As a new member, I would like to thank you all for all the photos, videos and translations! It's all highly appreciated!
Yuzuru does seem to be very thoughtful and wise...in addition to his incredible talent.
Wellcome Spot ! The more ,the better
Yuzuru Hanyu: 2014-15 Season
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Wellcome Spot ! The more ,the better
Welcome Spot, and I see you have discerning taste in skaters.
But you know, while I can imagine Jason doing "The Final Time Traveler" exhibition program of Yuzuru, my mind boggles at Yuzuru doing "Cotton Eye Joe."
How hilarious! Even he is an " Alien" ,I don't think he can do that " Cotton Eye Joe"
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- Feb 12, 2015
At the same time, we have to remember that he did wear a skirt (and a bow in his hair!) when he changed in Yuzuki a few years back, so who knows?How hilarious! Even he is an " Alien" ,I don't think he can do that " Cotton Eye Joe"
But nah, well, I can see him doing crazy stuff again, but I can't see him doing something like Cotton Eye Joe either. Leave it to Jason.I am wondering is he really overrated?the guess is from a fan of Yuzuru who usually don’t care about his scores and scoring system that much.
I don't think he is overscored. I feel people who say Yuzuru is overscored are stuck in the 6.0 mindset. They are using 6.0 standard to judge a COP performance. They think the mistakes sholud be penalized more. But the current judging system does not penalize mistakes as harsh as the old system. I think these people prefer to see COP programs where the programs require more all around skills, but they judge these performances with 6.0 mindset. That would not be a fair judgement. Because it is impossible to have all-around skills, clean and high quality performances and difficult tech content at the same time (at lease not in the men's competition). You need to give up one of them. So for COP, it's the clean performances that are sacrificed.
I noticed that at least in this forum, people who complained about Yuzuru's scores are people who are stuck in the 6.0 mindset. For me, a new spectator, I'm ok with the current rules as long as the rules make sense and there are no better ways to achieve what the rules want to achieve.
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but seeing that some haters keep saying about him parrotlike he is overrated it is overscoring, I am wondering is he really overrated?
What gzsyf said, but also lots of people who simply don't like Yuzuru or his style of skating say that he's overscored. Personal dislike = overscored for many (Pfft, I don't like Phantom of the Opera, and I don't like his costume and he looks and skates like a girl, and he doesn't have balletic expression, he's overscored.). They will find all the flaws in his skating but none of the fine points and will never admit or understand that there are plenty of reasons why judges score him so high. For me, the fact that so many comentators, so people with great knowledge of skating, sing Yuzuru's praises, is telling enough.
Every single time this thread just keeps looping back to overscoring, it's not like I dislike the debates (as long as no one acts too condescending), because everyone including myself has their own justifiable opinions, but I think its still going to be generally the same arguments from each side.
That's because people many non-fan posters elsewhere keep accusing Yuzuru of being overscored and new-ish posters may be surprised by it. We just need to to accept that, repeat our arguments and shrug it off.
Wellcome Spot ! The more ,the better
Thank you, and agreed
!I have been a fan of his for a while, but it was his willpower to overcome this difficult year (and his beautiful bromance with Javi, haha) which made me join the forum
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- Joined
- Jul 13, 2014
I agree. I became a fan of skating only 14 months ago, so of course that means CoP. And I like the way it's set up. Elements are key and how difficult they are plus the way they're performed are key as well. I like it when we see what they're being scored on and how many points elements are scored up. Personally I think it's fun. Especially when I calculate to see what would have happened if a skater got no -GOE, no deductions, no UR, no downgrades, and no edge calls. Plus also if an element there you know was supposed to be something else.
Plus also when I create programs in my head (MINUS choreography cause I suck at creating it) I calculate the BV of them. Seriously, it's so much fun in my opinion to do so.
Also perhaps me being in the CoP brain makes me aloof to what other people are claiming of so-called overscoring.
Yuzuru is an amazing skater. I don't get how others can't see it if they don't see it. Yuzuru has the ability to make people drawn in to the performance. It certainly worked for me. Cause I became a fan of him due to how drawn in I was to his skating.
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2014
Thank you, and agreed
I have been a fan of his for a while, but it was his willpower to overcome this difficult year (and his beautiful bromance with Javi, haha) which made me join the forum
Welcome! I also began to really love him from his performance at 2013 worlds, Where he skated with knee injury and managed to jump from 9th in sp to 4th in lp!! And his lp was more or less wonderful!
And he never fails to surprise me how strong his will power is compared to someone like me, though we are at the same age!!
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I personally think the COP are better rules than 6.0, at least more fair. It's the reputation judging that makes the judging unfair, not the COP rules themselves. But reputation judging will always exist in any human judging system, whether it's COP or 6.0.
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- Jun 9, 2014
Part 5 it's the last. I wonder if you guys can understand my poor translation. please point out wrong parts and correct.
Yuzuru is a very clever boy. So let' not worry too much about him
This is amazing! Thank you so much for your hard work, and its definitely not a poor translation! 
For the most part I think Hanyu is scored fairly. He just seems made for the current system. When he falls, he gets the most points out of his falls by making full rotations. He does all his other elements so well that score wise it almost cancels out the fall. It's not his fault that the current system rewards skaters the way does. Its still a sport, so I wouldn't fault any of the skaters for finding ways to get as many points as possible out of the scoring system. The only performance that made me think he was overscored and that the way the system rewards falls should be revamped is his CoC FS ~ but the circumstances were unique and unfortunate.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2014
I think that every Olympic cicle there's a certain general inflation of PCS, so every top skater is in a certain way "overscored" if you compare performances across the years, what was 30 PCS before now is 45 PCS and etc. The system has its inconsistencies ( I mean it's impossible not to have, every judging made my actual people is subjective after all). Also, the rules are constantly changing, so to be honest, for me 'records' as a couple of numbers are completely meaningless. When it comes to Yuzuru there was some bogus situations with him like of course, COC FS and that atrocious silver medal there, but overall I think that every top skater has its own amount of love from the judges.
And I say this meaning that the system has it's flaws when it comes to score skaters with different scoring potentials. So since every top skater in all disciplines has a clear difference in score potential when compared to the rest, most of the cases a program from a quality skater with a minor flaw will for sure score better than a clean program from a less quality skater, and sometimes it leads to wrong placements because the skater that didn't do so well across the whole competition but has a natural advantage in his quality will place higher than the one who did better across the two programs (less mistakes) but has less scoring potential. That's a characteristic of the system that doesn't bode well with the 'common sense', or the general perception that we as viewers have of a performance. The times when this leads to wrong placements (the winner isn't the righful one) is when the scandals happen , however this didn't happen at this Worlds, the judges got the placements right but if we look at the difference in scores between Javier and Yuzuru is just mere 3 points. Is it right, is it wrong? Is the difference between them at this competion considering how they did across the two programs just mere 3 points?
Now let's just imagine if Yuzuru had fallen on that quadsal but rotated, he would have been ahead of Javier, which I think is absurd if we go for the 'common sense': one skater who had 1 flaw at the SP and two falls at the FS winning over another that had a flawless SP plus one fall at FS AND they are also both top skaters, so the other skater (Javier) is an actual a contender for the gold medal. But for the system it's completely justifiable point-wise. If we compare Javier and Yuzuru assets, Yuzuru has better spins, better step sequence, better skating skills, should receive better GOE's and also has more jumps at the second half, so he has a 'natural' advantage because of his quality, should receive higher PCS AND a TES from Yuzuru with a minor flaw (the step out form the quad at the SP for example) can score about the same of a flawles TES from Javier. At Worlds 2015, to place Javier ahead of Yuzuru, where he should rightfully be, the judges had to give Javier weirdly high GOEs, levels to the spins, steps and better PCS at the FS and still this only was sufficient to create a difference of 3 points between them.
The biggest examples of cases of when there was wrong placements at the men's disciplines is of course Worlds 2012 and Worlds 2013. The sheer difficulty of men's skating nowadays doesn't allow big consistency of the top guys and that's what lead to these types of scandals. These problems could be almost fixed with just 1. Ban anonymous judging 2. More penaulty for falls or less the points for just the rotations of jumps. However there's a lot of debate of how the second would affect the amount of difficulty that the guys are up to put on their programs and about how much we would be regressing to 6.0.
And I say this meaning that the system has it's flaws when it comes to score skaters with different scoring potentials. So since every top skater in all disciplines has a clear difference in score potential when compared to the rest, most of the cases a program from a quality skater with a minor flaw will for sure score better than a clean program from a less quality skater, and sometimes it leads to wrong placements because the skater that didn't do so well across the whole competition but has a natural advantage in his quality will place higher than the one who did better across the two programs (less mistakes) but has less scoring potential. That's a characteristic of the system that doesn't bode well with the 'common sense', or the general perception that we as viewers have of a performance. The times when this leads to wrong placements (the winner isn't the righful one) is when the scandals happen , however this didn't happen at this Worlds, the judges got the placements right but if we look at the difference in scores between Javier and Yuzuru is just mere 3 points. Is it right, is it wrong? Is the difference between them at this competion considering how they did across the two programs just mere 3 points?
Now let's just imagine if Yuzuru had fallen on that quadsal but rotated, he would have been ahead of Javier, which I think is absurd if we go for the 'common sense': one skater who had 1 flaw at the SP and two falls at the FS winning over another that had a flawless SP plus one fall at FS AND they are also both top skaters, so the other skater (Javier) is an actual a contender for the gold medal. But for the system it's completely justifiable point-wise. If we compare Javier and Yuzuru assets, Yuzuru has better spins, better step sequence, better skating skills, should receive better GOE's and also has more jumps at the second half, so he has a 'natural' advantage because of his quality, should receive higher PCS AND a TES from Yuzuru with a minor flaw (the step out form the quad at the SP for example) can score about the same of a flawles TES from Javier. At Worlds 2015, to place Javier ahead of Yuzuru, where he should rightfully be, the judges had to give Javier weirdly high GOEs, levels to the spins, steps and better PCS at the FS and still this only was sufficient to create a difference of 3 points between them.
The biggest examples of cases of when there was wrong placements at the men's disciplines is of course Worlds 2012 and Worlds 2013. The sheer difficulty of men's skating nowadays doesn't allow big consistency of the top guys and that's what lead to these types of scandals. These problems could be almost fixed with just 1. Ban anonymous judging 2. More penaulty for falls or less the points for just the rotations of jumps. However there's a lot of debate of how the second would affect the amount of difficulty that the guys are up to put on their programs and about how much we would be regressing to 6.0.
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- Feb 25, 2014
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I agree. There is this one absolutely positive thing about the new system is that it started to promote well-rounded skills and elements with every skater. Not only those who could perform difficult jumps came forth- we also saw the raise of those who had great spins, skating skills, who had different jumps in their pocket. The thing is- I see that this system is trying to idealize itself by, for example Zayak's for repeated jumps thus making these requirements being possible to be managed by... robots? And there is no one figure skater in the world who can be perfect in everything- the way this new system desire him or her to be. Sure there should be quality to the elements, the jumps should be fully rotated and properly performed (edge call). And as one of those who caught the 6.0 system I came to the realization of new system being a positive thing for this sport only recently. But every system has it's flaws and therefore should be adjusted. And also- it is always influenced by people. Scores are inflated to promote this sport and athletes, also- they add the excitement for viewers.
- Joined
- Sep 5, 2014
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm25938953
Here's the CBC podcast on Worlds with the cuts concerning the men, and more specifically Yuzu and Javier for the SP. They're discussing why Yuzu got more than Javier in this segment of the competition, which I think illustrates the debate on the scoring system you're having right now.
PS: Thank you Victor for your amazing translation
Here's the CBC podcast on Worlds with the cuts concerning the men, and more specifically Yuzu and Javier for the SP. They're discussing why Yuzu got more than Javier in this segment of the competition, which I think illustrates the debate on the scoring system you're having right now.
PS: Thank you Victor for your amazing translation
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2014
My current account is new but actually I have been in many forums for years (with different accounts), and I tell you, no, Yuzuru is not overrated, especially for his talents. Yuzuru has the most raw talents we have ever seen from a young boy. When he was just 14-16, people have been gushing over his talents already. Following are comments about Yuzuru when he was 16 years old, in 2011. Enjoy:I am wondering is he really overrated?
This comment was by Ziggy, who passed away last year
Love Love Yuzuru-kun, my pick for Sochi medalist - even hopefully gold
He has show great musicality, has a graceful expressive presence on ice that will only age better with time. Yazuru has shown great mature attitude and seem a great guy off ice as well (Not to mention very cute)
And there are TONS many more comments about his talents in various topic. I have no time to copy and paste them all here.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2014
Absolutely :agree: At a perfect world where top skaters always skate clean the COP system is just wonderful, if properly executed, because it can evaluate every minor aspect of a program TES wise and encourage skaters of where they should work on. But there's inconsistencies of how the system is executed, times when some GOEs and levels are suspiciously too high or too low because the judging is of course handled by humans, and anonymous ones as well. Of course, PCS is still the biggest subjective part of it, and I'm another believer that PCS is actually a 'place holder' and that it was borrowed 6.0. Once a skater gets to a certain level (be it by developing their skating or because of their reputation), their range of PCS will be higher, and it will also be less affected in case of worse peformances.
And about the inflation of scores and records for promotion of the sport I agree too, that's why it usually happens leading to the Olympics, the biggest event to attract viewers.
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