Yuzuru Hanyu: 2016-17 Season | Page 602 | Golden Skate

Yuzuru Hanyu: 2016-17 Season

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The problem is , his effort in putting all this choreography and transitions between quads is not paying off. Judges will push others with quads anyway to his level of PCS. That's how it is, and he needs to be prepared for it.
I think if he delivers judges still will be on his side for that total package, but you never know
 
The problem is , his effort in putting all this choreography and transitions between quads is not paying off. Judges will push others with quads anyway to his level of PCS. That's how it is, and he needs to be prepared for it.
I think if he delivers judges still will be on his side for that total package, but you never know

Actually, I think it is paying off. There is a reason why when he is clean his PCS is 49/98 points high. It pays off in the GOE of his jumps too. He is still the one who gets the most max GOE on his quads and 3A so far. But well, score is also a BV thing not just a PCS and GOE thing (vice versa). Though who knows, he could have been more consistent without all that steps and transitions. Personally, I hope he would not drop it regardless of scores, that is one main thing that makes his skating unique for me.
 
The problem is , his effort in putting all this choreography and transitions between quads is not paying off. Judges will push others with quads anyway to his level of PCS. That's how it is, and he needs to be prepared for it.
I think if he delivers judges still will be on his side for that total package, but you never know
Actually, I think it is paying off.

I'm still trying to wrap my head on how did Javi got highest in transition in the LP at GPF :scratch2:
 
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Ahhh the quad race :ohwell: - I'm worried about Nathan, he seems to be catching up with Yuzuru's tech score at a crazy pace. He might be a big challenger at Peongchang

And he is young! I think AGE is a factor here. Since Nathan will only be 18 y/o during Pyeongyang2018 think about he else can do. And if he got pass through his nerves during Olympics and skate clean our Yuzuru will need to do a lot of more to have that OGM again! (but OGM or not, he will ALWAYS BE my MOST admire F.Skater:agree:)
 
We'll just have to wait and see how things unfold during the olympic season. The ice is steep (as we've said before) and each competition will be different. Nathan is definitely a talented jumper but I still think Boyang will be better :laugh: . In any case, the difficulty level of Yuzuru's programs is more than the jumps. There's also the transitions and steps (though he doesn't really get rewarded that much for it recently). There is a certain level of etherealness to his programs that none will compare. :hap10:

But surely Nathan will be one of the contenders for the Olympics (that is if he manages to do away from injury). 4CC is just a few days away lets see how things roll. :)
 
I'm still trying to wrap my head on how did Javi got highest in transition in the LP at GPF :scratch2:

1. 2 times + reigning WC boost 2. His transition is actually not bad, not better than Yuzuru but it is not like it is a crossover galore. 3. Yuzu's transition is more concentrated before and after elements rather than in-between, so it might give the impression to /some/ judges that he doesn't have as much and his program is emptier. 4. It is a 0.03 pts difference, it is virtually a tie. Chan, Javi and Hanyu will get about the same PCS no matter what they actually do in their program, that is just the reality now.
 
Actually, I think it is paying off. There is a reason why when he is clean his PCS is 49/98 points high. It pays off in the GOE of his jumps too. He is still the one who gets the most max GOE on his quads and 3A so far. But well, score is also a BV thing not just a PCS and GOE thing (vice versa). Though who knows, he could have been more consistent without all that steps and transitions. Personally, I hope he would not drop it regardless of scores, that is one main thing that makes his skating unique for me.
I'd say it pays for for Yuzuru because his difficulties can justify his PCS and GOE.

But other skaters don't have to do all the transitions and choreographic moves he does to get the same GOE and PCS because, let's say, a funny poster keeps saying:
- Because other men are considered to have better posture, better musicality
- Because other men have better extensions
- Because other men have more ballet ice style

So because of that, Yuzuru HAS to put more transitions into his programs because the judges dislike his unrefined style. :laugh: so per her logic, Yuzuru has nothing special and he must add transitions to get good GOE and PCS. While other men can galore their programs with upper body movements and crossovers the whole program and get the same benefits because they "look more balletic". :dance2: because let's say, men skating has nothing but jumps. So as long as you have the quantity you don't need the quality.

Who cares if Yuzuru has the most amount of transitions? Apparently because he is such a mediocre performer he can not be balletic and look good he must add transitions while other men don't need transitions because they're balletic already. :laugh2: That's her logic and I am afraid maybe some judges believe the same?
 
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Wait, wait.
What are you using for jumps?

4Lo, 4S, 3F // 4Lo-3T, 4T, 3A-2T, 3A-1Lo-3S, 3Lz

and

4Lz, 4Lo, 3F // 4Lo-3T, 4S, 3A-2T, 3A-1Lo-3S, 3Lz

or are you moving the 4Lo combo around?

he can do 2 3T if he does 4Lz lol. Why would he repeat the 4Lo.

I'd say it pays for for Yuzuru because his difficulties can justify his PCS and GOE.

But other skaters don't have to do all the transitions and choreographic moves he does to get the same GOE and PCS because, let's say, a funny poster keeps saying:
- Because other men are considered to have better posture, better musicality
- Because other men have better extensions
- Because other men have more ballet ice style

So because of that, Yuzuru HAS to put more transitions into his programs because the judges dislike his unrefined style. :laugh: so per her logic, Yuzuru has nothing special and he must add transitions to get good GOE and PCS. While other men can galore their programs with upper body movements and crossovers the whole program and get the same benefits because they "look more balletic". :dance2: because let's say, men skating has nothing but jumps. So as long as you hwve the quantity you don't need the quality.
Lol quite the contrary, i think judges like him. Even in 2012 worlds, his PCS is only 2 pts behind Dai even with a fall (and let's be real, his SS and Components back then are not like it is today) so I don't think the judges think of him as unrefined. They just long for him to give them that friggin clean FS so that they can throw all the PCS at him (which they can finally do at NHK and GPF lol) Honestly, even if he reduces his transition a bit and ad more crossovers now, I doubt it will affect his PCS much. Once you reached a status, they can't lower you down. Chan still gets generous PCS even when he bomb nowadays (and frankly, compared to his pre-sochi programs, he reduces his steps and turns nowadays)
 
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Wait, wait.
What are you using for jumps?
4Lo, 4S, 3F // 4Lo-3T, 4T, 3A-2T, 3A-1Lo-3S, 3Lz
and
4Lz, 4Lo, 3F // 4Lo-3T, 4S, 3A-2T, 3A-1Lo-3S, 3Lz
or are you moving the 4Lo combo around?
4lo3T, 4S, 3F // 4Lo, 4T, 3A-2T, 3A-1Lo-3S, 3lz = 104.65 BV
4Lz, 4Lo, 3F // 4S, 4T, 3A-3T, 3A-1Lo-3S, 3Lz = 109.83 BV
 
he can do 2 3T if he does 4Lz lol. Why would he repeat the 4Lo.

Because it pays off. If he's chasing after BV he may have no choice but to abandon the idea of having different quads and simply go for the max that he can do, which is the 4Lz, 2x4Lo and 4S then.

4lo3T, 4S, 3F // 4Lo, 4T, 3A-2T, 3A-1Lo-3S, 3lz = 104.65 BV
4Lz, 4Lo, 3F // 4S, 4T, 3A-3T, 3A-1Lo-3S, 3Lz = 109.83 BV

I don't see that second happening though. He has no quad combo then and he'll want one. Even if we say he keeps the 4T instead of the second 4Lo for the combo, then the 4S will be a 4S-2T (or 3T) and the first 3A combo will then be 3A-2T in the latter case. That'll bring it a bit higher.
 
Lol quite the contrary, i think judges like him. Even in 2012 worlds, his PCS is only 2 pts behind Dai even with a fall (and let's be real, his SS and Components back then are not like it is today) so I don't think the judges think of him as unrefined. They just long for him to give them that friggin clean FS so that they can throw all the PCS at him (which they can finally do at NHK and GPF lol) Honestly, even if he reduces his transition a bit and ad more crossovers now, I doubt it will affect his PCS much. Once you reached a status, they can't lower you down. Chan still gets generous PCS even when he bomb nowadays (and frankly, compared to his pre-sochi programs, he reduces his steps and turns nowadays)
Well ask that poster, per her logic, because Patrick is balletic and skates like a dancer on ice thus he gets all the PCS regardless of transitions. And because Yuzuru can never be a good balletic skater, he must do transitions because he has nothing else to become more remarkable than other men. :roll9: (don't let me start with other men, do I need to ask some professional ballet dancers on Facebook about their posture lol).
 
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Because it pays off. If he's chasing after BV he may have no choice but to abandon the idea of having different quads and simply go for the max that he can do, which is the 4Lz, 2x4Lo and 4S then.



I don't see that second happening though. He has no quad combo then and he'll want one. Even if we say he keeps the 4T instead of the second 4Lo for the combo, then the 4S will be a 4S-2T (or 3T) and the first 3A combo will then be 3A-2T in the latter case. That'll bring it a bit higher.

BV of 4Lz 4Lo 3F /// 4S3T 4T 3A3T 3Alo3S 3Lz is 109.83 while doing 4Lo 4S 3F///4Lo3T 4T 3A2T 3Alo3S 3Lz is only 105-ish because he can only do 2T instead of the 3T for the latter. That is the utmost advantage of having 4 types of quads. (and not having that +rep even with a fall)
 
Because it pays off. If he's chasing after BV he may have no choice but to abandon the idea of having different quads and simply go for the max that he can do, which is the 4Lz, 2x4Lo and 4S then. .
4 different quads is a much safer layout than 4 quads but repeat a quad. He will not have to worry about repeating jumps. With 4lz he can get 109.83 BV which is much higher.
 
Well ask that poster, per her logic, because Patrick is balletic and skates like a dancer on ice thus he gets all the PCS regardless of transitions. And because Yuzuru can never be a good balletic skater, he must do transitions because he has nothing else to become more remarkable than other men. :roll9: (don't let me start with other men, do I need to ask some professional ballet dancers on Facebook about their posture lol).

Patrick I can understand, but Javi... better extensions? :unsure: Anywho, Yuzu has pretty good line, alright. He can still improve of course and extend himself more and hold his landing posture perhaps a bit longer but he improved already alright, no longer obviously hunch and drop his shoulder, is it really that hard to see? :eek: This is coming from me who can't stand watching him before because his posture bothers me a lot :hopelessness:
 
BV of 4Lz 4Lo 3F /// 4S3T 4T 3A3T 3Alo3S 3Lz is 109.83 while doing 4Lo 4S 3F///4Lo3T 4T 3A2T 3Alo3S 3Lz is only 105-ish because he can only do 2T instead of the 3T for the latter. That is the utmost advantage of having 4 types of quads. (and not having that +rep even with a fall)

Hell, you're right about the 3T there. I should not be using programs, I am way better with calculating by hand or in my head because I actually think when I do that. :laugh2: I didn't even notice I put 2A instead of the 2T there when I picked the jumps :hopelessness: :slink:
 
Hell, you're right about the 3T there. I should not be using programs, I am way better with calculating by hand or in my head because I actually think when I do that. :laugh2: I didn't even notice I put 2A instead of the 2T there when I picked the jumps :hopelessness: :slink:

Yuzu does that too with his hand and in his head :agree:...even with a bandage head
 
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Hell, you're right about the 3T there. I should not be using programs, I am way better with calculating by hand or in my head because I actually think when I do that. :laugh2: I didn't even notice I put 2A instead of the 2T there when I picked the jumps :hopelessness: :slink:

This is his best scenario BV-wise actually. It is even higher than Nathan's 5 quads program. Actually, Yuzuru's current long program's BV is higher than Nathan's, because Yuzuru backload all his combos and 2 of his quads, despite doing "easier" jumps. He is 3 pts behind in the SP but tbh they are not that far-off BV wise, and we know Yuzu has the advantage in PCS and GOE
I think it is good that he trains 4Lz as a backup-plan. But it is not like his current layout is behind the quadsters BV-wise. Which is why he (and his fans) should not freak out if the young ones land things. New phenoms will always arise, before Yuzu there was Gachinski, then Han Yan, Farris, Brown, Kovtun, Boyang, Shoma, Nathan etc etc. But not everyone fulfill their potential. Yuzu trains with a 12 y.o who can land 4Lz, 4S and 4T + a 15 y.o who lands 4S, 4T and 4Lo. I am sure he of all people knows best not to undermine youngsters :biggrin:
 
Actually, I think it is paying off. There is a reason why when he is clean his PCS is 49/98 points high. It pays off in the GOE of his jumps too. He is still the one who gets the most max GOE on his quads and 3A so far. But well, score is also a BV thing not just a PCS and GOE thing (vice versa). Though who knows, he could have been more consistent without all that steps and transitions. Personally, I hope he would not drop it regardless of scores, that is one main thing that makes his skating unique for me.

I don't think he will. At this point, he looks like he's chasing his ideal vision of skating a lot (though of course he still cares about winning). And he doesn't like to back off from his challenges.

Armchair speculation: if he cuts some transitions going in and out of jumps in the beginning of season to stabilize a new jump before adding them back in, I do think it would help with consistency. Like a lot of people have said, he lands beautiful 4L's in practice but hasn't been able to in competition thus far. I'm sure a late start in training is part of it, but then, that would be even bigger reason to lessen the steps/transitions for the time being or move some steps and transitions to in-between? Don't skaters develop and up their program throughout the season a lot?

In the end, I understand that he himself is analytical/strategic and knows his current situation and what his arsenal relative to the rest of the field could be. As long as he doesn't overdo the mind over matter thing and batter his body to pulp <--(Borser please restrain), I look forward to a brilliant fight from him regardless.
 
well. this is why figure skating is subjective sports.It's old disscution though.
Chan is a ultimate skater for many people who admire skills and line most regardless of excuting jumps. And looks like some judge agree.
I'm not his uber but it's understandable.
Unless they bash yuzu's , there is no need to involve. Of course, Javi too. I don't always agree his score, but his career and improvment prove his greatness.

Someone never like yuzu's style , but so what? I realized persuading attitude about preference is not good for this sports.Let them be. But Ironically,this forum is being for that haha.

top men and younger quadsters have each ideal figures and strategies. it's so unpredictable ,everyone should fight for spots.
 
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