- Joined
- Feb 17, 2007
I wouldn't rule out Katy ( age 20 ). She has done a disappearing act Houdini would be proud of, but I would like to see what she's been working on out of the public eye.
Will the 2010 U.S. ladies Olympic team be...
- Thread starter Mathman
- Start date
According to the other thread “Any information on the "International Challenge" ?”,
Caroline, Mirai and Rachael will take part in the following show.
3 girls may give off sparks each other to identify and sell themselves for the next Vancouver Olympics.
:yes: BTW, we should not count out BB (22).
She will also compete as the top US Lady representative among this team,
against Ando and Mao, the gold/silver medalist of 07World Championships.
USFSA must highly appreciate BB’s abilities and potentials.
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2005
This is how I see it:
Best best- Kimmie Meissner, Caroline Zhang. Not even totaly locks at this point, but best best to make it.
Pretty good shot- Mirai Nagasu, Rachael Flatt, Ashley Wagner. These people probably will have a reasonable shot at getting a spot but will also be in for quite a battle to make it.
Long shot- Sasha Cohen. If she even tries.
No shot- Emilly Hughes. The U.S will have far too much depth by then for a solid journeywomen skater to make it.
I since people who are counting Meissner out of the 2010 Olympic team are seriously underestimating her. I am not surprised many people are looking to write her off just because she was swept by the Asians at Worlds (something that always there was a good shot of happening for people who were being realists) since it seems people have often tried to sweep her under the rag. She is still a big time skater and competitor, and the up and comers will have a big enough challenge knocking her off as the #1 American, let alone off the Olympic team altogether.
Best best- Kimmie Meissner, Caroline Zhang. Not even totaly locks at this point, but best best to make it.
Pretty good shot- Mirai Nagasu, Rachael Flatt, Ashley Wagner. These people probably will have a reasonable shot at getting a spot but will also be in for quite a battle to make it.
Long shot- Sasha Cohen. If she even tries.
No shot- Emilly Hughes. The U.S will have far too much depth by then for a solid journeywomen skater to make it.
I since people who are counting Meissner out of the 2010 Olympic team are seriously underestimating her. I am not surprised many people are looking to write her off just because she was swept by the Asians at Worlds (something that always there was a good shot of happening for people who were being realists) since it seems people have often tried to sweep her under the rag. She is still a big time skater and competitor, and the up and comers will have a big enough challenge knocking her off as the #1 American, let alone off the Olympic team altogether.
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Personally, I think we should wait till next season before we assume who is a lock and who isn't.
Caroline so far is the most successful of the young guns so yes the USFSA prefers her. But what happens if let's say this year Ashley Wagner makes the Grand Prix finals, and Caroline doesn't.
Meanwhile Mirai wins JGPF, beats Caroline at Junior worlds, and next year also out performs Caroline on the Grand Prix. I have no doubt it that were to happen, Caroline would no longer be their favorite.
Then, there's Rachel Flatt and Kristine...
A lot of people want to make Caroline and Mirai into an American version of Yu na Kim and Mao Asada. But you know what I think that both Mao and Yu na were much stronger juniors than either Caroline or Mirai were. For example Mao had the triple axel. And Yu-na Kim had textbook jumps as a Junior. We didn't see Yu-na with wonky technique on her jumps or with underrotation problems. And Mao tends to only have issues underrotating that triple toe, which she doesn't need that much.
I personally don't think we can feel as confident about Mirai and Caroline as we can feel about Yu na and Mao as juniors. Don't get me wrong things can change, I am encouraged to see that Mirai tends to only get one jump downgraded in competition but in reality it's just way to early,
Caroline so far is the most successful of the young guns so yes the USFSA prefers her. But what happens if let's say this year Ashley Wagner makes the Grand Prix finals, and Caroline doesn't.
Meanwhile Mirai wins JGPF, beats Caroline at Junior worlds, and next year also out performs Caroline on the Grand Prix. I have no doubt it that were to happen, Caroline would no longer be their favorite.
Then, there's Rachel Flatt and Kristine...
A lot of people want to make Caroline and Mirai into an American version of Yu na Kim and Mao Asada. But you know what I think that both Mao and Yu na were much stronger juniors than either Caroline or Mirai were. For example Mao had the triple axel. And Yu-na Kim had textbook jumps as a Junior. We didn't see Yu-na with wonky technique on her jumps or with underrotation problems. And Mao tends to only have issues underrotating that triple toe, which she doesn't need that much.
I personally don't think we can feel as confident about Mirai and Caroline as we can feel about Yu na and Mao as juniors. Don't get me wrong things can change, I am encouraged to see that Mirai tends to only get one jump downgraded in competition but in reality it's just way to early,
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- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Kimmie Meissner Underestimated
What I gleaned from the fans of this Forum is that Kimmie receives much praise for her looks and outside activities. However, there is a substantial amount of criticism regarding her skating despite the fact that she is the 4th best skater from the 2007 Worlds having scored higher than 25 others out of a field of 30.
Kimmie is known to be slow starter 'out-of-the-gate' but shows much improvement along the way to Worlds. I think watching Kimmie at Skate America will be most interesting. If she wins (during her 'slow' period') then I contend that she will definitely be podium competitive by Worlds. If she does not win then I will look for any real improvements since Tokyo.
Joe
What I gleaned from the fans of this Forum is that Kimmie receives much praise for her looks and outside activities. However, there is a substantial amount of criticism regarding her skating despite the fact that she is the 4th best skater from the 2007 Worlds having scored higher than 25 others out of a field of 30.
Kimmie is known to be slow starter 'out-of-the-gate' but shows much improvement along the way to Worlds. I think watching Kimmie at Skate America will be most interesting. If she wins (during her 'slow' period') then I contend that she will definitely be podium competitive by Worlds. If she does not win then I will look for any real improvements since Tokyo.
Joe
If Kimmie beats Ando, than yeah I'd say she's a podium threat. However, personally? I don't think that Kimmie is third best in the world... This being said I don't think that Mirai or Caroline would do that much better against the top 3 than Kimmie would right. The reason I say that is Mirai/Mao and Yu na have stronger jumps than Kimmie, and well Mao and Yu na have much better presentation.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
True, but Mirai and Caroline won't have to compete with Mao and Yu-na for a place on the U.S. Olympic team.
No question, Kimmie is by far the closest to having a "lock" on one of the (presumably) three spots. But, as everyone keeps noting, it is way, way, way too early to make any guarantees. Will Kimmie's competitive drive be the same in 2010 as it was when she was an up-and-coming teen hotshot in 2006? For that matter, will she remain free of injuries?
To me, it is just amusing to speculate that it might (barely) be possible for the entire U.S. ladies team to be seventeen or younger at Vancouver. Would this be some kind of record? How old was Nicole Bobek when she was on the 1998 Olympic team with Tara (15) and Michelle (17)?
I agree but I think that's one of the biggest complaints against Meissner. That she's not the best in the world, if Meissner was on the podium this year, I think people would be more reticent to talk about her off the podium. Honestly, I'm not sure Meissner will be a lock because there are some talented youngsters.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Well, it’s no disgrace to be only the fourth best in the world, or even – perish the thought! – the fifth best. At the world level, the problem that all the other ladies face is quite simple – Mao Asada is on track to become one of the greatest skaters in history, and Yu-na Kim is right there beside her.
Still, I can’t wait to see what Meissner brings to the table this season.
Last year was kind of a “Sophomore slump” for Kimmie. She grew a little, lost a little of her technical edge, lost some consistency on her triple-triples. In an interview after worlds she said rather impatiently that the 2006-07 season was an “experiment” in which (reluctantly?) she tried to work on the presentation side of her skating, putting progress on technical consistency on the back burner.
She did show improvement in some second mark areas. But the bottom line remains, miss your triple-triples, miss the podium.
About the "talented youngsters", I hope Rachael Flatt makes an impressive showing in the Junior Grand Prix. She was caught in the middle last year. She missed the whole JGP season because of an early injury (she was expected to challenge Caroline Z at Mexico City), and then she skated in seniors at Nationals (5th place
), which left her on the outside for both Junior and Senior Worlds.
Rachael does not have as enthusiastic a fan base yet as Caroline or Mirai, but anything can happen!
Still, I can’t wait to see what Meissner brings to the table this season.
Last year was kind of a “Sophomore slump” for Kimmie. She grew a little, lost a little of her technical edge, lost some consistency on her triple-triples. In an interview after worlds she said rather impatiently that the 2006-07 season was an “experiment” in which (reluctantly?) she tried to work on the presentation side of her skating, putting progress on technical consistency on the back burner.
She did show improvement in some second mark areas. But the bottom line remains, miss your triple-triples, miss the podium.
About the "talented youngsters", I hope Rachael Flatt makes an impressive showing in the Junior Grand Prix. She was caught in the middle last year. She missed the whole JGP season because of an early injury (she was expected to challenge Caroline Z at Mexico City), and then she skated in seniors at Nationals (5th place
), which left her on the outside for both Junior and Senior Worlds.Rachael does not have as enthusiastic a fan base yet as Caroline or Mirai, but anything can happen!
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Mathman, I agree no disagrace to be fifth best in the world, but I think that US fans are a bit spoiled. I mean we are use to having at least one Mao or Yu-na skating for us.
As for Rachael, well she did okay in her debut, but Kristine M actually placed quite a bit ahead of her in the short program. From what I saw, I like Kristine a lot, there's a nice lyrical quality to her skating. Her skating is athletic but really graceful.
I think the issue with Rachael, is I don't think she really has "It".. She's very slow on the ice and she doesn't draw your attention like Caroline does, Kristine does, or Mirai does.
As for Rachael, well she did okay in her debut, but Kristine M actually placed quite a bit ahead of her in the short program. From what I saw, I like Kristine a lot, there's a nice lyrical quality to her skating. Her skating is athletic but really graceful.
I think the issue with Rachael, is I don't think she really has "It".. She's very slow on the ice and she doesn't draw your attention like Caroline does, Kristine does, or Mirai does.
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- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Thanks for the reminder. The Vienna JGP event is going on right now! Go Kristine!
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
So stronger jumps 3 years down the road will only be Mao and YuNa? Is that correct?
How is the 'best' judged at this point in time?
I think it best to quantify US fans by a 'Some'. Some of them have been quite outspoken for Irina to win over Michelle over the years. Now many are split over Mao v. YuNa. US fans are more diversified than fans of other countries, imo.
Joe
Yes, I think that Mao and Yu-na will have stronger jumps 3 years from now. I could be wrong but both girls have probably just about finished puberty, and both girls are technically stronger jump wise than Caroline, Mirai, or KImmie...And if you say it's unfair to compare Mirai or Caroline to Mao and Yu-na now, I'm not not just looking at the picture now, I'm also looking at Mao and Yu-na when they were younger. Both Mirai and Caroline have some technical problems with their jumps, and Kimmie has never been as consistent on her 3/3's as Mao and Yu-na have been.
Sure things can change, but I don't think neither girl Mirai or Caroline is as strong technicallly as the current front runners. Here's my point if Mirai has issues underrotating jumps, what happens when she grows some more.. And if Caroline's entrance into her jumps maybe fine now but what happens when she grows more as well, hits puberty? I like Caroline, and I love Mirai but their jumps aren't nearly as sound as Mao's, Yu-na's, or Miki's.
As for the best in the world, of course fourth place is great, but you cannot tell me that fourth place is what the United States is use too... The last time the United States had not finished on the podium was 93 /94? And I do think that it's perfectly resonable to say that Kimmie isn't in the top 3 in the world, when Kimmie didn't make GPF this season. Miki Ando hasn't lost to Kimmie since the Olympics, Mao Asada has lost one match to Kimmie her entire career, and Kimmie has never managed to beat Yu-na.
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- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
You are comparing the future with the present. That's ok for you but not for me.
You seem to be saying that Sarah Hughes was theBEST skater, not only that night she won the Olys, but her entire career. Am I correct?
Hmmm. Julia Sebestyen and Sarah Meier made the GPF last year. Did that make them top skaters? Sarah was 7th at Worlds, Julia 12th.
Nakano didn't make the final either, and she finished ahead of both Sarah and Julia at Worlds. In fact, Yukari has finished in the top 6 at Worlds two years in a row now. IMO, she ranks higher than either Julia or Sarah because she is consistent.
I don't think making the GPF is indicative of how good a skater is or his/her rank in the World. Sometimes skaters get lucky in their assignments, sometimes they don't.
Nakano didn't make the final either, and she finished ahead of both Sarah and Julia at Worlds. In fact, Yukari has finished in the top 6 at Worlds two years in a row now. IMO, she ranks higher than either Julia or Sarah because she is consistent.
I don't think making the GPF is indicative of how good a skater is or his/her rank in the World. Sometimes skaters get lucky in their assignments, sometimes they don't.
absolutely no one is a lock for the 2010 US team. Not even Meissner. I still say it's way too early to tell. HOWEVER, the front runners (as of today) continue to be Meissner and Hughes. Remember that Zhang and Nagasu haven't even done senior nats yet, so it's premature to talk about them as OT contenders.
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- Mar 28, 2005
Hughes is not a frontrunner to make the 2010 Olympic team even today. Except for when there is an injury (eg-Kwan in 2006) a good journeywomen skater who has almost zero chance of ever winning a World medal does not make a U.S Olympic team. That is just the kind of depth they have. That is what Hughes is, she has very little shot of making the 2010 team, and that is pretty safe to say even now.
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- Mar 28, 2005
As for Meissner being the closest to a sure bet, I conceded she wasnt a total lock, but she is and Zhang are still the more likely bets to get spots at this point in time. I dont see what is hard to see about that. Yes alot can change, but at this point in time those 2 are the most probable bets clearly.
How often has it happened that a skater clearly entrenched as the best U.S skater and one of the best in the World in the first year of a quadrennial, continue to the next Olympics and not even make the team. The only one I can think of is Tiffany Chin who in 1985 was established as clearly the leading American, and was one of the best in the World coming 3rd at Worlds that year. However in the coming years Thomas, Kadavy, Trenary, all passed her by one at a time, and she didnt even bother going to the 88 U.S Nationals to try and qualify, instead signing on an ice show in fall of 87.
How often has it happened that a skater clearly entrenched as the best U.S skater and one of the best in the World in the first year of a quadrennial, continue to the next Olympics and not even make the team. The only one I can think of is Tiffany Chin who in 1985 was established as clearly the leading American, and was one of the best in the World coming 3rd at Worlds that year. However in the coming years Thomas, Kadavy, Trenary, all passed her by one at a time, and she didnt even bother going to the 88 U.S Nationals to try and qualify, instead signing on an ice show in fall of 87.
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Heck, Arakawa didn't make the final the year she won the Olympics. Two bronze medals didn't do it, even though she was second in the long at both events.
No, I'm talking about the US Nats ONLY. It's safe to say Hughes is a solid 2nd here in this country, topped only by Meissner. Heck, had she not fallen she might have even pulled off the upset. Guess who was 3rd? Someone who lucked out with the performance of her life.
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