2020 Four Continents: Free Dance

[gsk8]

USA's Madison Chock and Evan Bates rose from second to defend their title in this event at Seoul, South Korea, at the Wakiki Mokdong Ice Rink on Friday afternoon. Piper Gilles and Paul Poirier of Canada also moved up one spot to capture the silver, while USA's Madison Hubbell and Zachary Donohue pocketed the bronze.

Chock and Bates gave a mesmerizing free dance (127.42 ) with their creative "Egyptian Snake Dance" routine, racking up positive grades of execution (GOE) in each element along the way. The lifts, twizzles, spin, and one-foot steps were all graded a level 4, however, the team took a one-point deduction for a fluke fall by Chock. Nevertheless, the defending champions defended their title with a new personal best total score of 213.18.

"I scared myself," said Chock of the slip. "Maybe I stepped on something. It was out of the blue and I was trying to catch myself!"

More...

Interesting event with a bit of excitement! Your thoughts?

 

[heartyxo]

I think the results were right. Ultimately a level 2 on the dance pattern should matter more than a fall *not on an element*. They couldn’t deduct C/B’s TES and their levels were super high (one level 3!!), all that could be done was lower the PCS (which they did slightly) and deduct 1 point (which they did).
The same thing happened with V/M at 2017 worlds. They won with a fall *not on an element* because of the SD.
G/P did great and if they didn’t do a generic lyrical program instead of one of their trademark creative FDs the results could have been different.
H/D were not on.

 

[Yuzuruu]

Copy&Paste my post from the Ice Dance comp thread:

How nice of Piper & Paul to save my predictions
But seriously, this is the correct podium order. Piper and Paul are really mesmerizing and pull you in, Maddie and Evan have the best free dance of the season imo and I am glad they are finally getting the recognition they deserve.
Sorry Hubbell and Donohue but... they are so uninspired to me and their lifts are so repetetive. Sure they have long, sweeping edges and speed going for them but the rest of the package is not really good. And yet again - insincere - and that puts me off completely.

 

[Ryan O]

Carol Lane posted a photo of Piper & Paul's new Free Dance costumes for 4 Continents:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EQI05g2U0AAV8VL?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

 

[slider11]

I'm a bit conflicted on the results. I thought Piper and Paul had a magnificent performance. They still seem to be marked down a bit by some judges who just don't seem to grasp the artistic wonder that they capture. Madison and Evan were great. The "snake dance" is fantastic but I think it was just a bit less sharp and mesmerizing than previous performances. I don't get why their transitions were marked so high with the fall. I get that it was not an element but with the fall and the slight reduction in speed and sharpness, I would expect their artistic scores to take a bit of a ding. I think it comes down to the judges really liking the sexy snake over the dreamy magic. But Piper and Paul are inching, inching....

 

[Colonel Green]

G/P did great and if they didn’t do a generic lyrical program instead of one of their trademark creative FDs the results could have been different.

Irrespective of one's views of this particular program (which is, of course, an inherently subjective question), I don't think that's true. If you look at Piper & Paul's career, the judges generally like them more the more conventional their programs are. They haven't really been rewarded for their more experimental modes (other than in terms of fan love).

 

[rain]

Piper and Paul should have won the free dance.

 

[Yeslekyelnats]

I get that it was not an element but with the fall and the slight reduction in speed and sharpness, I would expect their artistic scores to take a bit of a ding.

It did get a ding. It would have been higher without.

 

[slider11]

It did get a ding. It would have been higher without.

I don't think an average 9.25 transition score is much of a ding.

 

[heartyxo]

Irrespective of one's views of this particular program (which is, of course, an inherently subjective question), I don't think that's true. If you look at Piper & Paul's career, the judges generally like them more the more conventional their programs are. They haven't really been rewarded for their more experimental modes (other than in terms of fan love).

What I mean is that in a way Chock/Bates went with their tactic this season. They did an artistic unique program that is completely individual to them and suits them perfectly, like G/P have multiple times. As long as they get their levels, which they did today even with the fall since they got all levels 4s except the circular step, they are gonna get huge scores. I don't know if G/P would have had as much success as C/B have if they'd gone down that route like they usually have in the past, but I think with them being the new top Canadians it could have worked better for them than it has in the past and possibly better than their current FD has.
I do like Both Sides Now, it's lovely. But even though it has a few unique moves it is pretty much like another lyrical program that other teams could pull off to me, unlike most of their others and what C/B did this year.

 

[Yeslekyelnats]

I don't think an average 9.25 transition score is much of a ding.

Apply and become a judge then!

 

[Ryan O]

Irrespective of one's views of this particular program (which is, of course, an inherently subjective question), I don't think that's true. If you look at Piper & Paul's career, the judges generally like them more the more conventional their programs are. They haven't really been rewarded for their more experimental modes (other than in terms of fan love).

Agreed.

Although some of Piper & Paul's inventive programs like 'Hitchcock' have gotten positive responses from fans & skating commentators, the judges tend to give them their highest marks when they skate to programs like 'Vincent' and 'Both Sides Now'. It's only been the last 2 seasons which seem to have gotten the full rewards from the judges.

 

[chuckm]

P/G have gone full circle: from quirk to schmaltz.

 

[dancelion21]

Ultimately, C/B deserved to win the event. They got a level 4 Finnstep, and they got straight level 4s in their free dance except for the circular step sequence. Without the fall, it would have been a season's best. Overall, they definitely established themselves as favorites for the world podium alongside S/K and P/C.
G/P performed well, and they could've won if they got their levels on the Finnstep in the rhythm dance. They are dark horses for the podium, but they have been inconsistent with the levels in comparison to the top teams, and the politics have been Zhulin vs. Gadbois this whole season, is there room for them? Then again, they have the advantage of being a home worlds, so maybe it'll be enough to get thrid? It doesn't bode well that they couldn't beat C/B in the free dance when C/B had a fall, but they certainly aren't out of contention for a medal at worlds.
H/D, ugh, what is there to say that hasn't been said already? They are amazing skaters, their speed, quality of edge, and power, is undeniable, and superior to both C/B and G/P. However, they've had bad material for two seasons in a row now. Their momentum has completely stopped, and it is very unlikely that they can get on the world podium this year. Next year, please, get some good programs, and they can be on top of the world again.

 

[rain]

The same thing happened with V/M at 2017 worlds. They won with a fall *not on an element* because of the SD.

Your comparison falls apart though. V/M did not win the free dance that year — P/C rightfully did. Just as P/P should have won the free dance here, not matter what the overall result turned out to be.

 

[dancelion21]

Your comparison falls apart though. V/M did not win the free dance that year — P/C rightfully did. Just as P/P should have won the free dance here, not matter what the overall result turned out to be.

It's not the same situation. V/M and P/C had the same levels and base value in the free dance at Worlds 2017, so the fall on a non-element was the difference. Here, C/B had a higher base value and tech score since they skated cleaner than P/C. I agree that the PCS should've been lower in C/B's score, but I maintain that they should have won the free dance because they executed their technical elements cleaner than G/P.

Also, I looked at the score sheet for V/M at 2017 Worlds, and it's interesting that his fall did not receive a one point fall deduction. It wouldn't have made a difference in the final results, but just an interesting tidbit.

 

[Koatterce]

It's not the same situation. V/M and P/C had the same levels and base value in the free dance at Worlds 2017, so the fall on a non-element was the difference. Here, C/B had a higher base value and tech score since they skated cleaner than P/C. I agree that the PCS should've been lower in C/B's score, but I maintain that they should have won the free dance because they executed their technical elements cleaner than G/P.

Also, I looked at the score sheet for V/M at 2017 Worlds, and it's interesting that his fall did not receive a one point fall deduction. It wouldn't have made a difference in the final results, but just an interesting tidbit.

if i recall correctly, he sort of tripped/stumbled, but didn't fall

 

[rain]

It's not the same situation. V/M and P/C had the same levels and base value in the free dance at Worlds 2017, so the fall on a non-element was the difference. Here, C/B had a higher base value and tech score since they skated cleaner than P/C. I agree that the PCS should've been lower in C/B's score, but I maintain that they should have won the free dance because they executed their technical elements cleaner than G/P.

Also, I looked at the score sheet for V/M at 2017 Worlds, and it's interesting that his fall did not receive a one point fall deduction. It wouldn't have made a difference in the final results, but just an interesting tidbit.

As Koatterce has already pointed out, Scott didn't fall, he stumbled (one hand touched the ice, the other did not, and his knee never touched the ice either. Over the years this has been exaggerated into a full-on fall). It was still an error (and cost them the FD), but not a fall, unlike Madison Chock here. I won't get in to how lucky P/C were to even be in second after the SD that season, as that's a whole other can of off-topic worms. I will say that I totally and completely disagree that Chock/Bates executed the elements better than G/P and the higher PCS, with the fall, was a farce. It's this kind of thing that makes people think it's all pre-decided, and I have to say, I kind of feel like that about this. I don't think it was any grand conspiracy, I just think the judges had already decided who was going to win here, and made it so, regardless of a sub-par performance by C/B.

 

[dancelion21]

Scott put his hands down on the ice and went down on his knee, it certainly looks like a fall even if he didn't end up on his butt. I think this just goes to show how ice dance scoring is incredibly subjective. It makes me question how much of it really is a sport, and it's definitely the most political of all the disciplines by a long shot. As much as I enjoy watching ice dance, there's no denying that it's the most subjective of all the disciplines.

 

[rain]

Scott put his hands down on the ice and went down on his knee, it certainly looks like a fall even if he didn't end up on his butt. I think this just goes to show how ice dance scoring is incredibly subjective. It makes me question how much of it really is a sport, and it's definitely the most political of all the disciplines by a long shot. As much as I enjoy watching ice dance, there's no denying that it's the most subjective of all the disciplines.

On the subjectivity we certainly can agree. In no other discipline does material and music choice matter as much as it does in ice dance. It still matters in the other disciplines, of course, but in ice dance it can make or break you. Just look at the conversations surrounding Hubbell and Donohue the last two seasons.