Yuzuru Hanyu: 2016-17 Season

[NordEsque]

Yes, I do worry a bit about how he would take a loss, especially if he does not skate well. Having Brian as a coach is probably a great thing, and he does seem quite self-aware. I mean he is aware that he potentially might lose, he seems more mentally strong for that scenario than Patrick Chan was. The fact that he is not going around saying he will stop after PC18 anymore (and wasn't it very long ago he said so?) is calming me down a bit, and also his plans for 4A, since that seems to imply that he is not making PC the purpose of his life. Obviously he wants to win, and I really hope judges get their PCS scoring together so that the best skate wins but it can be good mentally to not be the single expected winner going in

I'm not looking forward to the self-proclaimed sport journalists and figure skating "experts" on twitter saying Hanyu is overscored or Chen underscored though if Yuzuru with his packed program deservedly wins though :disapp: really wish there was less of a national bias in sports and I also think that the ISU as a way of promoting figure skating should do fun/educational youtube videos where they show and explain figure skating elements/moves such as steps, transitions and so on. It would make figure skating more 'accessible' so to speak and the discussions around the sport might become more nuanced *maybe I'm a bit naive*

 

[mcq]

I think Yuzuru's fate is predominantly in his own hands - in his own performance. Same for all the other skaters.

Having said all that, the few times when there are shennanigans... Olympics are where they are likely to be worst. Certainly, scoring can go through the roof, like Ladies in 2010 and 2014... even the most extravagent "nationals" scoring doesn't come close to that. But even then, I'm not convinced that's due to "politics"...

There is a controversy over ladies result in 2010? I thought it was the men's?

Look, politics aside, people still need to land things to win. Russia's poster girl at Sochi is actually Yulia, but she didn't do well in the individual event, thus Adelina was pushed. Like Meoima said, Kwan has everything going on for her at Salt lake city; a strong fed, the crowd on her back, skating at home and is the reigning world champion. But she made several mistakes and no amount of politics in the world can help her win that OGM, even though she was the biggest star in skating back then. Regardless, she skated past SLC and win another world title + a bronze. She missed OGM twice but I don't think it took away from her legacy in skating. Oly is still in a year, many things can still change until then. Why freak out over oly now when 4CC and worlds are knocking on your doorstep.

Yes, I do worry a bit about how he would take a loss, especially if he does not skate well. Having Brian as a coach is probably a great thing, and he does seem quite self-aware. I mean he is aware that he potentially might lose, he seems more mentally strong for that scenario than Patrick Chan was. The fact that he is not going around saying he will stop after PC18 anymore (and wasn't it very long ago he said so?) is calming me down a bit, and also his plans for 4A, since that seems to imply that he is not making PC the purpose of his life. Obviously he wants to win, and I really hope judges get their PCS scoring together so that the best skate wins but it can be good mentally to not be the single expected winner going in

I feel that with their experience after 2016 worlds, Yuzuru and his team will be more careful and approach things differently. Going into worlds last year, he was the clear absolute favorite. I think every skating "expert", fans, blogger, commentator, journalist etc expect him to win. Not only them, I bet the judges, JSF, ANA team, TCC coaching team, or even Yuzuru and Javi themselves expect Yuzu to win. Especially after the SP, I doubt there is a single person who would have thought he would have missed it. So when the unexpected happen, it came as a shock to everyone, and both Yuzuru himself and his team don't really know what to do and how to handle it accordingly. I hope they took those experience and making it a lesson on how to handle things in the future.

Now, he is going in not as the fave. I hope it would take a bit of the pressure off him. They also really do things differently this season, with Yuzu staying more in Toronto, going to mid-second-half-season competition (4CC), and him looking to be not peaking yet + if you look at his OP training during GPF, he does seem to train more carefully? Hopefully by worlds he will be in top condition, both mentally and physically.

 

[LeeJiHye19]

Aha3 yes! That damn perfectionist of him . He surely have regrets, but i sincerely hope for him somehow to feel happy with his perf regardless of the medal.
His perfectionism and regrets all the time worried me more these days with all the news of gracie

gracie as in grace gold?

 

[YesWay]

There is a controversy over ladies result in 2010?

No, there was no controvesy over the result, the winner was clear - just the score was crazy...!

 

[Rissa]

Care to calm this hyper worried Hanyu fan ? I see people already saying that Yuzu's time as the King is over and such... I have lots of things happening IRL now so i don't have the concentration to sit and analyze the situation so can someone tell me with apples and oranges how much of a threat Nathan could be for 2018? I don't feel like he could snatch the World title simply bc i feel like Yuzu hasn't peaked yet, my main worry is Olympics...

I think Nathan is a huge threat because of that monstrous tech content. His PCS at Nationald were overscored but if he remains fairly consistent, he may earn 90 PCS next year even if he doesn't improve his transitions. Now, imo, if he does improve transitions, he'll be at risk of not being able to execute the whole content. Who knows what will happen. Clean vs. clean Yuzuru should win at the international stage but heh, hiw often does clean vs. clean happen. Yuzuru will have no cushion against a clean Nathan. Basically, Yuzuru will be a Patrick against Nathan's Yzuru.

Plus yes, there are Javi and Patrick to consider too, it's not like they're no threat.

Eta: lol, I was thinking about Olympics, not Worlds this year. As for Worlds, I think that Nathan is not quite there yet: he's not going to have home crowd and judges behind his back, and he's bound to be tired from a long season. He seemed to be in top form at Nationals - I'm not sure he'll be able to keep it through 4CCs up to Worlds. Yuzuru, on the other hand and as mentioned before, doesn't seem to have peaked this season yet and he seemed to train more carefull - less? - during the GP season on order not to overexhaust his body and shift the peak for later. Javi's form also seemed questionable on the GP circuit but he's got a history to peak at Worlds. To sum up: if I had to bet, I'd put Nathan on the podium but in the bronze position.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

This could be a stretch, but Yuzu's also one of the few Japanese gold medal hopefuls at the next Korean Winter Olympics - there's already conflict between the Japanese and Korean governments right now about the PC2018 website reokdo/Takeshima. Just some food for thought. We all know how political and corrupt the Olympics could be.

Personally, I don't think this is going to be much trouble... Yuzu is really popular in South Korea from all that I know. And then there was that GPF in SK once that Mao won over Yuna. I know there is trouble between SK & Japan, but I really don't expect them to hold down Yuzu. To be honest, if it's a factor at all, I think it might well be an advantage for him, with his popularity in Asia in general.
But as with all speculation, we'll have to wait and see.

 

[mcq]

No, there was no controvesy over the result, the winner was clear - just the score was crazy...!

OT. Eh how so? Yuna barely even get any +3 GOE there, and her PCS is 33/70s. If you compare to ladies scoring now, I'd say the score was not crazy at all. The score back then is of course higher because of the spiral sequence?

 

[Marin]

I think there is no use of being worried at all, everything is in his hands, he is just 22 -so no age issue This age is considered as a peaking years for male skater,he is progressing and isn't stagnant like Chan circa 2011-2014. He is monitoring and evaluating juniors very well, studying them and planning accordingly. We witnessed this well this season, when he put lo and 4 quads , some considered this as a madness, also we know he has a quad lutz somewhere on shelf in case....So comparing him to Chan is really laughable and not adequate I think.

As a reminder I am going to look through his career a bit. Following him for 7 years gave me these memories: in 2010 everyone thought Gachinski would be his main rival, when he managed to get bronze at WC 2011, then Han Yan happened, He won JWC 2012 , had some great skates and made GPF too, many people thought Han Yan and Yuzuru rivalry will last for ages. Later it was Chan from "evil" Canadian fed who was beating him all the time and he had to up his tes and put quad sal in order to beat him, then it was D10 who had Korean roots "apparently" was politicking and was considered to be main threat for Yuzu's gold medal in 2018, then it was Javi with judges and Spanish fed behind, oh, yeah I have forgotten in 2015 it was Nam who was raising star of that "evil" Canadian fed and trained with Orser,he even beat Yuzu's tes in Shanghai. So many got worried. in 2015 Boyang followed, who emerged with huge tes and people were thinking he would get pcs boost in a year or two, then there is Shoma who is JSF rising star and "evi"l JSF is willing to " throw" Yuzuru away and keep shoma as n1. ... now it is Chen who has the most powerful usa fed behind and zoueva who will politick for him, as she is best in this.... at the end Hanyu Yuzuru doesn't care about them, I mean he cares and he is prepared, his analytical mind is astonishing.He is evolving and improving all the time. All Yuzuru needs is to stay healthy and deliver when it matters. Of course sport is not pure and pristine clean but at the end delivering your best always counts.
There is 1 year left and by next GPF I am already predicting Jun Hwan Cha added to above-mentioned list, host power you know
It is a pretty long time before OG game can change several times, so I prefer to worry/freak out about WC and 4cc yet )

 

[YesWay]

OT. Eh how so? Yuna barely even get any +3 GOE there, and her PCS is 33/70s. If you compare to ladies scoring now, I'd say the score was not crazy at all. The score back then is of course higher because of the spiral sequence?

I'm not going to go into the details, in Yuzuru's fan fest.

 

[NordEsque]

Now, he is going in not as the fave. I hope it would take a bit of the pressure off him. They also really do things differently this season, with Yuzu staying more in Toronto, going to mid-second-half-season competition (4CC), and him looking to be not peaking yet + if you look at his OP training during GPF, he does seem to train more carefully? Hopefully by worlds he will be in top condition, both mentally and physically.

Yes, in interviews he has also spoken about learning how to rest and been very positive about TCC (which he's always been admittingly) but last year's hardships and coming back seems to me to have made him grow a lot and his improved English and experience of support and the fact that he seems to try to spend as much time in Toronto as possible are all good signs hopefully. I really hope it all comes together for Worlds Since he had the flu and so I think going to 4CC is a good idea, Yuzuru seems to do better at the second competition generally when there's been a break

 

[Meoima]

I'm not going to go into the details, in Yuzuru's fan fest.

The different GOE factor from that time also played a part.
As for Yuzuru, as long as he skates somewhat cleanly at Olympic, I think he will be happy. He won Olympic 2014 with a flawed LP, so if he could redeem that at Olympic 2018, it will be amazing. I hope we can see a historical performance regardless of whatever the outcome will be.

Personally I believe that politics play a huge part in figure skating, but again, it's useless to talk about the political side because we can do nothing to change it. We know expectation and pressure can kill all the chances, so better just to pray hard and support Yuzuru whatever he will do.

 

[LeeJiHye19]

it was D10 who had Korean roots "apparently" was politicking and was considered to be main threat for Yuzu's gold medal in 2018

when does D10 become a threat for Yuzu? I mean with his consistency? or was it because of his 4CC win in 2015, without very known competitors against him? And Uno was just a junior making his senior debut

GPF I am already predicting Jun Hwan Cha added to above-mentioned list, host power you know

I am afraid that they will do that to poor Jun...But TBH I don't see Jun as a threat at all!

 

[mcq]

I think there is no use of being worried at all, everything is in his hands, he is just 22 -so no age issue This age is considered as a peaking years for male skater,he is progressing and isn't stagnant like Chan circa 2011-2014. He is monitoring and evaluating juniors very well, studying them and planning accordingly. We witnessed this well this season, when he put lo and 4 quads , some considered this as a madness, also we know he has a quad lutz somewhere on shelf in case....So comparing him to Chan is really laughable and not adequate I think.

As a reminder I am going to look through his career a bit. Following him for 7 years gave me these memories: in 2010 everyone thought Gachinski would be his main rival, when he managed to get bronze at WC 2011, then Han Yan happened, He won JWC 2012 , had some great skates and made GPF too, many people thought Han Yan and Yuzuru rivalry will last for ages. Later it was Chan from "evil" Canadian fed who was beating him all the time and he had to up his tes and put quad sal in order to beat him, then it was D10 who had Korean roots "apparently" was politicking and was considered to be main threat for Yuzu's gold medal in 2018, then it was Javi with judges and Spanish fed behind, oh, yeah I have forgotten in 2015 it was Nam who was raising star of that "evil" Canadian fed and trained with Orser,he even beat Yuzu's tes in Shanghai. So many got worried. in 2015 Boyang followed, who emerged with huge tes and people were thinking he would get pcs boost in a year or two, then there is Shoma who is JSF rising star and "evi"l JSF is willing to " throw" Yuzuru away and keep shoma as n1. ... now it is Chen who has the most powerful usa fed behind and zoueva who will politick for him, as she is best in this.... at the end Hanyu Yuzuru doesn't care about them, I mean he cares and he is prepared, his analytical mind is astonishing.He is evolving and improving all the time. All Yuzuru needs is to stay healthy and deliver when it matters. Of course sport is not pure and pristine clean but at the end delivering your best always counts.
There is 1 year left and by next GPF I am already predicting Jun Hwan Cha added to above-mentioned list, host power you know
It is a pretty long time before OG game can change several times, so I prefer to worry/freak out about WC and 4cc yet )

^^^ Agreed. Also there was Machida circa 2013-2015 after he came second to Hanyu at worlds by 0.3 pts. Everyone (and Japanese media) already set it up for Hanyu vs Machida back then after Chan's hiatus. Then there is also Kovtun, who won 2 GPS and beat Hanyu circa 2014-2015, the Russian rising star who beat Plushenko and will surpass Hanyu. Maybe I am desensitized now because this happen every season and every single time people would freak out. Performing at the highest level and stay on top for a long period of time is not an easy task, and that is what I think makes a real champ. There will be more next, it could be Jun Hwan or Aliev, or Vincent Zhou etc etc.

 

[Yatagarasu]

Personally I believe that politics play a huge part in figure skating, but again, it's useless to talk about the political side because we can do nothing to change it.

Yes, I agree with this. Politicking is mega-important in skating, I think it's better to just accept it exists and USFSA is an incredibly strong Federation. For me, the only thing I take from that, as we indeed can do can do bupkis about it, is that Chen's PCS is going to balloon now and it should be expected. It's just how that goes. At GPF he had ~41/84+ and it got to 44/91 at Nats. I believe it'll settle there without any change from him and even though the Nats FS program is emptier than the GPF one. It is what it is though. With a clean Yuzuru, he still has it. It's not just Yuzuru that'll be affected either, Japan's #2 is in a bigger pickle, and Javier and Chan especially.

I'd also focus on 4CC and Worlds, these are coming. In some ways this is all terribly exciting for me because the best Yuzuru is the most challenged Yuzuru and he shines then. Doing well under these circumstances give it all an oomph of a kind. I am not sure if that makes me a masochist though

 

[YesWay]

Politicking is mega-important in skating, I think it's better to just accept it exists and USFSA is an incredibly strong Federation.

Proof?

No, I thought not...

It's mega-important to skating fandom, as one of the many unsubstantiated but very convenient ways to "explain" scores that people don't like... or to belittle other skaters' achievements... without having to know anything about scoring, PCS/GoE criteria, protocols, or figure skating... and without any proper analysis or justification...

At GPF he had ~41/84+ and it got to 44/91 at Nats.

The ISU doesn't lend any credence to scores awarded at national competitions.

We shouldn't either...

 

[PatricksGaze]

Yes, in interviews he has also spoken about learning how to rest and been very positive about TCC (which he's always been admittingly) but last year's hardships and coming back seems to me to have made him grow a lot and his improved English and experience of support and the fact that he seems to try to spend as much time in Toronto as possible are all good signs hopefully. I really hope it all comes together for Worlds Since he had the flu and so I think going to 4CC is a good idea, Yuzuru seems to do better at the second competition generally when there's been a break

I admire his attitude a lot. Yuzuru is a Japanese guy who came to TCC without any normal English to save his life, then he improved a lot over the years and reached a point where he's seemingly no longer having communication troubles. And then he has many down lows in his career, losing world title twice etc. And he blames no one but his own skills, he trusts his team and believes in communication trouble being one of the main obstacles on his way. So he strives to improve his English, train besides his coaches in TCC more, communicate more. I don't know details but it seemed like he didn't have any doubt in his team, team's support and competence. That's not rare or it is indeed rare.
After realizing how great he is after all that I'm just gonna trust him in any thing. I've never seen a more reasonable, sane, adequate athlete in my life. You just know he's gonna pull through, if his health is enough.
Okay, I got sentimental here. Going back to my glittery bubble.

 

[Yatagarasu]

Proof?
No, I thought not...

Of course there is proof, various scores across various years for specific skaters. You're welcome to think otherwise of course, that every single win or placement was always deserved, nobody is stopping you. I still prefer living in reality where yes, I tend to look at protocols quite often. Right now, considering the events, Boyang is a perfect example of someone who has the "wrong" nationality.

And the ISU doesn't acknowledge the scores, no. That it doesn't affect anything from then on? Ok :noshake: But again, we'll agree to disagree, wrong thread for it anyway.

 

[YesWay]

Of course there is proof, various scores across various years for specific skaters.

Show this "proof"

You're welcome to think otherwise of course, that every single win or placement was always deserved, nobody is stopping you.

And the ISU doesn't acknowledge the scores, no. That it doesn't affect anything from then on? Ok But again, we'll agree to disagree, wrong thread for it anyway.

Really? You stoop to ridiculing me personally? Is that supposed to invalidate what I say?
Ad hominem attacks are a logical fallacy.

You have also invented a meaning to my words that was not there.
Straw man attacks are also logical fallacies.

I do NOT believe that "every single win or placement was always deserved", nor have I ever said so. You simply made that up.

What I DO believe in, is proper arguments to show if/when scoring was wrong - based on the rules, the scores, the protocols, the PCS/GoE criteria, knowledge of what actual judges look for and what they value, proper/complete analysis of performances vs others at the same competitions.

Examine evidence first, reach conclusion last.
If people can do that, THEN is the time to look for explanations, conspiracies etc.

I do NOT believe in starting with a conclusion... before there is any proof of incorrect scoring... before doing any proper analysis, or indeed - without doing any analysis at all... even before the protocols are posted... and then trying to find evidence to support the conclusion, or wheeling out unsubstantiated conspiracy theories to "explain" it...

Have a nice life.

 

[Yatagarasu]

Really? You stoop to ridiculing me personally? Is that supposed to invalidate what I say?
Ad hominem attacks are a logical fallacy.

Just for the record, I changed the smiley after I posted as I realized how it may be taken, you just quoted me right away, so apologies, and then added Boyang again later. It was not meant as ridicule. I am genuinely puzzled that one would think that.

But again, wrong thread so no, I won't answer further especially as just recently there was a long thread or two with plenty of analysis here on this forum and yes, I will, thanks.

 

[itiahs]

Now that anonymous judging is done with, would be interesting experiment to compile data for individual judges. anybody good at statistics?
Anyways, thinking about next competitions is giving me heart palpitations. I've been repeating to myself his words that "sports are cruel"...