2016-17 State of Russian Ice Dance

[uhh]

Well, basically yes to everything. And it's a fact that Loboda/Drozd stay junior. Not sure about the other two.

But anyway, is it up to Fed to forbid Sinitsina/Katsalapov to choose Rostelecom? I'm not very good at this stuff, but as I understood it's up to a couple and their coach to decide what event to take? Nikita said that he wants to skate home, so I can feel some kind of debate about this matter

They didn't finish high enough at Worlds to get a say. Only top 3 seeded skaters can pick afaik, maybe the 4th to 6th as well, but not the 9th place finishers. But the Feds have 1st say for host picks anyway, even before the seeded skaters. So if they said "We want to leave all our host picks open" at the initial assignment, S/K must be assigned elsewhere, because they are guaranteed 2 in the initial selection, but the empty CoR spots would be held for Russia & you can't have more than 3 teams from one country at any event.

And I can see other parties debating S/K's "right" to have any influence, anyway - yes they were highest at Worlds, but 9th is nothing to shout about really, B/S beat them every time they were face to face and barring disaster would have done the same again at Worlds if they could have been there. The situation is so fluid and none of the teams have done anything to merit special treatment from the Fed.

The other thing for the Federation to think about is which seeded skaters they want to have at their event - no Russians in the equation, so I guess it's whoever they think would be the weakest competition for whoever does get the host spots. I suppose probably C/B and then either C/L or H/D?

 

[Snow63]

They didn't finish high enough at Worlds to get a say. Only top 3 seeded skaters can pick afaik, maybe the 4th to 6th as well, but not the 9th place finishers. But the Feds have 1st say for host picks anyway, even before the seeded skaters. So if they said "We want to leave all our host picks open" at the initial assignment, S/K must be assigned elsewhere, because they are guaranteed 2 in the initial selection, but the empty CoR spots would be held for Russia & you can't have more than 3 teams from one country at any event.

And I can see other parties debating S/K's "right" to have any influence, anyway - yes they were highest at Worlds, but 9th is nothing to shout about really, B/S beat them every time they were face to face and barring disaster would have done the same again at Worlds if they could have been there. The situation is so fluid and none of the teams have done anything to merit special treatment from the Fed.

The other thing for the Federation to think about is which seeded skaters they want to have at their event - no Russians in the equation, so I guess it's whoever they think would be the weakest competition for whoever does get the host spots. I suppose probably C/B and then either C/L or H/D?

This is all make perfect sence, thanks. I bet if they will have a chance they will try to get Hubbel/Donohue, but considering Chock/Bates and Cappellini/Lanotte train with the same coach, they'll probably both will skate here.

 

[gmyers]

Zahorski is perhaps too tall/big for Bukin? She is 171 cm, Guerreiro is 187 cm. according to their ISU bios. They make a very imposing picture on the ice, in the style of Domnina & Shabalin.

Stepanova is 3 cm shorter, and Bukin has not always looked super comfortable lifting her, AFAIR.

The worry with a guy as tall as Guerreiro is that all that height is difficult to keep stable in twizzles (cf Poje at 190 cm, Bates at 187 cm)

That lack of height difference! forget it. The lifts are extreme x games flying acrobatic exercises lots of times so that is out!

I think Russia is simply in a rebuilding phase. Great achievements in ice dance have never been achieved over night, unless you have a genius of a coach like Igor S. How else do we explain that in five seasons C/B have medalled at worlds twice? This is Russia's downfall all their greatest talents have left and now they're left to pick up the pieces. It will take time.

Zhulin has done creditable work with B/S, but they had at least 10-12 yrs of experience together so all he really had to do was polish them to a shine. They also have some promising juniors coming up. Hopefully puberty will be kind.

I don't know if the Russian ice dance collapse is over. Rebuilding phase is looking on the bright side. You saw how the silver and bronze medalists at Russian nationals are barely top 10 contenders at worlds. That said efforts to curb the slide include importing zahorski, sending lots of teams to North America, and at least once importing and all foreign tech panel for their nationals. Too much power for th old guard though. Like with russian ladies. When they started their return it was with all new people being coached by no names.

 

[Ice Dance]

Thanks for the clarification. There are so few "spare" GP spots this year; I think about 40 out of 48 are already taken by skaters who earned 1 or 2 through Worlds finish, SB list and World Standings.

More like 44 out of 48 when you include the host spots that will go to teams not guaranteed a spot already: Virtue & Moir, China's lower teams, and Japan's second team. The U.S., Russia, and Canada need to get over their differences and fight for more dance spots on the Grand Prix. It's not like Italy, Great Britain, Israel, Denmark, Ukraine, Korea, & Slovakia wouldn't back them up. Even Japan & China's top teams and France's advancing juniors would benefit. What is the hold up? We have two Grand Prix Final qualifiers, Junior Worlds gold medalists, medalists on the Grand Prix, medalists at Europeans, final group qualifiers at Europeans and 4CC's, and top-ten teams from the World standings lists in 2015 & 2016 left wondering if they will even be allowed to compete a second event. World junior silver & bronze medalists with practically no hope of doing so should they wish.

And why should any of those teams deserve a second spot? How about the fact that last year's World Champions would have been in exactly this position heading into the first season in which they won?

 

[Hyena]

...The U.S., Russia, and Canada need to get over their differences and fight for more dance spots on the Grand Prix. It's not like Italy, Great Britain, Israel, Denmark, Ukraine, Korea, & Slovakia wouldn't back them up. Even Japan & China's top teams and France's advancing juniors would benefit. What is the hold up? We have two Grand Prix Final qualifiers, Junior Worlds gold medalists, medalists on the Grand Prix, medalists at Europeans, final group qualifiers at Europeans and 4CC's, and top-ten teams from the World standings lists in 2015 & 2016 left wondering if they will even be allowed to compete a second event. World junior silver & bronze medalists with practically no hope of doing so should they wish.

Yeah, I don't understand why there aren't more dance spots. The ISU allows 5 dance teams in a warm-up group, right? So adding another two teams to each event would lengthen the event very slightly, but I'm guessing not in a way the LOCs and stadiums can't handle.

 

[dorispulaski]

This is all make perfect sence, thanks. I bet if they will have a chance they will try to get Hubbel/Donohue, but considering Chock/Bates and Cappellini/Lanotte train with the same coach, they'll probably both will skate here.

Chock & Bates still train with Shpilband, but Cappellini & Lanotte are with Zueva now for the time they spend in the US. Their main coach, though, has always been Paola Mezzadri, AFAIR
http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00008719.htm

 

[Ice Dance]

But the Feds have 1st say for host picks anyway, even before the seeded skaters. So if they said "We want to leave all our host picks open" at the initial assignment, S/K must be assigned elsewhere, because they are guaranteed 2 in the initial selection, but the empty CoR spots would be held for Russia & you can't have more than 3 teams from one country at any event.

Can the host countries really do this in a year where the number of available spots is so slim though? I've always assumed the answer was, "yes;" but this year with the math, I don't see how it is possible. How would all the guaranteed teams fit? If the U.S., Canada, Russia, and France all left two slots TBA, then there would not be enough other spots left to guarantee everyone a place. I realize this is a theoretical question. The top countries generally name their second teams and by June, there could be enough open placements. Popova & Vlasenko appear very likely to drop off the guaranteed list, and there may be other teams as well. I do assume Bobrova & Soloviev will be invited to Cup of Russia and agree that Sinitsina & Katsalapov will go elsewhere. But on a theoretical level, if the invites had to be done today, then Russia, Canada, the U.S., and France would have to name some names. I just don't see how they could all sit around and wait for Bobrova & Soloviev, Stepanova & Bukin, Cannuscio & McManus, Hawayek & Baker, Lauriault & Le Gac, McNamara & Carpenter, and Paradis & Ouellette (and Popova & Vlasenko should the assumptions be incorrect and the Parsons should they choose to move up) to all be named elsewhere because there are not enough open spots on the Grand Prix. At the moment, without Popova & Vlasenko and the Parsons, there are essentially five. If Virtue & Moir decided to take the comeback option and France decided to use its third host spot, there would be essentially three.

 

[uhh]

@Ice Dance - that's exactly the problem, and it makes me wonder if we will see an expanded field this year. Because the GP selection rules have always had host spots, and it has seemed to take priority over anything else - e.g. in 2012-13, NHK ended up with Takahashi & Hanyu and TEB got JOubert & Amodio, even though the rules said those skaters should have been at different events due to the seeding from Worlds. I bet there would be a whole lot of kickback from the federations who bear the cost of hosting these things if the ISU suddenly said "Oh wait this year you can't make your picks, you have to take who we tell you to" - the primary benefit is that they can get more of their own teams out on the GP circuit, but mathematically I don't see how it can work this year.

US will use their picks on (probably) the Shibs, H/D and then either C/M or H/B, or M/C if they are going senior
Canada - Pick for V/M, then probably G/P and P/O, letting W/P go elsewhere
China - Wang/Liu definitely (but maybe holding off in the initial selection so they get their guaranteed spot elsewhere), then maybe Zhao/Zheng and Zhang/Wu. Perhaps one free spot goes back into the pool.
France - P/C, L/L G (but again maybe holding off in the initial selection so they get their guaranteed spot elsewhere), maybe Alessandrini/Souquet, but they didn't get an assignment this year or sent to Worlds/Euros even though they had the scores. So maybe 1 free spot here.
Russia - who knows, but suffice to say they have more than enough teams who need help getting 1 or 2 assignments to use up all their picks.
Japan - M/R, H/D L A. They have no other teams that meet the GP minimum scores - not essential for a host pick, but I don't think there is anyone they will want to push out on the circuit.

Of the host picks, only 4 (5 if Russia take S/K), are already teams that will get 2 spots. 3 - 5 spots, depending on how much China, France & Japan want to use theirs will go to teams not guaranteed any assignment. The only way teams will get the assignments they have already earned is if no host picks are left open and everything is done in the initial announcement. But federations always want to see how everyone is doing over the summer before making their choices, so how does this all work out?

 

[dorispulaski]

Sad to say, I don't see any initiative at the ISU meeting for there to be 10 teams per GP. There should have been such a proposal, given the large number and high level of available dance teams.

 

[uhh]

Sad to say, I don't see any initiative at the ISU meeting for there to be 10 teams per GP. There should have been such a proposal, given the large number and high level of available dance teams.

I can't find the detail on the ISU site, but when the cut from 10 to 8 teams per event was made, was it through the proposed amendments system, or was it just announced in the GP Announcement communication? It's not a ISU constitution issue or a technical amendment, so I'm not clear if it has to go through the whole ISU Congress process.

I almost want V/M to decide to use their Returning Couple status for 2 spots, P/V to stay together, and M/C, Parsons, & L/D to all go senior, because then I think it would actually be impossible to give everyone who has earned an assignment the spots, and ISU would be forced into making changes. It's so ridiculous, dance is probably the discipline where there is the most depth at the moment, but the ISU does nothing to capitalise on it.

 

[dorispulaski]

2011-2012 was the first season with 8 dance teams per event.

 

[Ice Dance]

US will use their picks on (probably) the Shibs, H/D and then either C/M or H/B, or M/C if they are going senior

Does USFSA have to pick H&D for Skate America? Traditionally, they have selected the number three team for SA, but this year they didn't. And it worked out very well for all the U.S. dance teams. Again, the U.S. has three other teams that need a second spot. If I were H&D, I wouldn't want to go up against the Shibs right away at home (where they are reigning national champions and their faces will be on the posters, etc.) I would want to establish myself internationally and then go up against them later--somewhere where their faces are not on the posters. I thought the Shibs should have done this last season against Chock & Bates. This season Maia & Alex did go elsewhere first and it did work out very well. They didn't win SC, but they won a lot of respect there. My understanding, though, is that the top 6 teams are seeded so Hubbell & Donahue would be the last seed and, therefore, USFSA would perhaps have no choice but to send them to Skate America? Then again, Weaver & Poje may feel like coming to SA instead of going to Skate Canada.

My apologies for going completely off topic here. I completely agree with you that we should see an expanded field, and I hope you are right that it may happen based on necessity.

 

[uhh]

Yeah, they don't have to pick H/D. But normally they seem to prefer to have lots of the top american skaters at SKAM rather then trying to spread their skaters out over the whole series (I guess to boost ticket sales?), and as they have to take someone from 4 - 6 at Worlds, I figured they'd go for H/D over C/L or W/P.

Anyway, back to Russian dance...

 

[Ice Dance]

Weaver & Poje can sell tickets. If SA is held close to the border, they would give Canadians a reason to cross it.

As for Russian dance, we are all waiting to find out what is happening. Waiting. And waiting . . .

Impatiently.

 

[uhh]

http://vpsfund.org/441-1/

Anna confirms she and Mozgov have split up
- Was carrying an injury this year, but that is not why they split and she does want to carry on skating
- She was completely surprised by the split, she had thought everything was fine and happy until he told her in April that the coaches had found him a new partner & they would be skating together from the next day
- Sounds like her parents had funded the partnership a lot, including finding medical treatment for Sergei.
- She will look for a new partner, but because of her height it will be hard

This is ridiculous. Have they learned nothing from 2 years ago? Y/M didn't have a wonderful season, but it was on par with what previous WJCs have done in the last 4 years, and they were hampered by injury. Betina is not in any way an upgrade from Anna, her posture is horrendous and any presentation is based on an expressive face rather than an ability to use her body. Most of all I'm shocked that Kustarova would let Anna be blindsided like this when she's seen (and given tons of interviews about) how difficult it was for Ruslan & Elena.

Maybe Mozgov has real reasons for wanting another partner, but why is it so impossible for these skaters to treat their partners with the slightest shred of decency?

I think Anna's best option is to try out with Khaliavin? And hope that he sees her & staying in Russia as a better option than switching countries.

 

[Tanka]

http://rsport.ru/figure_skating/20160502/918525563.html
So here is a new couple Popova/Mozgov who will train in Kustarova's group.

I wonder what new partners Anna Yanovskaya and Yuri Vlasenko will have...

 

[Snow63]

http://vpsfund.org/441-1/

Anna confirms she and Mozgov have split up
- Was carrying an injury this year, but that is not why they split and she does want to carry on skating
- She was completely surprised by the split, she had thought everything was fine and happy until he told her in April that the coaches had found him a new partner & they would be skating together from the next day
- Sounds like her parents had funded the partnership a lot, including finding medical treatment for Sergei.
- She will look for a new partner, but because of her height it will be hard

This is ridiculous. Have they learned nothing from 2 years ago? Y/M didn't have a wonderful season, but it was on par with what previous WJCs have done in the last 4 years, and they were hampered by injury. Betina is not in any way an upgrade from Anna, her posture is horrendous and any presentation is based on an expressive face rather than an ability to use her body. Most of all I'm shocked that Kustarova would let Anna be blindsided like this when she's seen (and given tons of interviews about) how difficult it was for Ruslan & Elena.

Maybe Mozgov has real reasons for wanting another partner, but why is it so impossible for these skaters to treat their partners with the slightest shred of decency?

What chances Popova/Mozgov have to get a GP event?

I think Anna's best option is to try out with Khaliavin? And hope that he sees her & staying in Russia as a better option than switching countries.

As far as I know, Anna's words about 'surprising split' are untrue. So I don't know who to believe in this situation. I hope Sergei will give his opinion too. Also, it's not the last split this spring/summer. Stay tuned.

 

[MsLiinaLii]

As far as I know, Anna's words about 'surprising split' are untrue. Also, it's not the last split this spring/summer. Stay tuned.

Give us a hint

 

[TheGrandSophy]

The first person to speak to the media doesn't automatically speak truth. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't and sometimes it is 50:50.

Never say Russian ice dance is boring. Soap opera yet again... Lol

 

[uhh]

As far as I know, Anna's words about 'surprising split' are untrue. So I don't know who to believe in this situation. I hope Sergei will give his opinion too. Also, it's not the last split this spring/summer. Stay tuned.

How much notice did she get then? I took her interview to say that she has known for a while, but when Sergei first told her that he wanted a change & had decided to work with Betina, it came out of the blue. Do you know different? Back when people were first saying she was injured and would have to quit, maybe a couple of months ago, I couldn't understand it because she was still posting pictures at the rink and seeming very happy. I hope she can find someone, whatever the truth about her & Mozgov is. I guess the other question is where she trains now while she looks for a new partner, because if her version of events is even a little true, I doubt she'd want to stay at Medvedkovo.

And the other split is someone other than Monko/Khaliavin?