2017 GP Cup of China Ladies SP

[Shayuki]

Canada inflation strikes again. No idea why they thought Daleman deserved the highest PCS of the night. Mediocre interpretation, zero expression or feel for music. Transitions were OK but not at the level of the best ones.

Ah right, the lutz is also at least a !. It was a Medvedeva grade flutz.

 

[tars]

My 2 cents on scores, URs, and edges

This is me, looking deep and intensively in your pure and righteous Russian soul, asking: do you really think Elena and Liza should've received higher PCS than Marin???

 

[halulupu]

You should ask the same question to the judges who gave Kostner 74+ with the same combo and even a lower technical content (3lo instead of 3lz like Daleman).

personally i prefer seeing a wonderful 3T-3T than a an ill fighted 3Lz-3T (e.g.Radionova). And we are living in a GOE system, so its fair

 

[Tolstoj]

I just realized that Alina Zagitova is basically Madison Chock's secret daughter :reye:

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/815000824011255810/rciNE05U_400x400.jpg

https://www.google.it/search?client...454...0i30k1j0i19k1j0i8i30i19k1.0.xpT8jTLuL_M

 

[halulupu]

daleman, med and osmond are the biggest flutzer out there and they rarely got call for whatever reason. Maybe the should ad a 6st jump "the big flutz"

 

[Ziotic]

Can someone explain why Gabby is in the lead with a 70+ score when she did a 3T-3T? I don't care how good it was, there's no excuse for that sort of thing. And with that layback, seems a little fishy to me in my opinion.

Go look at the protocols that will tell you why she’s in first. She’s also scored even higher 72+ with a 3T-3T. Simply trying harder elements doesn’t get you a better score when they aren’t successful. GOE is all about quality.

 

[jenaj]

Can someone explain why Gabby is in the lead with a 70+ score when she did a 3T-3T? I don't care how good it was, there's no excuse for that sort of thing. And with that layback, seems a little fishy to me in my opinion.

It's the total points that count, not the difficulty of the individual elements. She got big GOE on just about everything.

 

[Shayuki]

Go look at the protocols that will tell you why she’s in first. She’s also scored even higher 72+ with a 3T-3T. Simply trying harder elements doesn’t get you a better score when they aren’t successful. GOE is all about quality.

Speaking of quality, why was that flutz with weak landing receiving +GOE?

 

[Spirals for Miles]

You should ask the same question to the judges who gave Kostner 74+ with the same combo and even a lower technical content (3lo instead of 3lz like Daleman).

I did

 

[jenaj]

There was a lot of competent skating in this event but still, I was bored. IJS has taken all of the potential for beautiful programs out of the short program--no spirals, backloading, everyone's program looking basically the same (or worse, if the variation is that all of the jumps are backloaded), busy footwork, Biellmans. Under the old system, Zagitova would probably be farther down than fourth with a fall in her short program. And I didn't see that much difference in Tuk (in 6th?) and Daleman (in 1st). They both do the same elements, don't they?

 

[OS]

I just realized that Alina Zagitova is basically Madison Chock's secret daughter :reye:

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/815000824011255810/rciNE05U_400x400.jpg

https://www.google.it/search?client...454...0i30k1j0i19k1j0i8i30i19k1.0.xpT8jTLuL_M

Both gorgeous girls, but uhmm nahhh hahaha....

 

[Shayuki]

There was a lot of competent skating in this event but still, I was bored. IJS has taken all of the potential for beautiful programs out of the short program--no spirals, backloading, everyone's program looking basically the same (or worse, if the variation is that all of the jumps are backloaded), busy footwork, Biellmans. Under the old system, Zagitova would probably be farther down than fourth with a fall in her short program. And I didn't see that much difference in Tuk (in 6th?) and Daleman (in 1st). They both do the same elements, don't they?

Short program is supposed to be the one with relatively little variety.

Be grateful some ladies at least backload all 3 jumps and hence have radically different layouts, otherwise all we'd ever see is 1-2 or 2-1 formations here.

 

[jenaj]

Short program is supposed to be the one with relatively little variety.

Be grateful some ladies at least backload all 3 jumps and hence have radically different layouts, otherwise all we'd ever see is 1-2 or 2-1 formations here.

I could never be grateful for a totally backloaded program. I could hardly make it through watching Zagitova's short, with all of the boring skating around for the first half and then jump-jump-jump. There were so many iconic and beautiful short programs under the old system-nearly every one of Sasha Cohen's, for example. A few skaters have broken through under IJS--Yuna Kim and Mao both had some memorable ones--but the current state is just blah. I hate seeing the 3loop instead of the 3lutz. And skaters who have a good lutz, like Tuk, aren't rewarded much over skaters who don't (or those that do the loop instead).

 

[Ziotic]

Speaking of quality, why was that flutz with weak landing receiving +GOE?

I would say it was more ! than e. I personally would have given a 0 or 1 which is where 6/9 judges also scored it. It had footwork going in, good speed, height and distance. The landing was a bit weak but that’s why it’s not a +2.

 

[Ares]

I completely missed emotions & competitive excitation of SP here ... I just completely forgot that the event takes place today but I had time to watch it. I wish I'd rewatch it with no spoilers using this thread

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?66694-2017-GP-Cup-of-China-Videos-NO-SPOILERS



[url]http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?570-2017-18-Senior-Grand-Prix-of-Figure-Skating
[/URL]
This page with no Cup of China listed I guess confused me additionally so I blanked it out.

 

[Shayuki]

I could never be grateful for a totally backloaded program. I could hardly make it through watching Zagitova's short, with all of the boring skating around for the first half and then jump-jump-jump. There were so many iconic and beautiful short programs under the old system-nearly every one of Sasha Cohen's, for example. A few skaters have broken through under IJS--Yuna Kim and Mao both had some memorable ones--but the current state is just blah. I hate seeing the 3loop instead of the 3lutz. And skaters who have a good lutz, like Tuk, aren't rewarded much over skaters who don't (or those that do the loop instead).

Do you actually think that "skating around" is "boring"? To me that's the best part of any good skating program - Skating around. Here is a question - Do you think it's skating you enjoy, or would you prefer 20s compilations containing only the jumps for every program?

What I don't understand is you complaining about a lack of variety and everyone doing all the same stuff, and then complaining even more when someone like Zagitova decides to do something that's different from what anyone else in this competition is doing.

Another question I have for you is why do you think that in 15 sec intro + jump and 75s skating and spins vs 90s skating and spins, the 75s of skating and spins after the first jump are so much more interesting than the 75s of skating and spins without the first jump?

A third question I have for you is do you actually prefer all 3 jumps being at the start of the program? And if that's the case, what exactly makes it superior to every jump being after the halfway point? I know that having 3 jumps right away is my least favorite layout of them all. But I'm curious to know why you might feel differently.

I would say it was more ! than e. I personally would have given a 0 or 1 which is where 6/9 judges also scored it. It had footwork going in, good speed, height and distance. The landing was a bit weak but that’s why it’s not a +2.

! is -2 or so, hence +1 -> -1 = deserved score, right?

 

[moriel]

How does ! scoring work? Isnt there some mandatory deduction for that?
For me, between ! and "footwork going in, good speed, height and distance", it should be a round 0.

 

[Daniel1998]

Really REALLY bizarre tech calling here, why that Radionova toe was not called is completely beyond me, and there are other calls I'd question too. I'd have Higuchi in the lead, I think her short program is brilliant and that double axel is one of the best in the ladies' field, and her artistic improvement is notable. She and Daleman do deserve to be pretty close to each other, because Daleman, while not as artistically committed, has such impressive speed and jump height. She is FLYING on the ice, both vertically and horizontally.

Radionova to me should be way way down, and Zagitova should be in third, although she too had a sketchy loop. Honda deserves the technical mark she got, but that PCS to me is still an injustice, especially in comparison to Mihara, who, even though she has made improvements, is still quite boring to me as a skater. Underrotations abound in this field that would have been even more hammered last week, but overall a good event to watch. It's going to be a dogfight in the free.

ETA: Never mind about Higuchi, that underrotation is clear as day and that flip really deserves an e. The program's still a joy to watch, though.

 

[[email protected]]

This is me, looking deep and intensively in your pure and righteous Russian soul, asking: do you really think Elena and Liza should've received higher PCS than Marin???

In some theoretical world where I could place my personal pcs based on my understanding of the overall program impact, artistic execution, and fullness (transitions) if I had Medvedeva (who I purely and righteously believe is the best, ahead of anyone) at 38 I would give both Lena and Marin 33-34. Marin has unique smoothness and softness but Elena has cockiness and this short fits her quite well. OK, may be 1 point more to Marin. I would give Liza 30-31 - she was never an artist, her transitions are basic but she has unique hands. On the other hand, I would give Liza much higher GOE on jumps to appreciate how better she is than Lena and especially Marin. And I would give Marin another UR on flip. What would they have in total in my theoretical personal world? Marin: 33+34 = 67 Elena: 35+33 = 68, Liza: 38+31 = 69 Look, it's still the same as I said about "fair" scores above.

But in the real FS world you never get pcs without a history - you have to build "the luggage". The good news is that now a young skater with a good junior track record can build it within a season. You just have to be consistent. If Marin tomorrow skates like she did in Canada it will be the step in the right direction so that by the Olympics or 4CC (if she gets the team) she can grow to 33-34 this season already up from last year's 29. If not, she is young and just starting.

 

[CoyoteChris]

OMG, this reminds me of myself a few weeks ago, staring at instagram on my phone and trying to count the rotations of Michelle Kwan's double salchow (I was convinced it was only a single salchow ) It's hard when you are not a skater and never jumped those jumps!

I think you hit the nail on the head. My friends who skated for fun or competition and who have done a flip have no problems identifying one. All of us have done some activity that we are very familiar with and have no issues identifying the actions of another person doing the same activity.