Yuzuru Hanyu announces retirement

[kolyadafan2002]

There, fixed it for you. Reasonable post otherwise, but why some keep harping on Yuzuru's few competitive fails (i.e. several medals other than gold, and one off-podium in the span of 2 Olympic cycles), I'll never get. Unless you're considering WD due to injury a 'fail'. That's a very weird definition of 'not delivering' if you ask me. Maybe it's one which is only applied to Hanyu.

I mean, I agree with you. I can understand because of recent issues - no doubt, in the past he's produced spectacular competitions. He is a two time Olympic champion, and won more consecutive GPF than I can count. And no doubt was able to produce magic at the last two national championships.
It's more last few WC and recent OC that people talk about, but I reiterate my point - it doesn't matter about whether or not he can continue to deliver in competitions - people enjoy his skating, and will continue to enjoy on YouTube. People watch for the technical mastery and musicality, not for just competition. The rest doesn't matter so much, he's won everything already.

 

[surimi]

I mean, I agree with you. I can understand because of recent issues - no doubt, in the past he's produced spectacular competitions. He is a two time Olympic champion, and won more consecutive GPF than I can count. And no doubt was able to produce magic at the last two national championships.
It's more last few WC and recent OC that people talk about, but I reiterate my point - it doesn't matter about whether or not he can continue to deliver in competitions - people enjoy his skating, and will continue to enjoy on YouTube. People watch for the technical mastery and musicality, not for just competition. The rest doesn't matter so much, he's won everything already.

Yes, this. Let's agree to... agree, then.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I think it'll be difficult to ever build a figure skating fanbase as dedicated as Hanyu, however maybe skaters who become celebrity personalities who were skaters (e.g. Adam Rippon, Torville and Dean) will be able to do well from getting engagement from those who are less acquainted with figure skating as a sport. That's the only thing I can see that will allow somebody to succeed in the way that Hanyu has, as purely in terms of figure skater appeal nobody can match him (except maybe Yuna Kim, but even then that's a big maybe). Other than that, in terms of domestic appeal somebody like Plushenko might appeal to Russian fanbases and gain youtube popularity that way.

Anyways good luck to Hanyu, it'll be interesting to watch his performances and enjoy them. Even if he couldn't deliver in competition, that's not why people are watching on YouTube - they enjoy his skating, not just competitive performances. And that's certainly why I enjoy his YouTube performances. No need for people to be rude about it.

I would say his accolades and performances certainly show that he was able to deliver in competition. He didn't have a ton of both clean SP + clean LP competitions (not many skaters do, especially with his jump content), but he had some very strong skates. He had two clean Olympics SPs to set himself up for those wins. His 2018 Olympics also had a strong FS to win that competition decisively. He was always in the medal mix, and producing very difficult elements, even if he would intermittently pop or fall on jumps (he's human after all). Sure, towards the latter part of his career, he lost to Chen pretty often but I don't think that's a matter of "under-delivering", as that is always a tall order for anyone. While the scores don't always show it, he usually made Chen work for the wins, and was usually the only one who could challenge Chen. He had a ton of clean SPs throughout his career, and in most freeskates in his past few seasons, he would land at least 2 clean quads (even once landed 5 quads) and his 3A was extremely consistent - which for any skater would be a dream-level of delivery in the FS. On top of that there weren't many times you could say he wasn't committed to delivering a good performance (which is what I look for when considering if a skater "delivers") - like many skaters' programs, the first half was sometimes a bit "lazy/noodly arms" and jump focused, but the second half was usually performed with commitment, expression and intensity.

 

[karne]

{sigh} You really have a bee in your bonnet about searching out and feverishly obsessing over his fans moves, don't you? Why? Now he's out of competition, you don't need to.

You were the one who revived the thread by bragging about how great and wonderful Hanyu's fans are. I really don't know what else you expected, especially when such an egregious piece of conduct had just happened against the man himself, and all for the heinous crime of having a typo in his tweet.

Fandom, especially these days and in sport as in everything else, is not a zero-sum game (except maybe in the Chinese market and even here we are talking millions, many millions before it comes to that). Yuzuru always was lightning in a bottle, but surely isn't the only decorated skater who has what it takes to appeal to a wider range of people worldwide. Do I think they'll do at least partly as well as he might? We don't even know what that will be, so it's anyone's guess.

And look. This year the GPF is looking to fill at least a respectable number of rinkside seats, get livestream numbers and please sponsors without the Russian women, most - if not all? I'm not sure - of the OGMs and their biggest superstar. Anything - and I do mean anything - that gets people interested and talking and happy and skaters thinking there may be a possible future has to be good.

But here's the problem, as CSG said. The overwhelming majority of Hanyu fans are not skating fans. They are Hanyu fans, and Hanyu fans only. They will not support such things as done by another skater because they do not give a rat's patootie about skating.

This is the fanbase gloating that Hanyu had more subscribers than the ISU, this is the fanbase cackling and hoping that the ISU goes bankrupt because Hanyu doesn't compete anymore, this is the fanbase making up wild conspiracies that the ISU chose Sheffield because they knew they could not sell tickets without Hanyu, this is the fanbase who is actively hoping to see skaters skating before empty arenas this season in some kind of "vengeance".

The same result is simply not reproduceable for other skaters. It only happened for Hanyu because his fanbase is absolutely mind-bogglingly insane.

 

[yugra]

This is the fanbase gloating that Hanyu had more subscribers than the ISU

Indeed you're right that only Yuzu has an exceptional fanbase. I think, it is a longing for a "bright personality in the history" in the dreary postmodern age. And can you imagine how powerful that is? But it is not something that we need to be afraid of, this should rejoice. Because this can be used for the benefit of our favorite sport.
I believe this power really should be used to advance figure skating interests.

I think, people do not gloat over the ISU but hope for reforms. And if anyone has the this opportunity - it is Yuzuru. Because he has a lot of support, resolve and will.
But let's see what the future will hold.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

But here's the problem, as CSG said. The overwhelming majority of Hanyu fans are not skating fans. They are Hanyu fans, and Hanyu fans only. They will not support such things as done by another skater because they do not give a rat's patootie about skating.

This is the fanbase gloating that Hanyu had more subscribers than the ISU, this is the fanbase cackling and hoping that the ISU goes bankrupt because Hanyu doesn't compete anymore, this is the fanbase making up wild conspiracies that the ISU chose Sheffield because they knew they could not sell tickets without Hanyu, this is the fanbase who is actively hoping to see skaters skating before empty arenas this season in some kind of "vengeance".

The same result is simply not reproduceable for other skaters. It only happened for Hanyu because his fanbase is absolutely mind-bogglingly insane.

https://c.tenor.com/jaMDeDekQisAAAAM/its-true-tho-janet-jackson.gif

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Indeed you're right that only Yuzu has an exceptional fanbase. I think, it is a longing for a "bright personality in the history" in the dreary postmodern age. And can you imagine how powerful that is? But it is not something that we need to be afraid of, this should rejoice. Because this can be used for the benefit of our favorite sport.
I believe this power really should be used to advance figure skating interests.

I think, people do not gloat over the ISU but hope for reforms. And if anyone has the this opportunity - it is Yuzuru. Because he has a lot of support, resolve and will.
But let's see what the future will hold.

I love your optimism, but the main problem is that the vast majority of the fanbase are convinced that the ISU was/is incontrovertibly "against him". As such, the more fervent part of the fandom doesn't consider someone a 'true' Hanyu fan unless they are expressly and openly against the ISU. The only acceptable views of the ISU is derision, cynicism, or even anger (although this has got to the point that extreme devotees have held up protest signs or even defaced arenas); any show of support towards the ISU will have you ostracized by the fandom's community. Thus, most of this fanbase will never support the ISU -- and by extension figure skating -- now that Hanyu is retired.

To many of them, the ISU is just some monster who was merely 'using' Hanyu to fill seats and now in his retirement he's "free of them" (lol, as if he couldn't have retired whenever he wanted to). Not sure what the ISU should have done - should they have compelled the judges to give Hanyu/ the same lofty scores his own fans felt he was entitled to (even when Hanyu won people griped he should have been scored higher), while dropping the scores of his rivals? Should the ISU have implemented rules designed to maximize Hanyu's scoring potential (e.g. the base value of Hanyu's fairly consistent quad loop should have been boosted to be worth more than the base value of the quad lutz/quad flip -- which coincidently happen to be much less consistent/non-existent for Hanyu but are consistent jumps for his rivals; the quad axel - which Hanyu or anyone else haven't even landed yet - wasn't worth enough points and the stingy base value was intended to dissuade Hanyu from attempting it, etc.)? Should the ISU have featured Hanyu more prominently in their communications/events, instead of sharing the love with other skaters and disciplines who were bringing in comparatively less revenue?

As karne mentioned, most of them aren't primed to support the ISU, but in fact, the other way around -- they are eager to see the ISU crumble to "prove" that the ISU needed Hanyu and not the other way around. But let's not get it twisted -- if not for the ISU making figure skating happen, Hanyu (or any elite skater) would not have the career/relevancy/popularity that they've had, and that's a fact. The ISU existed long before Hanyu and will continue to exist after him, regardless of whether or not they have the subsequent support of his fans.

 

[yugra]

we'll see.
that's all I can say at this point.

 

[surimi]

Dear mods, can this thread be closed now, please? Now some appear to be bringing out their crystal balls and making judgements about Hanyu fans, naturally based only on the number of vocal posters on forums and social media. This has nothing to do with Hanyu retiring, this is just deteriorating into yet another round of fandom bashing / fandom defense back and forth, starring the same people who have engaged in this activity here for years. I would think Hanyu's retirement does not deserve this, OTOH, his YT channel maybe deserves its own thread, or being moved into his fanfest.

 

[Magill]

So who is this Fandom guy some people here love to discuss so much? I never saw him skate. Yet judging by the intensity of emotions, he deserves to have his own thread here where posters could happily share their disgust without being unnecessarily interrupted by those who wish to discuss Yuzuru Hanyu the skater. What do you think? Hanyu Fandom Anti-Fans Confession Corner sounds good enough for the title? Will it suit you well?

 

[Magill]

On a more serious note though I hope whoever says that whatever fandom does this or that is well aware they talk about thousands, hundreds of thousands or millions of people who cannot possibly feel, think and behave in the same way. This is just the same stereotype as saying Jews are like that, gay people are like that, or blondes are like that. Women are like that. Men are like that. Mathematicians are like that. Actors are like that. His fans are like that. Her fans are like that. People are like that.
None of this can possibly be true for all of them.
Majority? Was there any research done to know the numbers and percentages? If yes, please share a link. I'd be truly curious to see it.

 

[Arigato]

You're clearly not familiar with Japanese language, otherwise you'd know that phrases like 'please support me' are fixed polite phrases in Japanese

That anyone would think "please support me" is an exclusive comment uttered only by Hanyu is amusing.


"Please continue to support me from now on."

The above quote is from Shoma Uno.

Furthermore, comments such as "please support me" or "show lots of love for my . . ." are phrases frequently used in South Korea, along with "fighting" (pronounced hwaiting) which means good luck. Learning about cultures other than our own might be a prudent investment of time.

 

[yesterday]

I do not stand on one "side" or the "other" here but what was interesting to see was the increased number of "selling tickets" (mostly GP I guess) threads on this forum that started right after Yuzuru's announcement. Coincidence?

 

[karne]

I do not stand on one "side" or the "other" here but what was interesting to see was the increased number of "selling tickets" (mostly GP I guess) threads on this forum that started right after Yuzuru's announcement. Coincidence?

No, classic Hanyu fan behaviour. They bought up all the tickets hoping to see their man, and when he retired they are selling them off in a sulk, because they do not give two hoots about skating, only about him.

 

[Magill]

No, classic Hanyu fan behaviour. They bought up all the tickets hoping to see their man, and when he retired they are selling them off in a sulk, because they do not give two hoots about skating, only about him.

Well, even assuming you're right, it is a typical market behavior not limited to any particular field or fanbase and well known to anyone familiar with selling tickets. When you have a superstar participating - ticket sales go bonkers. When the superstar withdraws - ticket returns go bonkers. When you replace one superstar with another one - both sales and returns might go bonkers as you might have different people wanting / not wanting to attend. Sellers try to fence themselves against it for example by making the tickets "non-refundable" and avoid the headache. Then other "unofficial" sales channels open up, e.g. on social media.
I am not saying it is good or bad, just normal and to be expected. Some people go for the show, some for an individual artist. Some want to see the movie, some go for a particular actor. That's normal and that's life. No moral obligation to go one way or the other.
Unless you are the one who sells the tickets and gets the headache, what's so wrong with it?

 

[Mathman]

They do not give two hoots about skating, only about him.

As is their prerogative.

 

[karne]

I am not saying it is good or bad, just normal and to be expected. Some people go for the show, some for an individual artist. Some want to see the movie, some go for a particular actor. That's normal and that's life. No moral obligation to go one way or the other.
Unless you are the one who sells the tickets and gets the headache, what's so wrong with it?

Because people who buy a ticket to a movie to go see a particular actor do not only enter the movie when the actor is on screen, and then leave rudely when the actor goes off screen. They stay for the whole movie.

 

[4everchan]

Because people who buy a ticket to a movie to go see a particular actor do not only enter the movie when the actor is on screen, and then leave rudely when the actor goes off screen. They stay for the whole movie.

that was my main problem with some of the fans... I went to ACI twice. In a bleacher set up... I had no problem purchasing tickets because I did it ahead of time... not much of a risk for cheap prices and a local competition for me... but I heard a lot of people complaining that they couldn't get tickets for their children who are young skaters, even some parents from skaters competing had to beg everyone they knew to get access as there was nothing left... However, once arrived there, all the best seats were empty "reserved" with blankets and whatever... for the entire competition....UNTIL one skater before Yuzuru was scheduled to skate... then, they came in, tripping over people (sometimes elderly people), rushing in to see Yuzuru skate... then the ecstasy, the cheering, the whatever they did... and then left, in the middle of someone else's skate... disturbing everyone else.

The second time I went, same thing... I was sitting down with my avatar's family... (well got to know them there... not like I know them for real)... and there were scarves saving seats... unused... we had to "move them" to make sure we could all sit down... at one point they came in and out... looked a bit at some ice dance... then left in the middle of TESSA and SCOTT !!

Now, I agree with @Magill : not all the fans are like that. Actually, there were very nice and friendly people that came in directly from Japan to support Hanyu and Mai Mihara (if I recall correctly) and they stayed the entire time and cheered for everyone. They were having a great time and being very courteous with everyone around them. But, the ones who were just there for Hanyu, OMG. I am sorry to say, but figure skating is NOT losing anything, as a matter of fact, in smaller venues like the one for ACI, they could have sold these tickets to people who really wanted to attend the entire competition, AND on top of that, would have provided support for everyone skating ... not just one skater.... most skaters had to perform in front of half empty bleachers... or for scarves, blankets, plushies that were installed on the bleachers to save spots for the 4 minute long fans. So the 'bad fans" if one has only experienced them online, MEH.. who cares... but in person, at the competition venue, let me tell you that I will personally not miss them.

 

[Leocadia]

No, classic Hanyu fan behaviour. They bought up all the tickets hoping to see their man, and when he retired they are selling them off in a sulk, because they do not give two hoots about skating, only about him.

Or perhaps they sold their tickets because without Hanyu competing, the cost was too great for them? Going to competitions is very costly, and not a lot of people can afford to go very often or to travel far to do so.
I know I’ve spent lots of money to see some of my favourite skaters, and I wouldn’t have gone to those competitions had they not been there, even though I love going to competitions.

Selling tickets doesn’t necessarily mean those people only care about Hanyu and not skating, it might just mean the cost was too high without him and they prefer saving their money to go to another competition later.

There is really no reason to judge people like this, when we don’t know their reasons for selling their tickets.

 

[Magill]

Because people who buy a ticket to a movie to go see a particular actor do not only enter the movie when the actor is on screen, and then leave rudely when the actor goes off screen. They stay for the whole movie.

If they sell or return their tickets - and that was your original complaint - they do not get in at all. If they do not get in, they do not leave in the middle which is your complaint now. You just need to decide what is your problem with them cause right now it seems you just have a problem whatever they do, sorry for being honest .