Yuzuru Hanyu: 2015-16 Season

[Sorrento]

I don't think Yuzu will change his choreographers. I think he uses choreographers that are willing to listen to him and let him do things his own way. Big name choreographers more or less have some ego. They are less willing to let their clients decide on the music or change the choreography. It doesn't matter who his choreographers are, given his technical content (he add more difficulty), as long as he is clean, he will break the world record.

IMO, all of his coaches, choreographers, costume designers and other supporting staff are his employees. Yuzu is the boss. The performances/programs we see from him are mostly products with his vision, completed with support from his staff.

Do you mean he will not work with David Wilson because David has a very strong vision on what skater should do to the music and how it should be interpreted? I remember listening to his TSL interview and how he criticised Jeff Buttle non musical performances during some of early season competitions and I bet David's very demanding. Whilst Jeff and ShaeLynn were alble to absorb Yuzu's ideas and let him play with their choreography a bit to own the music and the programs that he performed on the ice?

 

[gsyzf]

Do you mean he will not work with David Wilson because David has a very strong vision on what skater should do to the music and how it should be interpreted? I remember listening to his TSL interview and how he criticised Jeff Button non musical performances during some of early season competitions and I bet David's very demanding. Whilst Jeff and ShaeLynn were alble to absorb Yuzu's ideas and let him play with their choreography a bit to own the music and the programs that he performed on the ice?

Something like that. I feel choreographers who already established themselves and have already built their own brand have very strong vision and style. These choreographers want their clients to help execute the choreographers' vision. But skaters like Yuzuru also have very strong vision and ideas about the type of skaters they want to be and the type of programs they want to create. So unless Yuzuru's vision and style is a perfect match to e.g. David Wilson's, the collaboration won't work out too well. I think Yuzuru would prefer to work with choreographers who can help him choreograph the program he has in mind and also give him more freedom in expressing himself.

 

[Sorrento]

Something like that. I feel choreographers who already established themselves and have already built their own brand have very strong vision and style. These choreographers want their clients to help execute the choreographers' vision. But skaters like Yuzuru also have very strong vision and ideas about the type of skaters they want to be and the type of programs they want to create. So unless Yuzuru's vision and style is a perfect match to e.g. David Wilson's, the collaboration won't work out too well. I think Yuzuru would prefer to work with choreographers who can help him choreograph the program he has in mind and also give him more freedom in expressing himself.

I guess only time will tell if these thoughts were true. I am actually curious about it too. I'd love him to have more collaborations and possibilities to discover new ideas but maybe he has a different idea on choreo collabs in general. I think ever since I saw Seimei I feel safe about his choices. He knows what he wants and he knows how to make his programs spectacular.

 

[Mango]

Has their been confirmation that David cut the music for Notre Dame? If not, then the cut would have happened in Japan.

Honestly all choreographers deserve respect. They want the best for their clients. Some are better fits for certain clients. David in particular didn't work for Yuzuru because he didn't let him have as much control and he made programs that pushed Yuzuru's stamina. That's just the way David is, there's nothing wrong with that if a client is ok with it. With Nanami Abe I'm sure it was a different case. So now Shae Lynn is his solution, and he's happy that it's working out for him. I doubt he'll go to anyone else now with two season left to Pyeongchang.

 

[liv]

And from what david said, it is better to stick with one choreographer if you like them (at least for a bit) because it takes time for an understanding to develop between the skater/choreographer and that is when you can really develop the programs that bring out the best in the skater. I think sometimes people just click, but other times it can take a bit. I think yuzu and jeffrey just clicked right away.

 

[Lys]

Well, David choose the music (it was him suggesting and picking it) and did the choreo, I'm pretty sure that even if he didn't the cuts himself, he had his say on the final result.

I don't think I didn't show respect to David. But I still consider NDP one of the worst piece of music cuts (poor Cocciante, there) and choreo I have ever seen at top level.
That said, I don't particularly love R&J2 either, but it's way better than NDP so there's always hope.

I don't think the problem with Wilson was that:

David in particular didn't work for Yuzuru because he didn't let him have as much control and he made programs that pushed Yuzuru's stamina.

but more simply because Wilson didn't manage to tailor a program suited to the type of skater Yuzu is but only to the type of skater he *thought* Yuzu was.
I think Jeffrey and Shae Lynn (but also Kenji, from the ex of last few years), even on music pieces very different among them, managed to bring out the best traits of his skating more than David has done.

Also, as far as declaration goes, this one is the first time Yuzuru involved himself heavily in music choice & music cuts (for Seimei), so to assume those were the reasons Wilson didn't click with him is a bit far fetched, imo.


That said, after Seimei experience I think Yuzu wants to get involved in music choices & cuts more than in the past, and for sure his choreographers' picks (whoever they are) will be based also on having someone who is on the same page as him.

 

[gsyzf]

I guess only time will tell if these thoughts were true. I am actually curious about it too. I'd love him to have more collaborations and possibilities to discover new ideas but maybe he has a different idea on choreo collabs in general. I think ever since I saw Seimei I feel safe about his choices. He knows what he wants and he knows how to make his programs spectacular.

He only has two seasons before the Olympics. I don't think it's likely he will try another choreographer before that. If he still competes after 2018, maybe he will try other choreographers.

I can't see him competing in 2022 though. I don't think his body can hold up by that time. i think the only way for him to compete in 2022 is if Japanese men are in a slump after he retires. (Similar to how Plushenko came back in 2010 because Russian men were in a slump.)

 

[mcq]

The thing about working with DW is I am not so sure if the problem with how they didn't "work" was because they just didn't match or was because yuzuru has yet to have the stamina required in executing a long program. Additionally, there is something that grows with age and it is maturity. Yuzuru matured a lot artistically, physically and technically in the past 2 years. It would be great to see him work with DW again (probably for an EX or something, not necessarily a competitive program) just to see if they indeed just didn't match or because of the latter.

He only has two seasons before the Olympics. I don't think it's likely he will try another choreographer before that. If he still competes after 2018, maybe he will try other choreographers.

I can't see him competing in 2022 though. I don't think his body can hold up by that time. i think the only way for him to compete in 2022 is if Japanese men are in a slump after he retires. (Similar to how Plushenko came back in 2010 because Russian men were in a slump.)

I am completely behind yuzuru in this. 2022 is still a loooong time, and there are still 2 years until Pyeongchang so definitely it is something that is not in his focus and priority. He probably is baffled how people are so keen on asking him about whether he will retire after pyeongchang (or further, beijing oly) when pyeongchang is not happening yet.

I do however feel happy that he considers it, since personally i think he can give more and grow more (artistically and technically) than what the remaining 2 years left until pyeongchang can accommodate (since he mentioned his plan of retirement after 2018, I understand fans' excitement about hearing that he opens the possibility to this).

maybe so...
two years ago, shae did his work for the first time, the information was leaked out in shae's interview at the korean show at the begging of May. she said she would do coreo for yuxu.after that, his show of piw was held in japan. the show had the time for interaction between skaters and fans. there a fan asked about shae, but yuzu firmly denyed it. of course, we knew later that shae's statement was correct. he must have wanted to keep it secret for some reason..

How random that was hahaha

Yeah, he said it at the FS small medal ceremony at Worlds. Another program he said he likes a lot is R&J 1.0 :yes:

Ah so that was the interview. Thanks

 

[kiches]

And from what david said, it is better to stick with one choreographer if you like them (at least for a bit) because it takes time for an understanding to develop between the skater/choreographer and that is when you can really develop the programs that bring out the best in the skater. I think sometimes people just click, but other times it can take a bit. I think yuzu and jeffrey just clicked right away.

I think Yuzu and Jeff just clicked right away too.

TSL did an interview with Jeff I think back in 2013 where he talks about working with Yuzu a bit and he said he was fun to work with because he "plays" or tries things out. He also talks about choreographing Parisienne Walkways and said he was worried they'd reject it right off the bat. He described mens skating and the song as controlled madness if I remember correctly and I think he said she couldn't help himself with the music choice (need to check back on the video when I'm not on the train). I definitely find the SP he's choreographed for Yuzu to be much more of a collaborative effort than the work by Wilson and even Shae-Lynn. You can see it really clearly in Ballade 3.0, I remember thinking as I watched it the first time that I thought some of the changes came from Yuzu himself (arm movements in the spin, Ina Bauer into the Axel for example).

In Wilson's interview he mentioned that Jeff was both very artistic yet also very smart and obsessed with technique at the same time and I think those traits are very similar to Yuzu which is why they seem understand each other well when it comes to choreography. I definitely think for NDP and even R&J2 that David Wilson didn't "get" Yuzuru yet which is why both programs don't seem to suit him as well as anything that's been choreographed by Jeff, Shae, or even Kenji. Whether or not he knows him better now (doesn't seem like they actively work together, but they do seem to see each other at the Cricket Club) to produce a better program that brings out his best is yet to be seen, and may never happen again as far as we know. However, my guess is that after choreographing 2 warhorse type pieces for Yuzu he definitely wouldn't have wanted to choreograph Phantom for him and maybe Brian wanted to allow Yuzu to skate to it after the Olympics because he's wanted to for so long and that's how they ended up calling Shae-Lynn. I think PoTO demonstrated Shae-Lynn and Yuzu's understanding of each other was just beginning. It's a good program, better than David Wilson's prior programs for Yuzu, but nothing compared to Seimei when I think they really started to gel. I believe in the ice network interview she even said this second time around they had more of a connection and knew each other better (year before Yuzu was injured and recovering from surgery all the time and they didn't even get to do follow up).

 

[Mango]

Well, David choose the music (it was him suggesting and picking it) and did the choreo, I'm pretty sure that even if he didn't the cuts himself, he had his say on the final result.

I don't think I didn't show respect to David. But I still consider NDP one of the worst piece of music cuts (poor Cocciante, there) and choreo I have ever seen at top level.
That said, I don't particularly love R&J2 either, but it's way better than NDP so there's always hope.

I don't think the problem with Wilson was that:



but more simply because Wilson didn't manage to tailor a program suited to the type of skater Yuzu is but only to the type of skater he *thought* Yuzu was.
I think Jeffrey and Shae Lynn (but also Kenji, from the ex of last few years), even on music pieces very different among them, managed to bring out the best traits of his skating more than David has done.

Also, as far as declaration goes, this one is the first time Yuzuru involved himself heavily in music choice & music cuts (for Seimei), so to assume those were the reasons Wilson didn't click with him is a bit far fetched, imo.


That said, after Seimei experience I think Yuzu wants to get involved in music choices & cuts more than in the past, and for sure his choreographers' picks (whoever they are) will be based also on having someone who is on the same page as him.

I didn't say you were disrespecting him. There are people in general who disrespect David on Golden Skate. The thread for his interview on here is proof of that. He was the choreographer Brian chose for Yuzuru. It didn't work out. He moved on. From the behind the scenes at Worlds we can see there are no hard feelings between them.

I will agree with you that David wasn't able to tailor his programs to Yuzuru. He's admitted himself to doing the same for Yuna. It took some time for David to realize what she was capable of. Yuzuru didn't get to the three season mark that he's said he needs to get to know a skater fully. Shae Lynn and Kenji may be better at getting to know a skater faster. Shae Lynn's work with Julianne and Charlie certainly suggests that, if nothing.

Seimei wasn't the first time Yuzuru got involved in music selection. He chose POTO. He chose R&J 2.0. He even chose NDP after having to compromise because Johnny skated to it. He's consistently chosen his exhibition music. The music editing process is another thing, but he has certainly been involved in his music.

 

[alia jackson]

My pants against your top

 

[PatricksGaze]

Has their been confirmation that David cut the music for Notre Dame? If not, then the cut would have happened in Japan.

Honestly all choreographers deserve respect. They want the best for their clients. Some are better fits for certain clients. David in particular didn't work for Yuzuru because he didn't let him have as much control and he made programs that pushed Yuzuru's stamina. That's just the way David is, there's nothing wrong with that if a client is ok with it. With Nanami Abe I'm sure it was a different case. So now Shae Lynn is his solution, and he's happy that it's working out for him. I doubt he'll go to anyone else now with two season left to Pyeongchang.

Why do you think David didn’t meet Yuzu's requirements and "didn't give him control "? Jut because you didn't like his programs? All Yuzuru's choreographers create challenging programs for him and push his stamina. Seimei is a killer program in terms of difficulty. It's just that now he copes with difficulty just fine and his stamina's better, as David said himself. And please remember that Yuzu did have his way with David since he made R&J for him in a risky and specific way Yuzu wanted it to be. Yeah, both Brian and David said him no a couple of times with his wish for Phantom but he was so young he couldn’t success with it. Yet, they approached his other choices and opinions.
Shae Lynn is not a laid back choreographer as much as she appears to you. She's very strict in nature and demanding too. Even her choreo making for Yuzu was pretty intense as we could see in a footage, she obviously asks students to interpret her ideas and can forbid something that she thinks won't work out (aka Yuzu's idea to be both Christine and Phantom) It's great that she as like as many choreographers out there allows her students to choose music and direction.
And please remember that Yuzu didn't want to leave David initially.

 

[Raomina]

Why do you think David didn’t meet Yuzu's requirements and "didn't give him control "? Jut because you didn't like his programs? All Yuzuru's choreographers create challenging programs for him and push his stamina. Seimei is a killer program in terms of difficulty. It's just that now he copes with difficulty just fine and his stamina's better, as David said himself. And please remember that Yuzu did have his way with David since he made R&J for him in a risky and specific way Yuzu wanted it to be. Yeah, both Brian and David said him no a couple of times with his wish for Phantom but he was so young he couldn’t success with it. Yet, they approached his other choices and opinions.
Shae Lynn is not a laid back coach as much as she appears to you. She's very strict in nature and demanding too. Even her choreo making for Yuzu was pretty intense as we could see in a footage, she obviously asks students to interpret her ideas and can forbid something that she thinks won't work out (aka Yuzu's idea to be both Christine and Phantom) It's great that she as like as many coaches out there allows her students to choose music and direction.
And please remember that Yuzu didn't want to leave David initially.

Wait, Yuzu wanted to portray both Christine and Phantom in POTO? Didn't he do that for Romeo and Juliet too? It seems like he really wants to push the dichotomy angle quite a bit... :think: has anyone else done that before? I guess only guys would attempt that. I wonder if he wants to do that as a challenge to portray 2 characters or because he's so androgynous and wants to push the gender boundaries that way. It's interesting both ways nonetheless.

 

[PatricksGaze]

Wait, Yuzu wanted to portray both Christine and Phantom in POTO? Didn't he do that for Romeo and Juliet too? It seems like he really wants to push the dichotomy angle quite a bit... :think: has anyone else done that before? I guess only guys would attempt that. I wonder if he wants to do that as a challenge to portray 2 characters or because he's so androgynous and wants to push the gender boundaries that way. It's interesting both ways nonetheless.

Oh please don't get it started again In NDM too. He likes it this way obviously. But recently his programs are great without that feature. I don't think he will ever repeat that pattern because it's risky and faux pas. But he still sticks to power+delicateness duet even in Seimei.

 

[Raomina]

Oh please don't get it started again In NDM too. He likes it this way obviously. But recently his programs are great without that feature. I don't think he will ever repeat that pattern because it's risky and faux pas. But he still sticks to power+delicateness duet even in Seimei.

Lol, I only became a fan last year, so I wasn't aware of the discussions. It would be great to read what people have said before. It's something that is unique to him though, as I don't think anyone else can really pull it off quite as well without looking too over-the-top feminine. I like the power and delicacy duality too... It's similar to the athletic and artistry kinda duality of figure skating itself.

 

[Mango]

Why do you think David didn’t meet Yuzu's requirements and "didn't give him control "? Jut because you didn't like his programs? All Yuzuru's choreographers create challenging programs for him and push his stamina. Seimei is a killer program in terms of difficulty. It's just that now he copes with difficulty just fine and his stamina's better, as David said himself. And please remember that Yuzu did have his way with David since he made R&J for him in a risky and specific way Yuzu wanted it to be. Yeah, both Brian and David said him no a couple of times with his wish for Phantom but he was so young he couldn’t success with it. Yet, they approached his other choices and opinions.
Shae Lynn is not a laid back coach as much as she appears to you. She's very strict in nature and demanding too. Even her choreo making for Yuzu was pretty intense as we could see in a footage, she obviously asks students to interpret her ideas and can forbid something that she thinks won't work out (aka Yuzu's idea to be both Christine and Phantom) It's great that she as like as many coaches out there allows her students to choose music and direction.
And please remember that Yuzu didn't want to leave David initially.

Oy you got me all wrong. I'm defending David. Scroll up a bit to see what I wrote. I've read a lot of negative things about David recently and in the past too with regards to Yuzuru. He himself has admitted to not being able to give the best choreo to Yuzuru because it takes him three seasons to gel with a skater. Yuzuru didn't stay that long. David even complained about Japanese skaters changing choreographers and not developing a rapport with one. Seeing Yuzuru so tired doing those programs made me realize that Yuzuru didn't have the stamina for them. He's gotten stronger so he can now do those complex programs like Seimei without collapsing to the ice. Good for Yuzuru for doing what's best for him. Because honestly even he admitted he missed that 3Lz in the FS at Skate Canada because he was tired.

David explained in his interview that he didn't let him do POTO because Patrick had just finished with it. Seeing as how as soon as he left David he did POTO and then all the information we've heard about him with Seimei it's not illogical to assume that Yuzuru likes having control about his music. Heck he even likes having control about his training. Brian mentioned having to put down his foot to get some things done Brian's way after SC2015. It's not a bad thing to want to be in control. In the end, it's the skater who'll be practising to that music all season long and maybe performing it in exhibitions in the future. But not all choreographers are open to that. David seems to be one of them, considering he didn't let Yuzuru do POTO in their first season together, and Yuzuru had to write him a letter to do R&J 2.0. And that's fine too. Some choreographers work like that. I've heard Lori Nichol offers a few choices to her clients. Nothing wrong with that. But when a skater wants to choose their music but their choreographer has other thoughts there can be some friction you can imagine. Though Yuzuru and David did not dwell on it, as I said earlier, so it's great.

AFAIK Shae Lynn is not a coach. She did coach WeaPo previously, but she's just a choreographer now. She may be strict and demanding when it comes to choreo, but for the past two seasons she has been quite accommodating of Yuzuru's music selections. For Seimei she even went and did research on Noh. I know that in Toronto there is not much about Japanese theatre here apart from a few screenings of Cinema Kabuki put on by the Japan Foundation. She put effort into figuring out what Yuzuru wanted and the background of his music. If she were not willing to work with what he wanted she could have easily told him to go find a Japanese choreographer or skate to music she was more familiar with. But she didn't. As for being both a man and a woman in a program - I'm willing to bet no coach, let alone choreographer, would allow that. I don't know what Yuzuru was thinking, but that kind of stuff is a bit out there for a figure skating program.

It's great that Yuzuru wanted to stay with David. Somewhere along the line someone figured out it wasn't working out so it's best that he's with Shae now. I'm sure you all agree on that at least.

 

[SuzyQ]

A Summer Olympics survey done of women between 20s and 30s, a total of 220 women participated . I used google translation
- Question: The events you most looking forward in the Olympics. Results: First is swimming (40.5%), second is gymnastics (29.1%), third is soccer (24.1%).
- Question: The competition you want to climax in the (raw spectator sports bar) . Results: First is soccer (47.7%), second baseball (22.7%) and third swimming (15.5%).
- Question: The athletes you think is cool handsome. Results: First is Yuzuru Hanyu of figure skating, second is swimming cove Ling Kai and third are Uchimura Kohei of gymnastics and Atsuto Uchida of football.
- Question: The sports you think have the most beautiful/handsome athletes. Results: First is swimming (40.0%), second is gymnastics (30.5%) and third is soccer (26.4%).

How did he randomly appeared in this group of women answers for summer olympics

I wondered who swimming cove Ling Kai is :think:

Now, I understand it's 入江陵介 Ryosuke Irie


http://xxhuyuzero25.xsrv.jp/blog/2016/05/20/post-13236/

Hideo (Alex) and Yuzuru (Sorry, if already posted)

http://i1.wp.com/livedoor.blogimg.jp/xxhugyua/imgs/0/e/0eb34016.jpg

http://i1.wp.com/livedoor.blogimg.jp/xxhugyua/imgs/1/8/1853fc93.jpg

 

[mcq]

Anybody here know what this is about?

https://twitter.com/misayuzulove/status/733861585978941441/

EDIT : Oh there is also this
https://twitter.com/misayuzulove/status/733916616396660737

 

[Sorrento]

Anybody here know what this is about?

https://twitter.com/misayuzulove/status/733861585978941441/

From what I got with Google translator this was kind of ending season results according to which Boyang was named the best Men's athlete and Yuzu the best foreign athlete.

 

[mcq]

From what I got with Google translator this was kind of ending season results according to which Boyang was named the best Men's athlete and Yuzu the best foreign athlete.

Ah thanks! Of all sports? Or just winter sports? This is from CCTV right? Congrats Yuzu!