Yulia Lipnitskaya

[Alba]

Really liked Julia's performance! It was probably my favourite skate of the night

However, I don't think edge calls should be less severe. Would you want to see someone try to do the Lutz even if they can't, and yet they still do it anyway because they aren't punished severely enough for them to consider taking the jump out of the program? I think the rules are fair, though perhaps more points should be deducted for a fall.

No, but the same logic should follow other errors, in proportion to the mistake.
Negative GoE's+ BV deduction? Too much. Make it mandatory -3 GoE and that's it.

 

[Sandpiper]

However, I don't think edge calls should be less severe. Would you want to see someone try to do the Lutz even if they can't, and yet they still do it anyway because they aren't punished severely enough for them to consider taking the jump out of the program? I think the rules are fair, though perhaps more points should be deducted for a fall.

Yes, I'd rather see someone do a triple flutz over a double axel. And I'd rather see a triple flutz than a triple lutz with a fall on the end.

 

[Alba]

Yes, I'd rather see someone do a triple flutz over a double axel. And I'd rather see a triple flutz than a triple lutz with a fall on the end.

 

[leolion11]

No, but the same logic should follow other errors, in proportion to the mistake.
Negative GoE's+ BV deduction? Too much. Make it mandatory -3 GoE and that's it.

I don't see how a BV reduction is too much. A skater who flutzes has wrong technique on the takeoff of the jump, and wrong technique should be punished, so I don't see why people are complaining.

Sandpiper I didn't compare an edge call with a fall. I merely said that I thought the current rules for edge calls are fair, but I also think that falls should be punished a lot more severely than they are right now.

 

[Alba]

I don't see how a BV reduction is too much. A skater who flutzes has wrong technique on the takeoff of the jump, and wrong technique should be punished, so I don't see why people are complaining.

I said BV reduction + negative GoE's are too much. Keep the BV reduction, but the GOE should still be allowed to be positive.

Anyway, this is just for the sake of talking, discussions on this issue.
About Yulia I was more "mad" that she lost points on her spin and stepseq.

 

[alebi]

This morning I've watched again Yulia's jumps and honestly I'd have called both the jumps ! For what concerns the flip, the camera's angle doesn't help but the jump seems worst than other time, even if the edge call seems too strict. Especially because we haven't seen the same severity with all the other jumps (both with junior and senior) even if the panel was the same. (And this is the real problem this season, some skaters aren't understanding anything thanks to different opinions in different competitions... see Wagner).

Unfortunately a jump with and edge call and a "little" obligatory step before can bring to a -3 in GOE when the panel is so rigid, even if it was a good jump with good flow. For me a -2 was enough... hwell: This is something I said even before the beginning of the season: these new rules aim more to damage the skater instead of rewarding for what he/she does correctly. And this is no good for the development of FS because skaters are persuaded to be more safe instead of risking (see Yulia who did 3T+3T all the season).

Back to Yulia, she lost precious points (something like 1.3 - 1.5) on the final spins (but I don't understand which position hasn't been counted because too short.... any clue?) while the step sequence has always got level3 this season, they should work on it.

Well... I was happy to see Yulia smiling so much during and after the program, it's so clear that she feels so confident with this short. I hope to see the same smile after the free

 

[Snow63]

Trankov thought that she's got edge call on her lutz, not flip. Hmmm... it's funny, because he's usually right about edges and URs. For me both jumps looked like '!'.

 

[alebi]

Trankov thought that she's got edge call on her lutz, not flip. Hmmm... it's funny, because he's usually right about edges and URs. For me both jumps looked like '!'.

The lutz is a clear ! (I wouldn't say it's an "e"). She approaches the jump on an outside edge but when she jumps the edge is clearly flat. The flip is approached on an outside edge too (that's why I'm saying it was worst than other time) but she turns flat "long" before the toe, so for me it was another ! But the TV's angle really doesn't help... And maybe the jump remained on an outside. One thing is sure: this panel was more inclined to damage the flip instead of the lutz

 

[Alba]

Trankov thought that she's got edge call on her lutz, not flip. Hmmm... it's funny, because he's usually right about edges and URs. For me both jumps looked like '!'.

I think Trankov went with the most well known Yulia's edge call, because he had no idea at the moment about the protocols. That's why.

Back to Yulia, she lost precious points (something like 1.3 - 1.5) on the final spins (but I don't understand which position hasn't been counted because too short.... any clue?) while the step sequence has always got level3 this season, they should work on it.

Ambesi said on FB: sulla combinata ci può stare (perdere i punti, perchè lui non era daccordo con la chiamata del flip ndr) perchè era corta sulla prima posizione (angelo).

 

[alebi]

Ambesi said on FB: sulla combinata ci può stare (perdere i punti, perchè lui non era daccordo con la chiamata del flip ndr) perchè era corta sulla prima posizione (angelo).

really? (too short on first position)
because I count 3 "full" turns on her first position... aren't supposed to be enough?

 

[Snow63]

I think Trankov went with the most well known Yulia's edge call, because he had no idea at the moment about the protocols. That's why.

No, I disagree. Well, maybe in this case he didn't pay attention, I don't know. But he usually 100% right, I can see it only in slow-motion, but he says about it during performance.
What I meant that he's right about edges and URs before protocols published. Even before slow-motion replays. He's just have a professional eye on these nuances.

 

[Alba]

really? (too short on first position)
because I count 3 "full" turns on her first position... aren't supposed to be enough?

I thought so too. I don't know, I have no idea.
I asked him because he knows the rules very well, but he hasn't replied yet. Well, it was too late last night.

No, I disagree. Well, maybe in this case he didn't pay attention, I don't know. But he usually 100% right, I can see it only in slow-motion, but he says about it during performance.
What I meant that he's right about edges and URs before protocols published. Even before slow-motion replays. He's just have a professional eye on these nuances.

Well, he said that before the slow-motion?

 

[Snow63]

I thought so too. I don't know, I have no idea.
I asked him because he knows the rules very well, but he hasn't replied yet. Well, it was too late last night.



Well, he said that before the slow-motion?

He said it after the score was announced. I need to rewatch it with his commentary, I don't remember him saying anything about her flip at all.

 

[alebi]

I thought so too. I don't know, I have no idea.
I asked him because he knows the rules very well, but he hasn't replied yet. Well, it was too late last night.

Spins are too complicated for me nowadays

 

[Alba]

Spins are too complicated for me nowadays

For me too.

He said it after the score was announced. I need to rewatch it with his commentary, I don't remember him saying anything about her flip at all.

So after the slow-mo, because live he had no chance to see that. It was too far away and from above.

 

[alebi]

On Yulia's edge... It always tends to be flat, both on lutz and flip. I really don't remember a clear inside edge for a flip, so I don't understand why the lutz should be her most "famous" problem. She risks to get a call for both jumps, depending on the technical panel. But with the new rules it should be always a "!", the "e" is too severe exactly because she never jumps with a clear inside/outside edge.

 

[Alba]

On Yulia's edge... It always tends to be flat, both on lutz and flip. I really don't remember a clear inside edge for a flip, so I don't understand why the lutz should be her most "famous" problem. She risks to get a call for both jumps, depending on the technical panel. But with the new rules it should be always a "!", the "e" is too severe exactly because she never jumps with a clear inside/outside edge.

I don't agree about the flip, and it's not true she never had a good lutz either.
Anyway, to answer your question, her lutz is "famous" because is the jump she got called in the past.
So if you have that tendency or mistake in your technique, it sticks with you. Like those with the Ur.

I never quite understood though why people do care so much about the correct edge on the lutz and not the flip.

 

[alebi]

I don't agree about the flip, and it's not true she never had a good lutz either.
Anyway, to answer your question, her lutz is "famous" because is the jump she got called in the past.
So if you have that tendency or mistake in your technique, it sticks with you. Like those with the Ur.

I never quite understood though why people do care so much about the correct edge on the lutz and not the flip.

Yes I know... The lutz has almost always been called wrong, but I was "rhetorically" asking because I don't see a perfect edge on the flip either and when you find these controllers... you get the call hwell:
I think that Yulia has worked so much in the last months on the lutz that the flip is consequently suffering for it. This last flip was bruttino (I don't want to say bad or ugly because we've seen worse jumps... so I say bruttino )

BTW I don't understand why we have to check under a lens only this Yulia's jump, while the technical panel was so lenient during the entire competition

 

[Alba]

Yes I know... The lutz has almost always been called wrong, but I was "rhetorically" asking because I don't see a perfect edge on the flip either and when you find these controllers... you get the call hwell:

No but I was speaking about Trankov before.
I saying to Snow, that maybe Trankov thought immediately about the lutz, precisely for that reason.

I think that Yulia has worked so much in the last months on the lutz that the flip is consequently suffering for it. This last flip was bruttino (I don't want to say bad or ugly because we've seen worse jumps... so I say bruttino )

Bruttino is not that bad.
I don't know if she has worked to correct the lutz in particular.
She spoke about the lutz and the flip in her interviews, but because of her boots. Not that she was doing something particular to correct the edge. Neither Eteri nor her spoke about that, as far as I know. :think:

 

[alebi]

Bruttino is not that bad.
I don't know if she has worked to correct the lutz in particular.
She spoke about the lutz and the flip in her interviews, but because of her boots. Not that she was doing something particular to correct the edge. Neither Eteri nor her spoke about that, as far as I know. :think:

Really? I thought she wasn't showing the lutz because she was working on it. But they were only my thoughts
Bruttino because Yulia's jump, for me, are never ugly and it was only a matter of edge. In this particular case, when she gets out of the step before the flip, she's on the outside edge, that's why I'm saying it was her worst flip so far (and maybe the call is not that wrong). And I thought it was because yesterday she was paying more attention to lutz. I need to relax and think less