Women's programs outside of the box | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Women's programs outside of the box

In the 70s-80s-very early 90s a lot of long programs were total mashups. Common, or common-er, then, but it would be out of the box now. Tonya Harding's 90-91 long to Batman-Send in the Clowns-Wild Thing sounds insane - but for me, it worked. Maybe that's too far outside the box now, but could be the seed of something that could be tried today. Have a look at that program if you've never watched it; even the Send in the Clowns part is done with choreo that suggests sweeping emotion but isn't really too princess-y at all. Nothing one-note about that program, either - which I feel a lot of programs are today.

eta link, I was in a hurry this morning when I posted:

www.youtube.com

Tonya Harding 1991 Nationals LP

Tonya Harding performs her LP at the 1991 Nationals in Minneapolis MN. She made history with this program by being the first US woman to land the triple axel...
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CaroLiza_fan said:
Be careful what you wish for.

I have just watched a Chicks level girl at the Icebeat Winter Trophy skating to "Je T'Aime...Moi Non Plus" by Jane Birkin and Serge Gainsbourg.

It is definitely an outside the box choice. But it is definitely not appropriate for a skater of that age (or probably any age!) to be skating to.

It was very uncomfortable to watch a little girl skating to the sound of, well, you know.

CaroLiza_fan
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lol, that's definitely not what I meant, though... that's more a variation of the stereotype
 
Sonja Hilmer currently seems to push the sport in a new direction.. I loved her skates at Nationals.. look forward to see what she will try next😁.
A couple of clips from On Ice Perspectives

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youtu.be

"Some rules can be bent. Others, broken. ð¥" Sonja Hilmer performs her 2024 "Matrix" Short Program

Sonja Hilmer debuts her new 2024 Senior Short Program to âClubbed to Deathâ from The Matrix Soundtrack by Rob Dougan.Choreography by Sonja Hilmer. She is coa...
youtu.be youtu.be
 
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icewhite said:
It's difficult to define for me without sounding derogatory, because obviously I have my opinion on this.
I mostly mean the ice princess stuff. There's the sweet delicate flower ice princess, the elegant ice princess, the sexy little thing ice princess. Then there's also the fiery woman with a temper à la Carmen, and the hot sexy athlete in shades of orientalism or pop dance music, and of course, who could forget, the plagued soul, which is also very common in the male version though, skating to wheepy music. Then we have the cute little childlike girl, that one's a bit rarer, and the cheeky jazzy burlesque dancer which might just be a sub-category of the sexy little thing or something in between.
Of course all of that often requires strong sportive abilities, and I am not against most of these programs per se if they are some among others. But programs I want to see more are those which display a strong, powerful, quirky image, maybe to rock music, maybe to dance music, maybe to horror movie soundtracks, representing original characters, telling interesting stories - maybe with a more straightforward, sportive elegance, not focusing on being delicate, not focusing on being sexy.
I just want to see a range of images, more like in men's - I will still complain about the programs in men's and the many warhorses, but there are more different characters and there is a broad range of viril/feminine, while in women's I will watch a competition and get 90% delicate/sexy/wheepy. More delicate if it's Asian, more sexy if it's European, more wheepy if it's North American.

Sorry for the stereotypes. I don't mean to be as mean as this comes across. I'm just despairing and thinking no wonder so many girls and their families want nothing to do with figure skating and rather choose hockey.

But as we can see in this thread, there are some great original programs for women, too!
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The thing is if you will ask yourself what would be the best program ever, it will be ala princess/ice queen to ballad and its the same in mens as well.It is much easier to feel yourself in and it is easier to do body movement + more things like spirals/ina bauer things are much more suitable for ballad type of music.So it's obvious we are seeing 80% of this type of programs.But there are people for example like Loena which stand with her type of programs that are energetic/sexy and are really good aswell.I don't want to see her doing princess style because it will be complete opposite of what she is.Interesting case is Amber Glenn where her short programs is fantastic and suit her 100% when in the free program she is trying to be princess which she isn't for sure.
Worth remember a lot figure skating comes from ballet right?So it is also the point

So if you summary everything,it is obvious you will see more ballad/princess type of womens especially when they are learning to skate and starting to know herself in young age.Personally i think it's good to try something more energetic once in few years to trying change and not get bored,but overall this is the style for skating and it's beauty.Of course a lot came from your personal preference,but it is what is it.

As a different programs for this year Hana Yoshida short is perfect one no?It is change of styles for sure.

That's my opinion,but I am watching FS for two years so it's still fresh perspective.
 
Kaori Sakamoto's No More Fight Left In Me

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I'm aware the program got mixed reviews, but it is one of my favourite women's programs and it kind of fits into this thread on multiple levels.
 
I often find ballet boring, and quite often too obsessed with position while ignoring the power of rhythm and movement. it is one reason I seldom am much of a fan of the women's discipline - often derivative of ballet, and not even in a good way. Occasionally, there is a woman that moves to a different tune and beat, and then I will start watching again. In this era of Kaori, Loena, and Amber, I actually watch from time to time!
 
LazyFuzai said:
The thing is if you will ask yourself what would be the best program ever, it will be ala princess/ice queen to ballad and its the same in mens as well.It is much easier to feel yourself in and it is easier to do body movement + more things like spirals/ina bauer things are much more suitable for ballad type of music.So it's obvious we are seeing 80% of this type of programs.But there are people for example like Loena which stand with her type of programs that are energetic/sexy and are really good aswell.I don't want to see her doing princess style because it will be complete opposite of what she is.Interesting case is Amber Glenn where her short programs is fantastic and suit her 100% when in the free program she is trying to be princess which she isn't for sure.
Worth remember a lot figure skating comes from ballet right?So it is also the point

So if you summary everything,it is obvious you will see more ballad/princess type of womens especially when they are learning to skate and starting to know herself in young age.Personally i think it's good to try something more energetic once in few years to trying change and not get bored,but overall this is the style for skating and it's beauty.Of course a lot came from your personal preference,but it is what is it.

As a different programs for this year Hana Yoshida short is perfect one no?It is change of styles for sure.

That's my opinion,but I am watching FS for two years so it's still fresh perspective.
Click to expand...

I am not sure that the ballet tradition is the answer. Also for me Loena especially this year is mostly a modern version of a certain standard female packaging - in that case the sexy seducer.
If it comes from ballet, why do we get to see so many different types of packaging and choreo for men?
And when we get a real ballet program for men, like Kolyada's White Crow, it is possible to present the skater there as a beautiful, fluent, but also strong person - subtlety yes, but no fragile delicacy.
There are especially a few typical women's choreo movements that rub be the wrong way, like when they tilt their head to the side a bit and put their hand to their neck or face, at best with a suffering or devoted facial expression - sometimes it really fits the program, but why is that such a standard choreo moment for women?

I love Hana Yoshida's short this season btw, but as much as I appreciate the fresh music choice, I'm not sure it's soo very different in terms of packaging/image.

I also named Bonaly's 4 seasons in the beginning... it's surely not an original music choice, but she just did not fit in the typical female movement/choreo style, so that's why I chose her. There are surely different ways of being different. :)
 
Rikku said:
The first one I thought of was Katarina Witt's SP (technical program back then iirc) in Lillehammer, portraying Robin Hood, not a female character
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I would also include her free skate from that year. More feminine presentation, but the subject matter and body movements are not typical ladies' skating:
www.youtube.com

[HD] Katarina Witt - 1994 Lillehammer Olympic - Free Skating

Katarina Witt - Where have all the flowers gone?ÐаÑаÑина ÐиÑÑ - Ðде вÑе ÑвеÑÑ ÑÑлиã«ã¿ãªãã»ã´ã£ãã - è±ã¯ã©ãã¸è¡ã£ãKatarina Witt - Sag Mir Wo Die Blumen Sind[HD] 1994 Lil...
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com
 
icewhite said:
lol, that's definitely not what I meant, though... that's more a variation of the stereotype
Click to expand...

:laugh:

Actually, there was a programme that immediately came to mind when I read your original post for this thread. It is probably my favourite programme of this season, and it is by one of my kids. (And no, that has nothing to do with why I like it. There have been plenty of programmes by my kids that I haven't liked...)

Unfortunately, I can't post it here for 3 reasons:

  1. There are no individual videos of the programme on YouTube.
  2. The sound quality is awful on the archived livestream of the event where she did her second highest scoring performance of the programme. (The highest scoring performance was 2 days ago, but that event was on a pay stream).
  3. The skater is only 10 years old.

The programme is to "Bloody Mary" by Lady Gaga. And I just love the whole concept of the programme. I don't know how to describe it. It kinda reminds me in a way of "Thriller", but without the zombies. 🚫 🧟‍♂️ 🧟‍♀️ 🚫 And with a girl in a black lace mourning dress instead of Michael Jackson in a red jacket! ;) :laugh:

I saw an even younger girl skate to a different version of the same song this morning, and the same concept was used for it (although, with a different style of mourning dress). And although the singing wasn't as good as Lady Gaga's (it reminded me of 🐿️ The Chipettes! :laugh: ), it was an enjoyable programme too.

I may not be a fan of horror films, but I love dark / spooky programmes.

CaroLiza_fan
 
Oh, remember Gracie Gold's Gershwin Three Preludes short program with the black and white costume and sophisticated downswept hairstyle that soon enough got scrapped for a classic princessy blue dress and Grieg program when she got to Frank Carroll? To me, that exemplifies the attitude that the women must be some variant of ice princess. The Gershwin to me was edgy and modern, with sharp, staccato choreo.
 
dorispulaski said:
I often find ballet boring, and quite often too obsessed with position while ignoring the power of rhythm and movement. it is one reason I seldom am much of a fan of the women's discipline - often derivative of ballet, and not even in a good way.
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I think ballet music is often rhythmic, though probably more for group dances than for female solos or pas de deux.

I also have enjoyed some ballet programs where the skater has made a detailed effort to translate ballet movement to the ice, rather than just scattering a few random gestures with not much going on in between. Those would fall into the OP's categories of "typical" female programs -- just better realized than other programs to similar music with less choreography.

But I especially enjoy when skaters use powerful skating to powerful ballet music by, e.g., portraying powerful/quirky birds directly through the skating movement rather than imitating ballerinas imitating birds.

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191K views · 5.1K reactions | We asked which program gives you the "biggest feels" and you answered (hundreds of times). Here is one of your favorites, Gracie Gold's winning "Firebird" free skate from the 2016 U.S. Figure Skating Championships. #US

We asked which program gives you the "biggest feels" and you answered (hundreds of times). Here is one of your favorites, Gracie Gold's winning "Firebird" free skate from the 2016 U.S. Figure...
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2018 OG 08 L-LP Kaetlyn Osmond - Swanlake Tchaikovsky NBC no commentary

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gkelly said:
I think ballet music is often rhythmic, though probably more for group dances than for female solos or pas de deux.

I also have enjoyed some ballet programs where the skater has made a detailed effort to translate ballet movement to the ice, rather than just scattering a few random gestures with not much going on in between. Those would fall into the OP's categories of "typical" female programs -- just better realized than other programs to similar music with less choreography.

But I especially enjoy when skaters use powerful skating to powerful ballet music by, e.g., portraying powerful/quirky birds directly through the skating movement rather than imitating ballerinas imitating birds.

www.facebook.com

191K views · 5.1K reactions | We asked which program gives you the "biggest feels" and you answered (hundreds of times). Here is one of your favorites, Gracie Gold's winning "Firebird" free skate from the 2016 U.S. Figure Skating Championships. #US

We asked which program gives you the "biggest feels" and you answered (hundreds of times). Here is one of your favorites, Gracie Gold's winning "Firebird" free skate from the 2016 U.S. Figure...
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www.youtube.com

2018 OG 08 L-LP Kaetlyn Osmond - Swanlake Tchaikovsky NBC no commentary

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Click to expand...
Yes, you are describing much better than I did the type of program I meant when I said "often derivative of ballet, and not even in a good way."

Kolyada's White Crow is a great translation of ballet to the ice. IMO Levito 's White Crow is the other kind
 
I like Yoshida's and Watanabe's SPs this year.

Obviously, Josephine's Joker was classic of nontraditional choices.

I think Trusova' Drakarys was a determining program for her that showed her off as a person.

Personally, I am always looking for less mellow dirges in the line-up.
 
Haein Lee's "Sirens" SP really stood out to me this season, with the unusual music choice and unique choreography.


Continuing with the water theme, this 2021/22 FS from Hana Yoshida was really memorable: Armand Amar, "Planet Ocean Suite", choreo by Lori Nichol. The music, the costume, the movement matched the theme so perfectly, it was mesmerising:


Bonus: the suite itself, performed by Angèle Dubeau & La Pietà: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cue4UwyeSFw
 
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