Why is Sarah H so unpopular with so many?

[mpal2]

Of the four contenders for the 2002 Olys, I believe Sarah had the fewest fans. So for me, it seems that nitpicking her routine at that Oly is just to let loose the frustration that a personal fan did not win. If a fan of the other three would stop believing that the Olys signifies the best in the world, that will help you get over the contest and move on.

That's kind of a snide blanket statement don't you think?

 

[Mathman]

It don't think Joe's comment was intended in that way, Mpal. I do think that some fans of particular skaters don't like other skaters whom they perceive as rivals of their favorite. This is just human nature. But as you say, no one can make a blanket statement about all fans.

To me, it is silly for anyone who was rooting for Irina or for Michelle in the Olympics to blame Sarah for anything. Sarah skated her best that night. Irina and Michelle didn't. End of story. I agree with Joe's take that we put so much emphasis on the Olympics that we forget it is just one contest on one particular night.

At the same time, people are free to see flaws in Sarah's skating (no one is perfect, after all...except Mi...OK, ignore this parenthetical comment), without having to bring in Michelle or Sasha or anybody else.

Just my opinion.

Mathman

 

[liberal]

Of the four contenders for the 2002 Olys, I believe Sarah had the fewest fans. So for me, it seems that nitpicking her routine at that Oly is just to let loose the frustration that a personal fan did not win. If a fan of the other three would stop believing that the Olys signifies the best in the world, that will help you get over the contest and move on.

Look to 2006, the three ladies who did not win will again be competitin, but be prepared for another spoiler.

Joe

This post is more offensive than the title of this thread.

 

[Mathman]

About the title of this thread, we all know Sk8m8 well enough to know that no disrespect was intended to Sarah or anyone else.

Still, I have to agree with Registered and others who brought up this point. Any time you have a thread titled, "Why don't you like So-and-so," a bunch of posters will sign on to say, "I don't like So-and-so because..." And then the other side will rally with, "Oh yeah? Well, So-and-so is great and you're full of baloney! And so is your favorite skater, whoever that may be!"

To tell the truth, I think that Sarah is the least disliked of any recent elite level skater. Some people are neutral, some see technical flaws and areas for improvement in her presentation, but, really guys, what's not to like about this outstanding scholar/athlete and roll model.

Wait! Don't answer that!

Mathman

PS. Liberal, I don't think Joe meant any harm by his post. As an ardent fan of "one of the other three," I did not take any offense by it.

 

[Vash01]

statement about all fans.

To me, it is silly for anyone who was rooting for Irina or for Michelle in the Olympics to blame Sarah for anything. Sarah skated her best that night. Irina and Michelle didn't. End of story.

Mathman

I have not blamed Sarah for winning the OGM, although I was rooting for Michelle and Irina (either one would have made me happy). Sarah does not decide who gets the OGM. However, there were many flaws in her skating that were ignored by the judges. She did have two deductions in the SP and she was held up (4th place, over Maria B.). Irina should have been 1st in the SP (although it was a very close decision and I had no problem with Michelle's 1st place). Of course nobody knew at that time that it would make all the difference in the world.

I never cared for Sarah's skating. I don't have a personal dislike for her. She almost always landed the jumps, that's all. Normally landing the jumps would not have been enough to win the OGM, but the judges might have felt pressured to place her first, at that point, because she skated clean while the other two contenders did not.

Vash

 

[Mathman]

Well, what do I know? I had it Michelle, Irina, Sasha, Sarah, Maria in the short and Michelle, Sarah, Sasha, Irina in the long. On to Torino!

MM

 

[show 42]

Normally landing the jumps would not have been enough to win the OGM, but the judges might have felt pressured to place her first, at that point, because she skated clean while the other two contenders did not.

Vash......I initially thought that also, what with the mess and public outcry during the pairs competition, to not place a clean program first might have resulted in a riot!! 42

 

[liberal]

Vash......I initially thought that also, what with the mess and public outcry during the pairs competition, to not place a clean program first might have resulted in a riot!! 42

So you are saying your favorite could not win because the judges feared a riot. So the fear factor kept the “true” winner from claiming the Gold.

How about this, when the all the marks shook out Sarah came out on top. But I can see why this reason could be too simplistic because it leaves no room/reasons for the favorite not to claim the Gold. :sheesh:

FYI, I was not rooting for Sarah to win the Gold, but I will defend her against all the “Sour Grapes”.

 

[show 42]

Hi liberal..........just restating a theory that is not my own but one that circulated during the Olys. It's unusual but not unheard of for a skater to make a jump from fourth to first. All the stars have to be in "alignment", so to speak and the judges have to give you high enough marks to place you first. Sarah had the cleanest long program of the top five ladies, no doubt. She earned her win. No sour grapes here......42

 

[Tonichelle]

liberal... show has never had sour grapes towards Sarah... or any skater that I know of...

what I do know is that I was rooting for Sarah to kick some Kwan/Cohen/Slutskaya tooshie and win that night... BUT I also know that the judges were careful not to let THEIR favorite win(my guess would be Irina or MK... not sure which over all) if they didn't deserve it... with the IOC breathing down there necks it insured that the "right" person won that night... not saying she didn't deserve it... I'm saying without that she might not have.

 

[Vash01]

So you are saying your favorite could not win because the judges feared a riot. So the fear factor kept the “true” winner from claiming the Gold.

How about this, when the all the marks shook out Sarah came out on top. But I can see why this reason could be too simplistic because it leaves no room/reasons for the favorite not to claim the Gold. :sheesh:

FYI, I was not rooting for Sarah to win the Gold, but I will defend her against all the “Sour Grapes”.

Liberal,

There are no sour grapes for me; just an observation. As much as I like Michelle and Irina it does not affect my life whether they win or lose, so you need to stop using sarcastic phrases like 'your favorites'. Whether I like Michelle or Irina has nothing to do with my opinion of Sarah. In some ways I liked her as a young skater with a bright future. Some things about her skating bothered me (the posture- in a big way), regardless of what color medal she won. Mine is a different point of view from yours, that's all.

Normally that many judges may not have given first place marks to a skater lacking in maturity (yes, I will say that about Sarah) and having flawed jump technique (underroated jumps, flutz, etc.) SLC was a different case because of the negative publicity in the pairs event. An impression was created by our media that a clean performance must always win over one with a mistake. (we all know there have been numerous instances where a clean program is not enough to win). I cannot imagine the judges not feeling the pressure to place a clean performance higher than one with a mistake. Those 3 skates were very close, and I would have found a flaw with the decision no matter who won. IMO Sarah was held up in the SP or she would not have been in that position (to win). However, my opinion of Sarah's skating is independent of the results in SLC. It has nothing to do with who my favorites are or where they placed in the Olympics.

Vash

 

[gezando]

Thanks Hockeyfan for the informative details, now if Mathman will give a brief 5 sentence description of subsets and sets since someone in this thread confused the 2 , then we are set. (How can anyone confuse "some fans" a subset of the entire fandom, as the whole set, i.e. the entire fandom)

I hope you were able to see the broadcast of the New York City Ballet gala on PBS.

Misssed that too, oh well.

Le Sacre is generally considered un-choreographable; the music is too powerful to re-create in dance

and I am hoping Ben and Tanith will use it for their 2006 program, j/k.

You may already know, and this is off topic but there is a certain connection to ice and skating, since this opera is about Nagano

According to

www.FT.com

Music: Nagano, or Hockey in Opera, or The Island of Hockey-do
By Larry L Lash

As the Czech hockey team was losing its chance for a world championship last week, its operatic counterpart was scoring big at Prague’s Estates Theatre.

With subjects such as television reality shows providing fodder for contemporary opera, why not sports? Martin Smolka’s Nagano, an opera in three periods plus overtime, relates the Czechs’ victory at the Nagano Winter Olympics in 1998, having come near but never achieving the gold four times in 50 years.

As the future of opera remains hotly debated, Jerry Springer might pack them in on the West End, but it probably won’t send anyone rushing to Covent Garden.

Nagano, however, has virtually sold out its opening run in the theatre that hosted the world premiere of Don Giovanni, and plays to jersey-wearing, flag-waving fans who are so giddy from the experience, they might actually return for some Mozart.

The score, accessible while never pandering, suggests Benjamin Britten, Leonard Bernstein and John Adams.

Combined with Jaroslav Dusek’s and Smolka’s deliciously witty surrealist libretto and a delightfully wacky production by Ondrej Havelka and Borek Sipek, all the excitement, pain, glory, and utter absurdity of big league sports are conjured.

Six sweet and tender hooligans wearing padded muscle suits and sweatpants grunt nonsense syllables during their gym workout, eventually dancing up a Bob Fosse-esque storm including a parody of Swan Lake. A women’s choir gives voice to the ice rink.

Three crucial games are re-enacted by dancers with hip-hop moves, and a ballerina portraying a puck flashes her breasts to distract a demonic Canadian opponent.

Horrified when daydreaming Juan Antonio Samaranch passes him over at the medal ceremony, a team member faints and has a dream in which deified goalkeeper Dominik Hasek utrageously sung, entirely in Latin, by counter-tenor Jan Mikusek is given the crown jewels by Vaclav Havel.

All the members of the enormous cast are champions. The National Theatre knows a good thing. Nagano will return next season. Now, would Beckham be a tenor or a baritone?

Since I do not live in Prague, I missed this too.

I attended the premier of a new opera "Clara" on Clara Weick when I was visiting my cousins at university of MD at College Park last month.

Back to Sarah, I think the over criticism of her posture is unfair, her posture is OK. No one has Yuka Sato's perfect posture period. Carriage is just one of the many aspects of presentation. I thought her jumps at the Olympics were fully or close to fully rotated.

 

[hockeyfan228]

Music: Nagano, or Hockey in Opera, or The Island of Hockey-do
By Larry L Lash

Since I do not live in Prague, I missed this too.

Isn't that a hoot? I wish I had been able to travel to Prague for one of the performances. All performances sold out, too.

PBS may repeat the NYCB broadcast, so you may be able to catch it yet.

Hmm, imagine the music cuts Shpilband would make in "Le Sacre"...

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

One thing that can be said about Sarah. Her nonfans insist her jumps are flawed and underrotated. (No one else flutzes.) The nonfan of Sarah has difficulty to mention the name without saying underrotated jumps whether or not she actually did underrotate jumps. (No one else underrotates jumps.). It is written as if it were a litany.

Underrotating jumps is not a technique, it is an error. Any dumb judge can catch that and score accordingly. All skaters do underrotate jumps from time to time. In Sarah's case, those judges do not seem to see what her nonfans do.

Sarah Hughes is the 2002 Olympic Figure Skating Champion. There was no scandal; no tie; no flawed jumps. Live with it.

Joe

 

[Mathman]

...now if Mathman will give a brief 5 sentence description of subsets and sets...

Hi Gezando, I know you are saying this in a humorous way, but you are quite right that imprecise language can cause misunderstanding and hard feelings in discussions like this. There have been quite a few comments along the lines of, some Kwan fans say this, some Cohen fans do that. Quite true. And some, of course, don't.

Mathman

 

[gezando]

Originally posted by Mathman
Hi Gezando, I know you are saying this in a humorous way, but you are quite right that imprecise language can cause misunderstanding and hard feelings in discussions like this. There have been quite a few comments along the lines of, some Kwan fans say this, some Cohen fans do that. Quite true. And some, of course, don't.

Mathman

Well professor mathman, I requested you to explain the concept of subsets are not sets for 2 reasons. First someone in this thread attacked me by saying that I "attacked the entire Sasha fandome". In reality, I only reported some observations about "a Sasha fan" and "some Sasha fans". I am giving this poster the benefit of the doubt, maybe she confused subset as set. Second, I was in the mood of travelling down memory lane to appreciate my 6th grade math teacher Mrs. McR. In this thread, I mentioned some Sasha fans (subset) and was absolutely not attacking the entire Sasha fandome (the set). Anyways back to Mrs. McR, she was infinitely patient, because I was mathematically challenged. She took extra time to explain to me the concept re: a subset is not the same as a set. (Of course the rest of the class, i.e. the average 6th graders grasped the concept the very first time)

I am so glad you agree with me and use the same precise language that I used. You said some Sasha fans those were my exact words.

About humorous, ah... no one can beat the poet Roundboypete. I wonder if Pete will give us a poem? Maybe if you PM him, he will do us the honors.

 

[shdotz]

Sasha - Unpopular?

I didn't know she was unpopular.

There are a couple of things I don't particularly like:

1. She's already been slated as the next Gold - I've heard that so many times I could puke.

2. It was no coincidence that President Bush was standing next to her at the last Olympics; something about Sasha representing
something (cattle) in Texas. I don't like set-ups.

3. I get the impression that Sasha has been fed expectations that she must live up to; and it appears to me that she believes all the praise. Could it be that she's just plain scared?

4. She reminds me of Lapinski and I didn't like her presentation at all. I wish I could understand this, but I don't. Some things hit me as being phony.

5. If the next Olympics has already been "fixed" what's the point of even having a competition for ladies' skaters?

Am I being too bad about all of this?

sh

 

[Mathman]

Not too bad. Shdotz. But this thread is about Sarah, not Sasha, LOL.

MM

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

That's kind of a snide blanket statement don't you think?

Certainly not intended to be I should have used the term 'some' as in Some fans of the other three contenders, etc. Hope you can accept this apology.

However, I am one of many sportsminded people that do not believe the Oly Gold signifies "The Best in the World". It's a single night's competition, and anything can happen. It happens in all sports.

So, for me, when I continually read that the Oly Champ has underrotated jumps, it seems to me, that the fan is still frustrated over the loss of another skater in that competition.

Cheers - Joe.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

FYI, I was not rooting for Sarah to win the Gold, but I will defend her against all the “Sour Grapes”.

There you go. We can agree. I often come to defend Sarah against sour grapes. Michael Weiss, too and I am not a fan of either. I just respect all skaters - well, almost all.

Joe