all junior and senior long programs have one less element this year than they had last year, so we can expect the base marks this year to be 3 or so points lower in general than last year's base marks.

The intention is to give more time for in-betweens. In theory all the skaters who take advantage of that opportunity should be rewarded in the PCS for doing so.

 

[chuckm]

The intention is to give more time for in-betweens. In theory all the skaters who take advantage of that opportunity should be rewarded in the PCS for doing so.

The key word is "should". Unfortunately, some judges use PCS scores as an ordinal to place skaters where they want them. So for a particular judge the PCS scores might go up for the "favored" skater but not for anyone else.

 

[Dodhiyel]

I do not have a favorite yet; I like more than one lol. Besides, some of them are so young, I want to wait and see how they develop. Puberty can change so much for a skater.

 

[fairly4]

you know what i wrote and said. it just made you mad . it is possible true what i said. as far as capital letters and puncatition. unless i have time to really write , which i usually dont.
i don't blame you. alot of what is being said on this forum is upsetting. not one of it is objective. it can't be. why because we are human and figure skating is an objective sport not a math sport or time sport. unfortunately that is why there is always cheating.
they cheated for micheal phelps. how--micheal being associated with omega which did the timing for swimming and they deepend the pool dept to help with the speed, and speedo made the suits so they could swim faster.
heck they cheat in all sports. unfortunately they didn't cheat for michelle and not going to cheat for caroline zhang becuase of their heritage.
why you guys was all up in arms about the chinese gymnast ages, but never once complained about other countries, or us ages in earlier olmpics being underage or the us figure skaters when they (grandfathered) them in which was supposed to. so yes, let us don't do what we demand from other countries.
let us cheat for us only and make other countries abide by the rules. if the U.S. don't like it tough.
what this got to do with favorite U.S. girl. Everything- it is how the U.S. is going to cheat for one U.S. girl over the other including politics.

 

[ChrisH]

what this got to do with favorite U.S. girl. Everything- it is how the U.S. is going to cheat for one U.S. girl over the other including politics.

While I agree with you that the judging of Caroline at Nationals was inexplicably bad, it was IMO fair the previous years before that. The harsh scoring three years ago and at Skate America had/has to do with the ISU's downgrading rules rather than the USFS. And the downgrading rules also hurt Kimmie. Michelle's 9 National and 5 World titles kind of dispells the racism argument.

 

[Wrlmy]

why you guys was all up in arms about the chinese gymnast ages, but never once complained about other countries, or us ages in earlier olmpics being underage or the us figure skaters when they (grandfathered) them in which was supposed to.

Two totally different situations. one violated the rule, one didn't. You know which is which.

 

[chuckm]

I am putting "fairly4" on IGNORE so I don't have to try to decode out his/her biased ramblings. Anyone else offended by his/her posts should do the same.

 

[feraina]

Racism or not, Michelle and Caroline both do have unusually large and vocal anti-fans, compared to most skaters. Maybe it's a consequence of their success and abundance of ueber-fans, more than anything else. But if someone's sensitive about the issue of racism, then it's hard to debunk that.

Anyway, going back to the topic of the thread, I think any of Caroline, Mirai, Rachael, or Ashley could come out on top. But Alissa is starting to look like a more serious threat. If she can consistently land 5 triples, she might medal at the GP's, and if she can land 6 in the LP (and nail the SP), while the youngsters falter a little, then she could well stand on the podium at National's.

Apparently Rachael is planning on two 3-3's in her LP this year. It'll be amazing if she can implement that. I also just saw comments on Youtube from two skaters who skate at Caroline's rink, who are saying that not only has she gotten her 3S back, but that she's working on 3S-3R.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMkN-b5zO4I

Maybe Caroline decided that it's not worth spending another summer trying to fix the flutz (like last summer) with potentially little result, and it's better to focus her energy on getting the 3S back, repeating the 3R, and yes, why not a second 3-3?

It'll be great if one or both of these girls could really manage two 3-3's. They'll give Mao a good fight on the GP circuit. After all, Mao's 3A isn't as reliable as her two 3-3's, although Mao can be expected to garner much higher (& deserved) PCS.

 

[mskater93]

Racism or not, Michelle and Caroline both do have unusually large and vocal anti-fans, compared to most skaters. Maybe it's a consequence of their success and abundance of ueber-fans, more than anything else. But if someone's sensitive about the issue of racism, then it's hard to debunk that.

Sasha also has her share of anti-fans (and always had) as does Irina. Most of the time the anti-fans form that opinion because they run into a string of individuals who are completely irrational uber-fans who porport that anyone who doesn't love XYZ is a hater and they are dumb, etc. People also get tired of hearing the gushing all the time and so become anti to a given skater because of it.

 

[R.D.]

Sasha also has her share of anti-fans (and always had) as does Irina. Most of the time the anti-fans form that opinion because they run into a string of individuals who are completely irrational uber-fans who porport that anyone who doesn't love XYZ is a hater and they are dumb, etc. People also get tired of hearing the gushing all the time and so become anti to a given skater because of it.

couldn't have said it better myself. If the ubers are wondering why some don't share their rosy opinion of their skater, perhaps they should look at themselves and realize they might be part of the reason.