Yuzuru Hanyu: 2015-16 Season | Page 227 | Golden Skate

Yuzuru Hanyu: 2015-16 Season

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gsyzf said:
Patrick’s GOE at Skate Canada was almost 11 points higher than Yuzuru’s GOE and his PCS was 6 points higher.
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This does not seem unreasonable, after watching (and re-watching) both performances, and looking at the protocols. Chan was at his best. Hanyu was not at all at his best. (This means Hanyu will improve as the season goes on, as usual - but Chan has "peaked" too soon, and has nowhere to go but down ;-D)

gsyzf said:
His GOE was also 6 points higher and his PCS was also 5 points higher than his own performance of the same program (with similar content) at Japan Open last year.
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So, I do think there is significant inflation in Patrick’s score due to him skating at home.
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You could be right, but personally I'm not convinced. Comparing two different competitions (that had different judges and tech panel) doesn't really work, and it's veeeery tricky to draw any conclusions.

I think Chan's "inflated" scores were due to him giving one of the best performances of his life, and I think he would have got the same scores outside of Canada. Like he did at TEB in 2013.

I also think anyone else who skated like that, would have got similar rewards.

gsyzf said:
Judge no.3 is clearly against Yuzuru. I can’t believe any rational judge would give Yuzuru that kind of GOE and PCS. That judge gave Yuzuru 7’s for most components. Those are the same kind of scores Nam received from all judges.
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That one does stick out, but at least their score will be the one that gets discarded, for being the lowest.

Even then - due to the randomisation of judge order - it's hard to tell if that judge was biased against Yuzuru (unfair), or if they were harsh to everyone (fair).
 
Whatever you do don't go to the SC men's FS thread it's about as bad as the Chan vs Hanyu thread. Same old same old.
 
Aww, just watched the "Requiem of Heaven and Earth" gala performance by Yuzuru and it was beautiful (I didn't mind the costume this time too). ;) I can't wait to watch the program in HD later since the stream was a bit blurry.
 
padme21 said:
Whatever you do don't go to the SC men's FS thread it's about as bad as the Chan vs Hanyu thread. Same old same old.
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Still going strong, is it?;) I left off reading the Chan vs Hanyu thread... ages ago; and haven't been to the men's LP thread for many hours - I'm sure it has grown exponentially since.;)

Anyway, I'd just like to say that I loved Yuzu's new LP - and it is, in fact, my favourite of his. And I know absolutely zero about the background, or the music, or anything. Just to say that it is possible to be an utter ignoramus about these things, and still enjoy the program.:)

Wishing him well with it in the future - and will be looking forward to seeing it again.:)

ETA - Oh, I also loved his costume.:)
 
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YesWay said:
This does not seem unreasonable, after watching (and re-watching) both performances, and looking at the protocols. Chan was at his best. Hanyu was not at all at his best. (This means Hanyu will improve as the season goes on, as usual - but Chan has "peaked" too soon, and has nowhere to go but down ;-D)


You could be right, but personally I'm not convinced. Comparing two different competitions (that had different judges and tech panel) doesn't really work, and it's veeeery tricky to draw any conclusions.

I think Chan's "inflated" scores were due to him giving one of the best performances of his life, and I think he would have got the same scores outside of Canada. Like he did at TEB in 2013.

I also think anyone else who skated like that, would have got similar rewards.


That one does stick out, but at least their score will be the one that gets discarded, for being the lowest.

Even then - due to the randomisation of judge order - it's hard to tell if that judge was biased against Yuzuru (unfair), or if they were harsh to everyone (fair).
Click to expand...

The scores may vary depending on the leniency of the judges. However, even with very lenient judges, the scores don’t get shot up that much (12 points). Even when Yuzuru had the skate of his life at the Olympics, his GOE+PCS never got that kind of bump and the Olympics (& Olympic season in general) have super inflation.

Patrick’s GOE + PCS is over 17 points higher than Yuzuru’s. That’s more than the deductions for 5 falls. No matter how good Patrick’s performance is (I personally don’t think it’s that good), there is no way to justify that kind of margin. Yuzuru didn’t give his best quality performance, but that’s still a very decent performance. Yuzuru did not fall all over the place. He only had one fall and one hand down. The other jumps still got +GOE for the difficult entries and height/distance /flow of his jumps. His spins and steps also have decent quality. Without watching their performances, I would’ve thought the 11 point GOE margin is between a skater with super quality and a skater with no quality or negative quality on everything.

Judges need to be strict with the GOE and PCS they hand out. Otherwise, they are asking for troubles for themselves. Most of the controversies are caused by judges giving too generous GOE and PCS to their favorite skaters. Either they give too high GOEs/PCS for easy elements/programs, so that discourages skaters from pushing the technical boundaries or they give too high GOEs/PCS to their favorite skaters so that a very flawed performance scores higher than a much cleaner performance of similar difficulty. (It’s also discouraging to see a technically much more difficult skate getting lower score than a technically much easier skate. Yuzuru just executed the most difficult routine in the history of figure skating. It’s almost like Vancouver all over again. )

All judges gave Nam 7’s. So Judge No.3 (not sure which judge he/she is on Nam’s score sheet) must’ve also given Nam 7’s. Judge no. 3 thinks Yuzuru is on the same level as Nam. So I do think he/she is against Yuzuru.
 
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gsyzf said:
Patrick’s GOE + PCS is over 17 points higher than Yuzuru’s. That’s more than the deductions for 5 falls. No matter how good Patrick’s performance is (I personally don’t think it’s that good), there is no way to justify that kind of margin.
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I'm going to have to disagree.

There have been competitions that I thought were unfairly scored, and I got angry about it.
But this is simply not one of them.

I've rewatched both programs several times now. I really don't think there is any argument for saying Chan got too much GoE. If you disagree, I'd be interested to know what GoE bullet points you don't think he was hitting, for which elements... such that he didn't deserve the +2's he got for most things. (See ISU communication 1944, p12 for the bullet points. Only 4 bullet points out of 8 is recommended, to give +2 GoE)

PCS is more subjective, but even there I personally wouldn't say he was overscored vs Yuzuru. I could go into great detail on exactly why I think that... but that would be lengthy, it's not appropriate here, and anyway - I think your mind is made up, and nothing is going to change it.

I am no fan of Patrick Chan by the way. Not by any means. And there have been other times I did think he was overscored. But on this occasion I do not feel the urge to pick up my pitchfork and burning torch. (Where I will cry foul, is if I see someone else skate that well, but not get the same rewards).

I'm really not bothered anyway: Chan "only" finished with 271 total, less than 12 points ahead of Yuzuru. Where can he go from there? When his PCS is already pretty much maxed, he only has one kind of quad jump, and a 3A that often lets him down. He doesn't have much room/potential to earn more points.

Yuzuru on the other hand, has a LOT of room to grow, at this point. Once he gets comfortable with his FS, polishes it, adds his passion and expression, and skates it clean or nearly... his GoE points and PCS will skyrocket, and he can score over 200. His SP can also score over 100. If he can skate anywhere near clean, he will become unbeatable. (And then it will be him receiving the cries of "inflation" and "overscoring"! LOL!)
 
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Wow, it seems Yuzuru has picked up the flies from the ice because he didn't want to kill them? I've read it in twitter but don't know the source where he says it.
 
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