Writing a story about figure skating!

[ice coverage]

Right, but because of this firm commitment, they'd be making a commitment to either discipline.
Ooh thank you for the names! I'll look them up. The only one I know is Kristi (of course).

BTW, an FYI b/c you love ice dance:

Charlie White was a singles skater up until the junior level -- at the same time that he was ice dancing with Meryl Davis.​

And please note:

GS has members from all over the world -- so if you are from the U.S., it was not obvious.
And it was not obvious that your characters will be from the U.S., until you said so today.​

 

[maybelletea]

BTW, an FYI b/c you love ice dance:

Charlie White was a singles skater up until the junior level -- at the same time that he was ice dancing with Meryl Davis.​

And please note:

GS has members from all over the world -- so if you are from the U.S., it was not obvious.
And it was not obvious that your characters will be from the U.S.​

Yeah, I wasn't expecting it to be obvious to anyone...? I didn't think it was detrimental to the information I was needing. Like, I didn't think I had to state that I'm from the U.S. and these are American figure skaters.
Remember, first time posting on here... go easy on me lol.

Oh and interesting! I love Charlie and Meryl...

 

[ice coverage]

Yeah, I wasn't expecting it to be obvious to anyone...? I didn't think it was detrimental to the information I was needing. Like, I didn't think I had to state that I'm from the U.S. and these are American figure skaters.
Remember, first time posting on here... go easy on me lol.

Oh and interesting! I love Charlie and Meryl...

Another name, if you are interested:

Jonah Barrett won both novice Men and intermediate Pairs at 2015 U.S. Nats.​

About being American:

You answered, "U.S.!" with an exclamation point, when I asked whether your characters will skate for the U.S. The exclamation point seemed to be equivalent to saying, "Duh!" -- as if I were asking a stupid question. Maybe that wasn't your intention. But people are trying to help you here, so please go easy on us.

The reason the nationality of your characters is relevant to your questions in this thread is that some countries are much weaker in ice dance than others (as you prob. know). If your characters were skating for Japan, for example, taking up ice dance at an older age (with the Olympics as their goal) would not seem as implausible (to me) as it would be if they were skating for the U.S.​

 

[maybelletea]

Another name, if you are interested:

Jonah Barrett won both novice Men and intermediate Pairs at 2015 U.S. Nats.​

About being American:

You answered, "U.S.!" with an exclamation point, when I asked whether your characters will skate for the U.S. The exclamation point seemed to be equivalent to saying, "Duh!" -- as if I were asking a stupid question. Maybe that wasn't your intention. But people are trying to help you here, so please go easy on us.

The reason the nationality of your characters is relevant to your questions in this thread is that some countries are much weaker in ice dance than others (as you prob. know). If your characters were skating for Japan, for example, taking up ice dance at an older age would not seem as implausible (to me) as it would be if they were skating for the U.S.​

It wasn't meant to have a duh connotation. It was just meant to be me saying... oh yeah, I should say where they're from.

 

[karne]

Not a US example, but three of the four Australian Dodds brothers - Matthew, Jordan, and Ryan - skate pairs as well as singles.

At 2012 JGP Jordan distinguished himself by skating men's singles and pairs the same day.

 

[maybelletea]

Not a US example, but three of the four Australian Dodds brothers - Matthew, Jordan, and Ryan - skate pairs as well as singles.

At 2012 JGP Jordan distinguished himself by skating men's singles and pairs the same day.

Any examples are good. Thank you! That's super impressive. I might have them do pairs and singles, not necessarily singles all the time though since pairs is their main focus for the Olympics...

OR on the other hand, they could be pairs skaters that switched to ice dance at age 16... it just depends on what direction I want to go. I think I'm torn because ice dance tends to be so beautifully emotional and romantic. But of course, pairs skating can be, too... I definitely want that emotional, artistic factor to be very prevalent in their skating.

 

[maybelletea]

Agreed. I think it's plausible to make one switch (ice dance to pairs, from what I'm gathering?), and still improve enough to make the Olympics.

As for height difference, it's difficult for a modern-day pairs team to have only three inches between them. However, if he has very good upper body strength, I can buy it. (The key point here isn't whether it's possible in reality, but whether it's plausible to the reader).

So I think I am going to cut out ice dance as a competitive possibility for them. But I do want the three inch height difference to be realistic because of his upper body strength and her light frame.

The only famous Olympian pair skaters I could find that have a height difference of about 3 inches are Tai Babilonia and Randy Gardner.

 

[maybelletea]

Maybe I'll start out with a 2 inch difference at ages 16, and the difference grows to about 3.5 inches, making them about Tai and Randy difference wise.

But I do want it to be plausible that a coach would have them keep going with pairs despite the small height difference. I'm just worried about the injury side of things.

 

[maybelletea]

So maybe I should have them be ice dancers rather than pair skaters...? Why am I so indecisive...

Would it be possible for someone to do ice dance and single skating at the same time, if they had previously competed in singles or pairs and ice dancing was the new thing to them?

 

[salchowx4]

You can do both single and ice dance, sure, but at a certain point, a skater has to choose. Charlie White has already been mentioned. He did both up to the junior level, then totally focused everything on dance, which was the smart move for someone with his particular skill set.

The problem you're going to have, I think, is that your character can't realistically go from total newbie to OGM in ice dance in a short period of time no matter how strong his or her skate skills and musicality are from his singles training. Ice dancing is very difficult and complicated these days.

 

[loopy]

It would be fun if they did ice dance as little kids and didn't like each other but were reacquainted while joining on the first US Synchro team that qualified for the Olympics and fell in hate and sabotage and then love on the road to qualifying. Cutting edge I tell you!

 

[karne]

Any examples are good. Thank you! That's super impressive. I might have them do pairs and singles, not necessarily singles all the time though since pairs is their main focus for the Olympics...

OR on the other hand, they could be pairs skaters that switched to ice dance at age 16... it just depends on what direction I want to go. I think I'm torn because ice dance tends to be so beautifully emotional and romantic. But of course, pairs skating can be, too... I definitely want that emotional, artistic factor to be very prevalent in their skating.

I want to add, while I do admire them very much, the Australian pairs teams are....uncompetitive. And they don't do triple anything (mostly because the girls can't, not because the boys can't). So it's not really an appropriate metaphor, just an example.

It would be fun if they did ice dance as little kids and didn't like each other but were reacquainted while joining on the first US Synchro team that qualified for the Olympics and fell in hate and sabotage and then love on the road to qualifying. Cutting edge I tell you!

If you want to write that story, go ahead, but it is the height of rudeness to totally hijack an author's storyline like that.

 

[maybelletea]

It would be fun if they did ice dance as little kids and didn't like each other but were reacquainted while joining on the first US Synchro team that qualified for the Olympics and fell in hate and sabotage and then love on the road to qualifying. Cutting edge I tell you!

Well, no... That's not happening lol. Believe me, I've been developing this story for a long time now, and the characters are solidified in their development in the beginning of the story.
Right now it's just deciding what disciplines they actually make it to the Olympics in.

They have a bit of an initial dislike for each other because of bad first impressions in middle school and they don't know each other. But once they actually meet through skating in high school, they become best friends (eventually a couple).

 

[maybelletea]

You can do both single and ice dance, sure, but at a certain point, a skater has to choose. Charlie White has already been mentioned. He did both up to the junior level, then totally focused everything on dance, which was the smart move for someone with his particular skill set.

The problem you're going to have, I think, is that your character can't realistically go from total newbie to OGM in ice dance in a short period of time no matter how strong his or her skate skills and musicality are from his singles training. Ice dancing is very difficult and complicated these days.

For sure- someone suggested I have Ira have a background in ice dance (as well as singles), and Noelle a background in ballroom dancing that she then translates onto the ice. I mean, obviously two different animals, but I think it would help.

I need to just make up my mind between ice dance and pair skating...

 

[maybelletea]

Okay, I'm pretty darn sure I've decided on ice dancing to be their main competitive discipline. I think I actually made up my mind LOL.

Thank you for all your input, everyone!

 

[karne]

For sure- someone suggested I have Ira have a background in ice dance (as well as singles), and Noelle a background in ballroom dancing that she then translates onto the ice. I mean, obviously two different animals, but I think it would help.

Every time I think you're getting a grasp of it you say something else to make me shake my head.

Just because someone can dance on the floor, does NOT mean they can skate, and certainly would not make them Olympic standard.

 

[Buttercup]

maybelletea, take a step back. At the moment it seems like you are nowhere near writing anything in terms of research or figuring out the plotting. karne pointing this out wasn't rude; it may have been blunt, but she is doing you a favor in terms of helping you see where you stand.

Try and put together an outline or a short synopsis of the story you want to tell. Other than names and heights (unrealistic ones, IMO*) for your characters, what do you have at the moment? You need to immerse yourself in skating to a greater extent if you want to anchor your writing in a believable context. I'd suggest checking out Jennifer Comeaux's books; I haven't read them myself, but she knows her skating and it might give you some ideas of how an author can put together a plot revolving around competitive skating.

With regard to skating in multiple disciplines:
- Jessica Dube, Meagan Duhamel, Vanessa Crone and Paul Poirier all competed at the national level as singles skaters and in some cases internationally as well. Dube was 6th in singles and a silver medalist in pairs at 2008 Canadian Nationals, a couple of months before Dube/Davison medalled at Worlds. In 2003, Dube won the pairs event and medalled in the ladies event at JGP Mexico. A year later, she again won two medals, this time at JGP China. Duhamel won & medalled at 2005 Golden Spin - check out who she beat in the ladies event! Pretty impressive. Poirier medalled at the novice and junior level nationally before turning his focus entirely to ice dance.
- Charlie White has already been mentioned, and if I'm not mistaken he was the first US skater to get L4 on his footwork in national competition. Johnny Weir competed in pairs at the juvenile and intermediate level while also doing singles, but then decided to focus on singles. Jeremy Abbott competed at lower levels in dance and pairs in addition to singles, though he never did dance and pairs at the same time.
- I think Stefania Berton did dance and singles at the same time as a novice, then just singles, and then just pairs. Her ice dance partner, Marco Fabbri, did dance-singles-back to dance.

* Babilonia/Gardner skated in a different era. Even in ice dance, you'll usually see at least a four inch height difference. A coach with a team that had a two inch height difference would most likely encourage them to look for new partners.

 

[maybelletea]

Every time I think you're getting a grasp of it you say something else to make me shake my head.

Just because someone can dance on the floor, does NOT mean they can skate, and certainly would not make them Olympic standard.

Right, but she DOES have a heavy background in skating...? Someone else suggested having a background in dancing to make the transition understandable. I think it will be plausible to start ice dance at age 16 or so.

 

[maybelletea]

maybelletea, take a step back. At the moment it seems like you are nowhere near writing anything in terms of research or figuring out the plotting. karne pointing this out wasn't rude; it may have been blunt, but she is doing you a favor in terms of helping you see where you stand.

Try and put together an outline or a short synopsis of the story you want to tell. Other than names and heights (unrealistic ones, IMO*) for your characters, what do you have at the moment? You need to immerse yourself in skating to a greater extent if you want to anchor your writing in a believable context. I'd suggest checking out Jennifer Comeaux's books; I haven't read them myself, but she knows her skating and it might give you some ideas of how an author can put together a plot revolving around competitive skating.

With regard to skating in multiple disciplines:
- Jessica Dube, Meagan Duhamel, Vanessa Crone and Paul Poirier all competed at the national level as singles skaters and in some cases internationally as well. Dube was 6th in singles and a silver medalist in pairs at 2008 Canadian Nationals, a couple of months before Dube/Davison medalled at Worlds. In 2003, Dube won the pairs event and medalled in the ladies event at JGP Mexico. A year later, she again won two medals, this time at JGP China. Duhamel won & medalled at 2005 Golden Spin - check out who she beat in the ladies event! Pretty impressive. Poirier medalled at the novice and junior level nationally before turning his focus entirely to ice dance.
- Charlie White has already been mentioned, and if I'm not mistaken he was the first US skater to get L4 on his footwork in national competition. Johnny Weir competed in pairs at the juvenile and intermediate level while also doing singles, but then decided to focus on singles. Jeremy Abbott competed at lower levels in dance and pairs in addition to singles, though he never did dance and pairs at the same time.
- I think Stefania Berton did dance and singles at the same time as a novice, then just singles, and then just pairs. Her ice dance partner, Marco Fabbri, did dance-singles-back to dance.

* Babilonia/Gardner skated in a different era. Even in ice dance, you'll usually see at least a four inch height difference. A coach with a team that had a two inch height difference would most likely encourage them to look for new partners.

It actually is rude to tell someone they "shouldn't" be writing something they don't know enough about. That IS what research is for. I literally wouldn't be here otherwise. I'm not looking for a huge backlash because I don't have enough figured out... I came here because I know I don't have enough figured out. It's not like I'm publishing anything and calling it true to how skating works. I love figure skating and want my story to be true to it.

Anyway, I do have a lot at the moment in terms of personality, story, etc. This is for me figuring out the technical aspects of the story, rather than the character-driven plot points. I linked the gallery once before: http://maybelletea.deviantart.com/gallery/45819531/Figure-Skating-Story

But that's partially the point- their success with their lack of height difference makes them unusual, and in a few years when they're in elite skating, they'd be close to a 4" difference. I want that to be a small point in the story. It seems like they wouldn't work as well together because of that, and the coach would probably think about pairing them with other people, but they end up being very good partners. Also, because they're fairly young, the coach I think is assuming Ira may grow a bit, and Noelle has stopped growing.

I think it can be realistic with the right amount of planning. I am okay with it being unlikely.

Oh gosh I would say more but I have to run to class. Thanks for the names, that really helps in terms of research.

 

[Buttercup]

Right, but she DOES have a heavy background in skating...? Someone else suggested having a background in dancing to make the transition understandable. I think it will be plausible to start ice dance at age 16 or so.

It is not plausible for a skater from one of the major skating countries to start ice dance so late and become successful. In real life, unlike a Cutting Edge sequel, the competition is too fierce. There are examples of skaters who switched at a relatively late age, but typically they represent smaller countries where there is considerably less competition for assignments - which allows them time to develop.

To give you some idea of the timeline for such a transition: Sara Hurtado and Adria Diaz, both former singles skaters, switched to ice dance in 2008 at the ages of 15 and 17. As Spain's first ice dance team ever, they were sent to international junior events within months. The results were not pretty at first, but they kept at it and got better. Hurtado/Diaz finished 13th in Sochi and moved up to 5th at this year's Euros. They have medalled at smaller events, but never at the GP level or higher.

As for top dance teams: in Sochi, the gold and silver medal dance teams had been together since 1997. Bronze medalists I/K had a shorter partnership, but both had a solid ice dance background. P/B who finished 4th and B/S who were fifth had been together since 2000.

What you're proposing is to give your skaters two challenges (late start, small height difference). For people not into skating, this won't even register as an issue, so it's not interesting. For skating fans, it makes your setup implausible. I understand that you are attached to both of these things, but I don't think they will serve your story well.

Almost every skater has dance training, lots of it in some cases. It would not make anyone stand out and cannot replace the skills you develop in terms of skating. What you could do is give one of your characters a background in roller skating, like Matteo Guarise, in which case I'd recommend making them pairs skaters and dropping the height difference part of it. A roller skater would not have the skating skills to be competitive in ice dance.

This is as much advice as I'm willing to give; if you don't want people to give you their opinion, do your research on Wikipedia. But to be very clear - if you want to write a novel with skating in the background, it doesn't matter what you do. If you want it to be a believable part of your story, do more research before you get into the plotting because you clearly know very little at the moment about how skating works. Karne isn't telling you not to write at all, she is telling you to do your homework before you do. Though I do not share her appreciation for the US men, karne is a knowledgeable skating fan and she and other posters in this thread have been trying to steer you in the right direction. Be grateful that people are trying to help you out.