2015 Europeans Men's Short Program Jan 28

[xibsuarz]

Does anybody know if the score sheets have been/will be released?

 

[matmuh]

Does anybody know if the score sheets have been/will be released?

they are released

 

[Eloyse]

I agree that Javier deserved the placement and the score (I would give him 87+, but 89 is also okay), but I disagree that Javier has more charisma than Voronov. It should be the opposite. In fact Javier's skating looked stiff. He didn't use his upper body very well either. And his expression was too serious/nervous. This should have been reflected in PCS, at least in the IN score. He used to be a very spirited and charismatic skater in the past, but this season his performances have been disappointing (by disappointing I'm not referring to his jump mistakes, I mean his stiff style). Black Betty was so well choreographed that it had the potential to become a masterpiece just like Parisienne Walkways. However Javier didn't present its full potential:disapp:

 

[Lipea]

A step out, but even a fall when you quicly get back on track doesn't interrupt the performance tbh, let alone interpretation. The difference in points today between Javi and Voronov are well justified.
Wagner is a mature skater and she indeed does very well in terms of IN and PE, but she doesn't have that much speed, or cover much ice. Both Elena and Yulia are much better than her in those aspects, and she doesn't have much transitions either. Yet she does get the same or better scores there.

That's all subjective. If it didn't interrupt the performance for you, it did for me. The transitions/speed is also rather subjective thing. It is not a speed competition, and unless a skater is actually slow it should not be a matter for judging. Ashley is fast enough, it is not that she is significantly slower, like Polina Edmunds. If the transitions cause messy impression from a performance like sometimes in case of Pogo or Elena, than I'd prefer Wagner's smooth movements and lines with more clarity. Again it is very subjective. Mishin, for example, considers that to execute a jump on the high speed without extra "jerking" around before the jump is harder and makes the jump more beautiful, so he obviously does not care about transitions much, still Liza gets high PCS. Again everything is subjective with this PCS thing (it was created to have a room for politics), therefore I don't see any point of arguing any more.

 

[Meoima]

Javi has just had a minor injury right before Europe, people should cut him some slack.

 

[Alba]

That's all subjective. If it didn't interrupt the performance for you, it did for me. The transitions/speed is also rather subjective thing. It is not a speed competition, and unless a skater is actually slow it should not be a matter for judging. Ashley is fast enough, it is not that she is significantly slower, like Polina Edmunds. If the transitions cause messy impression from a performance like sometimes in case of Pogo or Elena, than I'd prefer Wagner's smooth movements and lines with more clarity. Again it is very subjective. Mishin, for example, considers that to execute a jump on the high speed without extra "jerking" around before the jump is harder and makes the jump more beautiful, so he obviously does not care about transitions much, still Liza gets high PCS. Again everything is subjective with this PCS thing, therefore I don't see any point of arguing any more.

Speed is not subjective, is part of SS. Covering the ice is not subjective at all. Anyway, you think all you want, but Javi's skating is way better than Voronov's. So just deal with it I guess. There is no point in discussing these things if you are stick to your opinions no matter what.

I would be very happy for Voronov if he wins. I love the guy, but to complain about his scores here? It frankly a joke.

 

[Jaana]

So far, so good. A little too close for comfort between 2nd and 4th.

Between 2nd and 6th are rather close, I would say. Brezina is unfortunately rather inconsistent, and I would not be negatively surprised if Kovtun bounces back to medal as he has done in past.

 

[Meoima]

Javi does skate big, I have seen fancam of him. Not bas big and fast as Yuzuru and PChiddy but he does skate bigger than many guys. He covers more ice than Tatsuki.

 

[shiroKJ]

That's all subjective. If it didn't interrupt the performance for you, it did for me. The transitions/speed is also rather subjective thing. It is not a speed competition, and unless a skater is actually slow it should not be a matter for judging. Ashley is fast enough, it is not that she is significantly slower, like Polina Edmunds. If the transitions cause messy impression from a performance like sometimes in case of Pogo or Elena, than I'd prefer Wagner's smooth movements and lines with more clarity. Again it is very subjective. Mishin, for example, considers that to execute a jump on the high speed without extra "jerking" around before the jump is harder and makes the jump more beautiful, so he obviously does not care about transitions much, still Liza gets high PCS. Again everything is subjective with this PCS thing (it was created to have a room for politics), therefore I don't see any point of arguing any more.

Lol That's only true if judges were watching it on TV/screen like us. Speed and ice coverage which we don't really get to see on the screen, has a lot of impact on how a skater's performace looks to the live audience.

 

[Lipea]

Lol That's only true if judges were watching it on TV/screen like us. Speed and ice coverage which we don't really get to see on the screen, has a lot of impact on how a skater's performace looks to the live audience.

In that case, Radionova should get the highest SS of all.

 

[Crossover]

Javi does skate big, I have seen fancam of him. Not bas big and fast as Yuzuru and PChiddy but he does skate bigger than many guys. He covers more ice than Tatsuki.

Don't you think that your perception is based on just ONE fancam from GPF? I saw your same claim elsewhere being pointed out that the one video is not a good example to show Tatsuki's ice coverage since that was his worst performance this season. In addition, the shooting and camera angles of the one fancam were very limited. Besides, aren't we talking about Voronov and Javi's SS to explain the difference between their scores? I'm not sure why you're dragging Tatsuki into here who didn't compete for Euros in order to praise your favorite guy in this European competition.

 

[HanDomi]

Voronov landed 4-3
Doubled 3A
Did 3lo instead of 3lz/3F
Had lower levels
Had lower PCS


Javier
landed clean 3A
step outs on 4S and combo 3lz/3T
All level 4
4 points higher PCS


all the diffrence in points

While Javier have so-so SS they are still better than Vronov's. And to be honest Voronov wasn't underscored here and either in GPF. Maybe I would cut Javier PCS by about 1 point, but that's all

 

[3T3T]

I only seen the final 8/9 on Eurosport. On the whole it was disappointing, lots of errors and messy skating. I thought Brezina was going to nail it and challenge Fernandez but he fell on his 3Lutz combo. Fernandez is rightly in the clear lead, 2nd through 6th is quite close but I think both Russians can be on the podium. I really enjoyed Peter Liebers. Very disappointing for Besseigher to just make the free skate.

Well done to Israel for having two in the top 10 and to Phillip Harris for making Top 12. I hope the quality is better in the free skate.

 

[Meoima]

Don't you think that your perception is based on just ONE fancam from GPF? I saw your same claim elsewhere being pointed out that the one video is not a good example to show Tatsuki's ice coverage since that was his worst performance this season. In addition, the shooting and camera angles of the one fancam were very limited. Besides, aren't we talking about Voronov and Javi's SS to explain the difference between their scores? I'm not sure why you're dragging Tatsuki into here who didn't compete for Euros in order to praise your favorite guy in this European competition.

I also watched other videos/fancam. And seriously I didn't bash Tatsuki. I think Tatsuki has better SS than Javi obviously, with more transitions. I just point out that, while Javi doesn't have the same SS, he does skate bigger than some other top guys. No need to fire up.
I think people should give more credit to Javi's SS. While I don't think he has stellar SS, but surely he covers a lot of ice, and he isn't snail.

 

[Alba]

Voronov landed 4-3
Doubled 3A
Did 3lo instead of 3lz/3F
Had lower levels
Had lower PCS


Javier
landed clean 3A
step outs on 4S and combo 3lz/3T
All level 4
4 points higher PCS


all the diffrence in points

While Javier have so-so SS they are still better than Vronov's. And to be honest Voronov wasn't underscored here and either in GPF. Maybe I would cut Javier PCS by about 1 point, but that's all

This. :thumbsup:

For me the only generous GoE he had were in the StepSeq. A couple of 9s for the SS. and one for PE.

 

[Crossover]

I only seen the final 8/9 on Eurosport. On the whole it was disappointing, lots of errors and messy skating. I thought Brezina was going to nail it and challenge Fernandez but he fell on his 3Lutz combo. Fernandez is rightly in the clear lead, 2nd through 6th is quite close but I think both Russians can be on the podium. I really enjoyed Peter Liebers. Very disappointing for Besseigher to just make the free skate.

Well done to Israel for having two in the top 10 and to Phillip Harris for making Top 12. I hope the quality is better in the free skate.

Agreed. Coldplay, how couldn't I love his choice of music. Liebers seems to be getting recovered from injury, so I hope to see him in a better form for the free program.
It is a pity that Israel only has one World spot this season, so we won't see both of them in World. I'm speechless over Chafik's performance. He is very lucky enough to be allowed to compete for FP.

 

[[email protected]]

In my subjective view Voronov was a bit underscored, and Javi and Michael were a bit overscored. My "fair" scores would be 87, 83, 79. I like Javi a lot but today he was much less inspiring than usually. With Brezina - Voronov argument we have 3A downgraded to 2A (minus 5 points BV) vs. no combination plus fall (at least minus 10 points BV).

But my hero of the day was polish skater Myzyk (in Russia there is a similar word мужик which means "real man"). Yes he looks like a real man - kind of bulky and masculine. Very different from the rest of the field.

 

[Crossover]

I also watched other videos/fancam. And seriously I didn't bash Tatsuki. I think Tatsuki has better SS than Javi obviously, with more transitions. I just point out that, while Javi doesn't have the same SS, he does skate bigger than some other top guys. No need to fire up.
I think people should give more credit to Javi's SS. While I don't think he has stellar SS, but surely he covers a lot of ice, and he isn't snail.

If you want to give some credit to Javi's SS over Voronov's SS, then you need to stay on the main topic not at the expense of other irrelevant skaters. Nobody said Javi is snail. His SP with lots of transitions that requires high SS will be a burden if Javi doesn't have an enough ability to perform. That is not a case obviously.

 

[Meoima]

If you want to give some credit to Javi's SS over Voronov's SS, then you need to stay on the main topic not at the expense of other irrelevant skaters. Nobody said Javi is snail. His SP with lots of transitions that requires high SS will be a burden if Javi doesn't have an enough ability to perform. That is not a case obviously.

Well I just see a lot of people complain about Javi's SS and I think to some extent it's kind of exaggerate. So I point out that, while Javi doesn't have excellent SS, he still has some quality in SS that is above some top guys (and the top guys in my mind at the moment was just Yuzuru, Chan and Tatsuki). Should I mention Kozuka and Denis Ten as well? But they were not at GPF recently. That's where the gap in PCS (between him and Voronov) comes from IMO. That's my thoughts at the moment. It's not like I want to bring down any skater.
I have stated I think Voronov should have scored higher a bit, around 86 for he has somewhat cleaner jumps today.

 

[HanDomi]

Well I just see a lot of people complain about Javi's SS and I think to some extent it's kind of exaggerate. So I point out that, while Javi doesn't have excellent SS, he still has some quality in SS that is above some top guys (and the top guys in my mind at the moment was just Yuzuru, Chan and Tatsuki). Should I mention Kozuka and Denis Ten as well? But they were not at GPF recently. That's where the gap in PCS (between him and Voronov) comes from IMO. That's my thoughts at the moment. It's not like I want to bring down any skater.
I have stated I think Voronov should have scored higher a bit, around 86 for he has somewhat cleaner jumps today.

86 for Voronov with 2A ? Sorry. I am not buying it