Yu-Na's 3-3 combo at the Olympics

[adoreyuna]

TOTALLY AGREE about the whole reputation basis for judging skaters on their PCS. But lets save that for another thread, lol.

PCS scores have a reputation bias associated. This is correct. Moreover it is not important whether a reputation comes from so many spin doctors' aid or extremely inefficient skills, whatever.

 

[Figure88]

With pleasure.


The article is basically a regurgitation of Hersh's original post, which (as noted by others) is mostly backed up with sources such as hearsay from skating message boards and a Youtube video that is not exactly the paragon of objectivity. Given that figure skating message boards and Youtube fan videos were also the source of last year's ridiculous conspiracy theory that Yu-Na was intentionally targetted by Japanese skaters (as well as skaters wearing light blue ), I hope you would understand why I am skeptical about this year's conspiracy theory. Even the Seattle Times article admits that all this talk is mostly innuendo at this point, after all.

LOL! That's a way of putting it. Hersh's article actually says that the issue was first reported in the Korean Times. He then verified the substance of the article through a phone call to Cinquanta and Orser. In his phone discussion, Cinquanta basically confirmed that he requested that Yuna compete 4cc and threatened the KSU with a sanction if they can't produce her. Hersh also says that the same technical specialist that gave her the controversial DG will be used at the Olympics. You can draw whatever conclusions you want from this.

 

[i love to skate]

Yes, but two of the three are being fixed! watch 08' COC and 09' GPF
where Yuna got the unfair calls. The two people on the tech panel are same, the other being Russian.

Nothing can be determined because the event hasn't even taken place yet! COC looked underrotated to me, GPF was questionable. However, EVERY skater has gotten a questionable call sometime. Yuna has underrotated on other jumps before as well!

 

[Basics]

Given that figure skating message boards and Youtube fan videos were also the source of last year's ridiculous conspiracy theory that Yu-Na was intentionally targetted by Japanese skaters (as well as skaters wearing light blue )

HAHA~ Nice work from another anti-yuna troll! Look at their signiture tagging mark. Even Jeremy complained of this on his twitter. u don't believe that it was posted by a troll? Then, find the one says " Intentional impeding by other skaters" from the same poster. crazy!

 

[Basics]

Nothing can be determined because the event hasn't even taken place yet! COC looked underrotated to me, GPF was questionable. However, EVERY skater has gotten a questionable call sometime. Yuna has underrotated on other jumps before as well!

Which looked under-rotated? are you saying her triple lutz in sp? then, I can prove you that actually it wasn't. Remember 1/4 short of rotation is regarded as DG.

Yes, every skater gets questionable calls sometime in their career, but when they are coming from a same tech panel then it's a whole different issue.

 

[chloepoco]

Yes, but two of the three are being fixed! watch 08' COC and 09' GPF
where Yuna got the unfair calls. The two people on the tech panel are same, the other being Russian.

Is this something you know for a fact and can be verified that two of the three are fixed? It seems to me that anytime Yuna gets a downgrade, some people automatically accuse the tech panel/judge/specialist, whatever, of being corrupt.

 

[Figure88]

Nothing can be determined because the event hasn't even taken place yet! COC looked underrotated to me, GPF was questionable. However, EVERY skater has gotten a questionable call sometime. Yuna has underrotated on other jumps before as well!

I believe CoC was an "e" call. Did you actually look her jump? Somehow I doubt it.

 

[Basics]

Is this something you know for a fact and can be verified that two of the three are fixed? It seems to me that anytime Yuna gets a downgrade, some people automatically accuse the tech panel/judge/specialist, whatever, of being corrupt.

when I said "fixed", I meant "always same" not "bribed". If you misunderstood, then that's my fault.

 

[i love to skate]

Which looked under-rotated? are you saying her triple lutz in sp? then, I can prove you that actually it wasn't. Remember 1/4 short of rotation is regarded as DG.

Yes, every skater gets a questionable call sometime in their career, but when they are coming from a same tech panel then it's a whole different issue.

There is nothing to prove - nothing can be done about the calls now. She got downgraded and received edge calls there, she got downgraded at 4CC in Vancouver and received an !, she received a ! at Worlds too, she got downgraded at Skate America, had downgrades at the Final as well. She has not only received calls from a certain tech panel.

I believe CoC was an "e" call. Did you actually look her jump? Somehow I doubt it.

Perhaps you should look up her short program...

ETA:

Is this something you know for a fact and can be verified that two of the three are fixed? It seems to me that anytime Yuna gets a downgrade, some people automatically accuse the tech panel/judge/specialist, whatever, of being corrupt.

Totally agree!

 

[Basics]

There is nothing to prove - nothing can be done about the calls now. She got downgraded and received edge calls there, she got downgraded at 4CC in Vancouver and received an !, she received a ! at Worlds too, she got downgraded at Skate America, had downgrades at the Final as well. She has not only received calls from a certain tech panel.

most of her other DG calls were obvious and no one complained about them, except for the one in 4cc.

 

[rossdale]

What? Her 3-3 jump was under-rotated??????

Yuna 3-3 jump at 2009 GPF SP was just perfect. The DR call is clearly wrong as many people mentioned already.

While I was browsing Youtube, I found an interesting video. This video confirmed my conclusion that the tech specialst made a terrible mistake. (maybe more than one mistake...)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjBfMZlm_xo&feature=player_embedded

 

[rossdale]

Mr. C is bullying Ms. Kim

TOTALLY AGREE about the whole reputation basis for judging skaters on their PCS. But lets save that for another thread, lol.

I also agree with Figure88 about the whole Cinquanta ordeal....I really do think that he did a lot more stuff behind closed doors to get Yu-Na to skate at 4CC than what he admitted :scratch:.....

He is bullying Yuna. He may be doing much more dirty stuffs behind the scene.....

 

[rossdale]

I totally agree with you

Actually, I was quoting from the article linked here:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ht...010703886_another_figure_skating_judging.html

Criticize it all you want.




I think you're giving Cinquanta too much credit for intelligence. In any case, he probably thought the Korean federation would never make such big deal about his underhanded dealings and the whole matter would never even go to press.

I d like to give you credit for you intelligence and great analysis skills

 

[evangeline]

LOL! That's a way of putting it. Hersh's article actually says that the issue was first reported in the Korean Times. He then verified the substance of the article through a phone call to Cinquanta and Orser. In his phone discussion, Cinquanta basically confirmed that he requested that Yuna compete 4cc and threatened the KSU with a sanction if they can't produce her. Hersh also says that the same technical specialist that gave her the controversial DG will be used at the Olympics. You can draw whatever conclusions you want from this.

True. Those are the individual facts. I'm not denying that Cinquanta is trying to force Yu-Na to attend 4CCs in a rather harsh way. But where is the evidence that links them all together, that Cinquanta has a grand scheme to try to sabotage Yu-Na for the Olympics? But all the 'proof' for a conspiracy seems to me to be drawn from mostly speculation.

Also, out of curiosity, have the tech panels for the Olympics been officially confirmed yet? I can't seem to find this information on the Internet (besides Hersh's article).

 

[adoreyuna]

most of her other DG calls were obvious and no one complained about it, except for the one in 4cc.

Yes it is true. 2009 SA LP and GPF LP DG calls were obvious, so I've never seen someone was complaining about those either. Tokyo GPF Yuna's SP DG is the most stupid decision I've ever seen.I saw a lot of commentators and experts who didn't agree it, any Japanese expert even didn't accept that call. Unfortunately, Some image makers are hypocritically trying to make it for Yuna fans to go on complaining about all DG calls. They said usually "Oh~ I'm Yuna's big fan too or I'm not interested in Yuna's play or I don't care."

 

[figurejennah]

There are a couple of common characteristics that I've observed in those videos saying that Yuna's jumps were short of rotations:

First off, they never use a HD version. Secondly, they cover Yuna's blades with a thick blue or red line or huge dots so that practically it is very hard to see where and at what angle she actually landed. Thirdly, sometimes they use a very uncommon front view for her jumps, which hides most part of the blade. Lastly, they mostly disable youtubers to add a comment.

These are why I can't give them any credit regardless of what kind of truth they stand up for.

:agree: Couldn't have said it better.


Well, why do Yuna fans strongly believe that there are some problems with Yuna's 3-3 downgrades and edge calls?

Because MANY OTHER SKATING EXPERTS HAVE SAID SO.

Honestly, if Yuna fans were the only ones coming up with these so called "conspiracy" theories and making "fabricated" videos to post on youtube, then maybe we could say they were overreacting. But when legendary former skaters like Kristi Yamaguchi, Kurt Browning, Midori Ito, Scott Hamilton, Michelle Kwan, etc all say how Yuna's 3-3 were perfect and her flip should not have received edge calls, then it's a different story. I don't think it's a coincidence that Philip Hersh wrote that article either. Frankly, what does he get out from writing that article? He doesn't look Korean to me, and Korea is not even a big ISU sponsoring country either. They only have Yuna Kim, and she used to skate in amusement park ice rink before her huge competition due to lack of support from KSU. So maybe Hersh does think that Yuna is terrific, and he might have really questioned ISU's intentions for forcing Yuna to participate in 4CC.


I don't think that Yuna fans are complaining about the very obvious downgrade calls that she received when she fell or slipped. I think they are legitimately concerned about the other calls that should not have received downgrades or edge calls.

And to be honest, I think it's preposterous that some people think that because Yuna is "So good," she has to be judged by different judging standards. It's like someone telling you that because you've studied so hard to get As on your report card, you have to receive 130 on your next math test to get an A, when everyone only needs 90.

 

[inside edge]

:

And to be honest, I think it's preposterous that some people think that because Yuna is "So good," she has to be judged by different judging standards. It's like someone telling you that because you've studied so hard to get As on your report card, you have to receive 130 on your next math test to get an A, when everyone only needs 90.

:yes::yes:

 

[silverlake22]

I don't think that Yuna fans are complaining about the very obvious downgrade calls that she received when she fell or slipped. I think they are legitimately concerned about the other calls that should not have received downgrades or edge calls.

And to be honest, I think it's preposterous that some people think that because Yuna is "So good," she has to be judged by different judging standards. It's like someone telling you that because you've studied so hard to get As on your report card, you have to receive 130 on your next math test to get an A, when everyone only needs 90.

ITA. Yuna's LP at SA was a bit of a mess and the UR calls were deserved, as was the 3t in the 2a-3t at the GPF LP as she 2footed that jump which is usually a giveaway that the jump is UR. The UR call she received in the SP at the GPF is a different story entirely, that was an amazing combination! And all the ! calls she got last year for her 3f-3t were also bogus, her 3f-3t is 10x better than anyone else who even attempts it. Plus, as far as I can tell, she does not "lip" and has a gorgeous 3f. So many people with bad flutzes only get ! which is unfair because Yuna's flip takeoff is just fine.

A skater is only supposed to get a UR call if the jump is 1/4 rotation cheated or more. 1/4. That is not the same as 1/4 for everyone else and 1/8 for Yuna. She's better than everyone else and should be rewarded for it....NOT punished. Seems like some judges/tech callers are trying to knock her down a peg, but if she loses OGM for bogus reasons people all over the world will be pissed. There could probably be a lawsuit and Yuna would win.

 

[HCOSurfer]

But when legendary former skaters like Kristi Yamaguchi, Kurt Browning, Midori Ito, Scott Hamilton, Michelle Kwan, etc all say how Yuna's 3-3 were perfect and her flip should not have received edge calls, then it's a different story.

Wait, hold up. Since when are ANY of the skaters mentioned above technical specialists?

 

[miki88]

True. Those are the individual facts. I'm not denying that Cinquanta is trying to force Yu-Na to attend 4CCs in a rather harsh way. But where is the evidence that links them all together, that Cinquanta has a grand scheme to try to sabotage Yu-Na for the Olympics? But all the 'proof' for a conspiracy seems to me to be drawn from mostly speculation.

Also, out of curiosity, have the tech panels for the Olympics been officially confirmed yet? I can't seem to find this information on the Internet (besides Hersh's article).

I agree. The big problem I have with Hersh's article is that he has to use these individual facts to relate to his conspriacy theory. And for those who are asking what he can gain from this, well I think being the first one to spread word on this conspiracy is a big plus for a journalist. I mean don't these guys live for controversy? Anyways, he already succeeded in spreading the word to the seattle times.