Exactly!MKbeauty said:Just wanted to add my two cents with regard to PCS scores and "leaving out" jumps. The whole basis of the NJS is to garner as many points as possible. If a skater doesn't have a 3/3, they must figure out a way to maximize their points by following the rules and using the stated ISU criteria. If they must leave out a jump in order to accomplish this, wouldn't it be a little harsh for the judges to turn around and deduct PCS points for this (especially if the two jumps they are repeating are two of the hardest triples - the flip and lutz)?
If that be the case, then the judges should also deduct PCS points from skaters who don't show variety in their other elements as well (i.e., using the biellman position in every spin and spiral).
JMHO.
Well, this is not nearly as clear cut as Irina versus Sasha.Joesitz said:Can Jeffrey catch Stephane?
Going by the numbers from Worlds, Michelle does not have to do anything new to get a medal. She was third in both the short program and the long, without really doing much of anything.Joe said:Can Michelle get a medal?
MKbeauty said:Great discussion - thanks for all the information.
Just wanted to add my two cents with regard to PCS scores and "leaving out" jumps. The whole basis of the NJS is to garner as many points as possible. If a skater doesn't have a 3/3, they must figure out a way to maximize their points by following the rules and using the stated ISU criteria. If they must leave out a jump in order to accomplish this, wouldn't it be a little harsh for the judges to turn around and deduct PCS points for this (especially if the two jumps they are repeating are two of the hardest triples - the flip and lutz)?
If that be the case, then the judges should also deduct PCS points from skaters who don't show variety in their other elements as well (i.e., using the biellman position in every spin and spiral).
JMHO.
Joesitz said:I think what we have at this point in time are two close races:
Irina v. Sasha and Stephane v. Buttle.
I would say - at this point in time - Carolina, Michelle, Evan and Johnny have a lot of catching up to do. The only way they can catch leader is to be sure they can pass the No.2 skater also who may take the lead. We now have something to go on when the GPs are in full swing.
As for Michelle - well, I'm not banking on the cheesefests to redeem her. No GPs, no Oly medal. JMO.
Joe
Good point, Mathman.Mathman said:Going by the numbers from Worlds, Michelle does not have to do anything new to get a medal. She was third in both the short program and the long, without really doing much of anything.
That is an interesting comparison. Michelle scored 113.98 in her one foray into CoP judging, even with a fall on her Salcow. This puts her within one point of Irina's total at Cup of China and within two points of Irina's GP Finals score.mzheng said:(Michelle) should've studied CoC and CoR as well to see the top scores from those competetions.
Mathman said:Thanks for the numbers, MKBeauty. I agree, this gives us a clearer perspective.That is an interesting comparison. Michelle scored 113.98 in her one foray into CoP judging, even with a fall on her Salcow. This puts her within one point of Irina's total at Cup of China and within two points of Irina's GP Finals score.
Cup of China will be huge this year, with Michelle, Irina and Shizuka facing off. Wouldn't it be cool if Mao Asada won? She scored 119.13 points at Junior Worlds.
MM
MKbeauty said:I guess it's nice to have an idea of what score it will take to win a competition under the NJS; however, I still think next season is a whole new ballgame, and certainly not just a competition between the top two finishers from Worlds. Last summer, everyone was saying the Japanese women were unbeatable. Will Irina be able to keep her momentum going? Sure, her LP points from Worlds were impressive. Her scores from the GP, however, weren't nearly as high:
COC = 114.84
COR = 121.90
GPF = 115.42
Euros = 103.69
Worlds = 130.10
I think it's going to be a VERY interesting season.
Mathman said:New Judging System -- the system formerly known as CoP.
Joesitz said:ATTAgirl MK beauty - With stats like this, this is what we need to ponder over. It's not unlike stats in other sports especially baseball. If you take the mean of those stats it could mean something.
Joe
CDMM1991 said:ITA also it raises even more of a question of whether Irina's world result was decided before she took the ice.
Rgirl said:Mathman,
Kostner really is the inconsistency queen. I don't know her highest finish at Worlds off hand, but she's never been on or close to being one he podium,
Oooooooh! That was a bad one! I mean to forget Carolina won the bronze at this year's Worlds is a boo-boo for the ages, not to mention 5th place in '04.:banging: Thanks reminding me that I can never rely on my memory for placements--and as I before, I really like Kostner!Gkelly said:Um, she was on the podium (bronze medal) in 2005.
And fifth in 2004, which is "close to being on the podium."
Rgirl said:P.S. Maybe somebody should start a new thread about whether Irina's win at Worlds was predetermined.
CDMM1991 said:ITA also it raises even more of a question of whether Irina's world result was decided before she took the ice.
Rgirl said:Though I'm still concerned about (Carolina Kostner's) consistency, now that I have her correct World placements to go by, hasn't one or more people mentioned that Carolina has the same Worlds placements prior to the Olympics as Sarah?
I definitely (how's that, GrGranny ) have mixed feelings about the predictive value of all these points. Going strictly by the numbers from last year's Grand Prix series, they would say that Carolina is a junior skater who doesn't belong on the same ice as the serious contenders, while Joannie Rochette is pretty much a lock for an Olympic medal.Joe said:If one takes the trouble and it will be trouble to gather up the points from different competitions and compare them with the forthcoming GPs, I believe a different preview of the Olys will emerge.