2021-22 US Ice Dance

[GS Forum Staff]

Now that Katarina DelCamp is skating for the UK, posts about her new partnership belong in the British skating thread.

British and Irish Figure skating 2021-2022

Torvill & Dean launch British Ice Skating Academy of Dance BIS announced today the British Ice Skating Academy of Dance - to be based in Sheffield, Torvill and Dean will be the head coaches and mentors. Glad to see this be launced - I've felt for a long time that this is how their legacy should...

www.goldenskate.com

 

[yelyoh]

Maybe someone already posted these videos of Avonley Nguyen with her new partner, Grigory Smirnov (at U.S. championship series in Alpahretta, GA):

- YouTube

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Thanks for sharing. They mesh well together. And look as though they love skating with each other. Really nice lifts. A lot of potential with this team. And I have been a fan of hers since her junior days - like yesterday pre-covid : )

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I would not use the term fascinating. Maddening would be my choice.

Could you elaborate on what you mean? Thanks.

U.S. Nationals is going to be fascinating, because IMO, Hawayek/Baker and Green/Parsons have much better free dances this season than the perennial top 2.

Are video links available of their programs? Thanks in advance.

 

[ManyCairns]

Are video links available of their programs? Thanks in advance.

RD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bAC_YOOOmI



FD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvxqYXknw9o

 

[lurkerghost1]

Do people not like Chock/Bates free dance? IMO it’s one of the strongest free skates in the world this year which is true for them every season. I don’t think it’s as good as the snake program but they were unlikely to have such a good one immediately after.

On the other hand Hubbell/Donohue free skate is bad which is also not new for them. They are maddening for me because if they could get over their egos and actually have good programs I bet they could rival P/C since ice dance judges care way more about program quality than the other disciplines and will reward teams with high PCS (Fear/Gibson, Gilles, Poirier, Chock/Bates, etc.)

 

[ManyCairns]

Do people not like Chock/Bates free dance? IMO it’s one of the strongest free skates in the world this year which is true for them every season. I don’t think it’s as good as the snake program but they were unlikely to have such a good one immediately after.

On the other hand Hubbell/Donohue free skate is bad which is also not new for them. They are maddening for me because if they could get over their egos and actually have good programs I bet they could rival P/C since ice dance judges care way more about program quality than the other disciplines and will reward teams with high PCS (Fear/Gibson, Gilles, Poirier, Chock/Bates, etc.)

I love C/B's free dance! It has grown on me, and it seems to be scoring well.

H/D's seems like more of the same. They have such speed and power but I've never enjoyed their programs much.

 

[moonvine]

Could you elaborate on what you mean? Thanks.

Ice dance judging maddens me because barring something crazy happening like more than one fall,
H/D is the US #1 team, C/B #2 and H/B #3 and they will finish that way regardless of how they actually skate.

 

[moonvine]

Do people not like Chock/Bates free dance? IMO it’s one of the strongest free skates in the world this year which is true for them every season. I don’t think it’s as good as the snake program but they were unlikely to have such a good one immediately after.

On the other hand Hubbell/Donohue free skate is bad which is also not new for them. They are maddening for me because if they could get over their egos and actually have good programs I bet they could rival P/C since ice dance judges care way more about program quality than the other disciplines and will reward teams with high PCS (Fear/Gibson, Gilles, Poirier, Chock/Bates, etc.)

I hated the snake dance. It was all standing and posing.

Their skating is very meh to me though I love them as people.

 

[dorispulaski]

Fans often spend lots of time discussing FD's, but in any competition, if you don't place well in the RD, you are out of the running for a medal at World's or Olympics.

In an Olympic year, it is especially important for the US to have its best RD in the first round of the Team Competition, since the US pairs and ladies are not strong.

So here are the likely 5 couples who will be in the last group at Nationals.

C&B' s Billie Eilish RD is really good. I particularly like that the two pieces of music flow together in such a way as to tell a coherent story, and the interactions between the two are excellent. They are on the beat. Lift is as always is excellent, but for me the standout element is their Midnight Blues! Weakest element is the twizzles.
2021 NHK, scoring 86.02

- YouTube

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H&D's highest scoring performance of their Janet Jackson RD this season was at Gran Premio d'Italia, 84.79. There is no coherent story at all in this dance, and they are not always on the beat, but the speed and power in their twizzles are excellent, as is their stationary lift.

- YouTube

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Unfortunately for H&D, Green and Parsons have a better Janet Jackson program. Green and Parsons RD also had its best outing at Gran Premio D'Italia 2021, for 75.60 points. Their program to "The Knowledge" and "Rhythm Nation" by Janet Jackson and "My Lovin' (You're Never Gonna Get It)" by En Vogue shows that, unlike H&D, they get Janet Jackson, and they really understood the assignment of street dance. However, the lift was very awkward here In Italy. Later, Caroline slipped on the exit of that lift at Warsaw Cup:

- YouTube

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www.youtube.com

Hawayek and Baker are coming back from injury, and have only performed this Donna Summer RD once in competition, at Rostelecom Cup, for 73.72 points. The thing I liked best about it was the disco PSt step bit. However, the first part of the dance was slow, careful, and boring, with the endless repetition of Love To Love You Baby. It has a long way to improve to get up to either C&B or H&D, and they have significant work to do to outscore Green & Parsons.

- YouTube

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Carreira & Ponomarenko's Batdance RD has not been wowing the judges. It's best score was 72.36 at Finlandia. I preferred the IdF version, although I find the music was edited out for copyright.

- YouTube

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youtu.be

Their first outing was at Lombardia where you can hear the music.
https://youtu.be/JO05-J_3oOA
The team has two big problems this year- changing coaches to Scott Moir, and changing a lot of their technique, and the fact that Christina is not a US citizen, and cannot represent the US in the Olympics.

 

[labgoat]

Do people not like Chock/Bates free dance? IMO it’s one of the strongest free skates in the world this year which is true for them every season. I don’t think it’s as good as the snake program but they were unlikely to have such a good one immediately after.

I am a fan of the alien astronaut program. Is it perfect yet? No - I'd like to see the character step be more visual. I like it because it is different and explores a different way of moving as much as the rules and elements allow. It show off this team well and I see improvement in their body core strength which translates into stronger elements. It is also one of the most difficult programs as scored by the judges so far.

 

[labgoat]

Fans often spend lots of time discussing FD's, but in any competition, if you don't place well in the RD, you are out of the running for a medal at World's or Olympics.

In an Olympic year, it is especially important for the US to have its best RD in the first round of the Team Competition, since the US pairs and ladies are not strong.

So here are the likely 5 couples who will be in the last group at Nationals.

C&B' s Billie Eilish RD is really good. I particularly like that the two pieces of music flow together in such a way as to tell a coherent story, and the interactions between the two are excellent. They are on the beat. Lift is as always is excellent, but for me the standout element is their Midnight Blues! Weakest element is the twizzles.
2021 NHK, scoring 86.02

- YouTube

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youtu.be

H&D's highest scoring performance of their Janet Jackson RD this season was at Gran Premio d'Italia, 84.79. There is no coherent story at all in this dance, and they are not always on the beat, but the speed and power in their twizzles are excellent, as is their stationary lift.

- YouTube

Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.

youtu.be

Unfortunately for H&D, Green and Parsons have a better Janet Jackson program. Green and Parsons RD also had its best outing at Gran Premio D'Italia 2021, for 75.60 points. Their program to "The Knowledge" and "Rhythm Nation" by Janet Jackson and "My Lovin' (You're Never Gonna Get It)" by En Vogue shows that unlike H&D they get Janet Jackson, and really understood the assignment of street dance. However, the lift is very awkward here In Italy. Caroline slipped on the exit of that lift at Warsaw Cup:

- YouTube

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www.youtube.com

Hawayek and Baker are coming back from injury, and have only performed this Donna Summer RD once in competition, at Rostelecom Cup, for 73.72 points. The thing I liked best about it was was disco PSt step bit. However, the first part of the dance was slow and careful, and boring with the endless repetition of Love To Love You Baby. It has a long way to improve to get up to either C&B or H&D, and they have significant work to do to outscore Green & Parsons.

- YouTube

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www.youtube.com

Carreira & Ponomarenko's Batdance RD has not been wowing the judges. It's best score was 72.36 at Finlandia. I preferred the IdF version, although I find the music was edited out for copyright.

- YouTube

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youtu.be

Their first outing was at Lombardia where you can hear the music.
https://youtu.be/JO05-J_3oOA, ppThe team has two big problems this hear- changing coaches to Scott Moir, and changing a lot of their technique, and the fact that Christina is not a US citizen, and cannot represent the US in the Olympics.

I'd say you succinctly put in words exactly what I was thinking.

 

[dorispulaski]

Since we have looked at US teams versus each other, let's see how they competed this season.

Chock and Bates started late, due to USFSA making them change their RD after Champs Camp, and yet C&B have been heartbreakingly close to winning the RD in all 3 of their outings, and they should absolutely have won the NHK RD. They had the higher base value over both S&K and P&C. If they went into these competitions as the U.S.#1 instead of #2, would they have won one or more of them? They have been technically superior, plus having good choreography.

Finlandia
1. P&C 85.58 (who were a bit nervous, having been away from international competition for a while) and made a couple of errors that dropped levels) C&B had higher base level by 1.51.
2. C&B 83.72 (-1.86)

Skate America had very tough calling. H&D won the base value by 0.51, because the panel only gave C&B Level 1 for the midline, when they had no obvious errors visible to a casual viewer like me.
1. H&D 83.58
2. C&B 82.55 (-1.03)

NHK
1. S&K 86.33 (screwed up a rotational lift and lost base value on twizzles and partial step)
2. C&B 86.02 (-0.31 overall) higher base value by 1.88

Hubbell & Donohue started their season at the U.S. International Figure Skating Classic. The only non US entrants of note were Davis & Smolkin, who finished second. Part of D&S's meteoric rise has been that their dance was more engaging than H&D' s.

Classic
H&B 84.02
D&S 75.21

Skate America
1. H&D 83.58
2. C&B 82.55 (-1.03)

Gran Premio d'Italia H&D lose base value by -0.01
1. P&C 87.54
2. H&D 84.79 (-2.75)

Hawayek and Baker' s single outing at Rostelecom left them in fifth place, 13.09 points behind S&K in first place. They were also behind Guignard and Fabbri, F-B & S, and Hurtado & Khaliavin
1.S&K 86.81
5. H&B 73.72 (-13.09)

Green & Parsons

Skate Canada
1. Gilles & Poirier 85.65 (their personal best. They scored 81.35 at IdF and 83.35 at ACI)
2. Hubbard & Fabbri 78.82 (-6.83)
3. Smart & Diaz 76.97 (-8.68:
4. Green & Parsons 72.40 (-13.25)
...
8. Carreira & Ponomarenko 68.96, behind Davis & Smolkin

Gran Premio d'Italia
1. P&C 87.54
2. H&D 84.79 (-2.75)
3. S&B 81.47 (-6.07)
4. G&P 75.60 (-10.94)

So if you were USFSA, would you send anyone in the top two places to the Olympics, other than C&B and H&D?

The question is whether you leave Hawayek & Baker in third. Unless H&B improve significantly before Nationals, they will not finish third there. The question then will be do they go to Olympics on Body of Work.

The World's team is also a consideration. C&B are staying in, but H&D say they are retiring after this season. They might or might not choose to go to Worlds.

I think G&P, H&B, and C&P need to go to 4CCs to fight it out for the third spot on the US team.

 

[moonvine]

Fans often spend lots of time discussing FD's, but in any competition, if you don't place well in the RD, you are out of the running for a medal at World's or Olympics.

In an Olympic year, it is especially important for the US to have its best RD in the first round of the Team Competition, since the US pairs and ladies are not strong.

So here are the likely 5 couples who will be in the last group at Nationals.

C&B' s Billie Eilish RD is really good. I particularly like that the two pieces of music flow together in such a way as to tell a coherent story, and the interactions between the two are excellent. They are on the beat. Lift is as always is excellent, but for me the standout element is their Midnight Blues! Weakest element is the twizzles.
2021 NHK, scoring 86.02

- YouTube

Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.

youtu.be

H&D's highest scoring performance of their Janet Jackson RD this season was at Gran Premio d'Italia, 84.79. There is no coherent story at all in this dance, and they are not always on the beat, but the speed and power in their twizzles are excellent, as is their stationary lift.

- YouTube

Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.

youtu.be

Unfortunately for H&D, Green and Parsons have a better Janet Jackson program. Green and Parsons RD also had its best outing at Gran Premio D'Italia 2021, for 75.60 points. Their program to "The Knowledge" and "Rhythm Nation" by Janet Jackson and "My Lovin' (You're Never Gonna Get It)" by En Vogue shows that, unlike H&D, they get Janet Jackson, and they really understood the assignment of street dance. However, the lift was very awkward here In Italy. Later, Caroline slipped on the exit of that lift at Warsaw Cup:

- YouTube

Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.

www.youtube.com

Hawayek and Baker are coming back from injury, and have only performed this Donna Summer RD once in competition, at Rostelecom Cup, for 73.72 points. The thing I liked best about it was the disco PSt step bit. However, the first part of the dance was slow, careful, and boring, with the endless repetition of Love To Love You Baby. It has a long way to improve to get up to either C&B or H&D, and they have significant work to do to outscore Green & Parsons.

- YouTube

Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.

www.youtube.com

Carreira & Ponomarenko's Batdance RD has not been wowing the judges. It's best score was 72.36 at Finlandia. I preferred the IdF version, although I find the music was edited out for copyright.

- YouTube

Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.

youtu.be

Their first outing was at Lombardia where you can hear the music.
https://youtu.be/JO05-J_3oOA
The team has two big problems this year- changing coaches to Scott Moir, and changing a lot of their technique, and the fact that Christina is not a US citizen, and cannot represent the US in the Olympics.

I’m hoping H/B do better with their RD at Golden Spin.

 

[moonvine]

Since we have looked at US teams versus each other, let's see how they competed this season.

Chock and Bates started late, due to USFSA making them change their RD after Champs Camp, and yet C&B have been heartbreakingly close to winning the RD in all 3 of their outings, and they should absolutely have won the NHK RD. They had the higher base value over both S&K and P&C. If they went into these competitions as the U.S.#1 instead of #2, would they have won one or more of them? They have been technically superior, plus having good choreography.

Finlandia
1. P&C 85.58 (who were a bit nervous, having been away from international competition for a while) and made a couple of errors that dropped levels) C&B had higher base level by 1.51.
2. C&B 83.72 (-1.86)

Skate America had very tough calling. H&D won the base value by 0.51, because the panel only gave C&B Level 1 for the midline, when they had no obvious errors visible to a casual viewer like me.
1. H&D 83.58
2. C&B 82.55 (-1.03)

NHK
1. S&K 86.33 (screwed up a rotational lift and lost base value on twizzles and partial step)
2. C&B 86.02 (-0.31 overall) higher base value by 1.88

Hubbell & Donohue started their season at the U.S. International Figure Skating Classic. The only non US entrants of note were Davis & Smolkin, who finished second. Part D&S's meteoric rise had been that their dance was more engaging thsn H&D' s.

Classic
H&B 84.02
D&S 75.21

Skate America
1. H&D 83.58
2. C&B 82.55 (-1.03)

Gran Premio d'Italia H&D lose base value by -0.01
1. P&C 87.54
2. H&D 84.79 (-2.75)

Hawayek and Baker' s single outing at Rostelecom left them in fifth place, 13.09 points behind S&K in first place. They were also behind Guignard and Fabbri, F-B & S, and Hurtado & Khaliavin
1.S&K 86.81
5. H&B 73.72 (-13.09)

Green & Parsons

Skate Canada
1. Gilles & Poirier 85.65 (their personal best)
2. Hubbard & Fabbri 78.82 (-6.83)
3. Smart & Diaz 76.97 (-8.68:
4. Green & Parsons 72.40 (-13.25)
...
8. Carreira & Ponomarenko 68.96, behind Davis & Smolkin

Gran Premio d'Italia
1. P&C 87.54
2. H&D 84.79 (-2.75)
3. S&B 81.47 (-6.07)
4. G&P 75.60 (-10.94)

So if you were USFSA, would you send anyone in the top two places to the Olympics, other than C&B and H&D?

The question is whether you leave Hawayek & Baker in third. Unless H&B improve significantly before Nationals, they will not finish third there. The question then will be do they go to Olympics on Body of Work.

The World's team is also a consideration. C&B are staying in, but H&B say they are retiring after this season. They might or might not choose to go to Worlds.

I think G&P, H&B, and C&P need to go to 4CCs to fight it out for the third spot on the US team.

Hawayek and Baker are retiring???

 

[dorispulaski]

I hope H&B do well at Golden Spin, too.

It is Hubbell & Donohue who said they are retiring. My mistake got caught before I fixed the typo.

 

[litenkyckling]

Carreira & Ponomarenko's Batdance RD has not been wowing the judges. It's best score was 72.36 at Finlandia. I preferred the IdF version, although I find the music was edited out for copyright.

- YouTube

Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.

youtu.be

Their first outing was at Lombardia where you can hear the music.
https://youtu.be/JO05-J_3oOA
The team has two big problems this year- changing coaches to Scott Moir, and changing a lot of their technique, and the fact that Christina is not a US citizen, and cannot represent the US in the Olympics.

It seems to me that they've calculated this risk, this is the best season for them to have a floppy one as USFS' main focus this season is OG and so they won't even be considering them. I think they really needed to make this change as they truly were stagnating with Igor, while their results were good with him - this being the first season that they haven't medalled at a senior international event - their skills weren't getting better, they weren't getting new lifts, they weren't getting great material and they never seemed like they were one of his top priorities. They will be 5th at best at Nationals no question, but hopefully will get a 4CC spot.

 

[litenkyckling]

I’m hoping H/B do better with their RD at Golden Spin.

I think they just need to go for it on the performance side at Golden Spin (totally understand why they focused on the tech more at Rostelecom) - they don't have much competition there now that F/G and D/S are out - and we all know that Golden Spin is the perfect place to shoot for a season's best and you might sneak the levels more than you could at the GP.

 

[dancelion21]

I think G&P, H&B, and C&P need to go to 4CCs to fight it out for the third spot on the US team.

They will be 5th at best at Nationals no question, but hopefully will get a 4CC spot.

USFS has already decided that they won't be sending any Olympians to 4CC, so there will not be a chance for G/P and H/B to duke it out on the international stage. CPom are pretty much guaranteed a 4CC spot, since they are not going to be Olympians, and they are solidly the fifth best American ice dance team. The 4CC spots will definitely be going to one of G/P and H/B, whoever doesn't get chosen for the Olympics, CPom, and the last spot which is totally up for grabs. The last 4CC spot could go to any team of Cesanek/Yehorov (who got the Skate America host spot), Wolfkostin/Chen (the top American junior team who are competing senior nationals for precisely this reason), McNamara/Spiridonov, Pate/Bye, or Bratti/Somerville. I would say that C/Y are probably the favorites for the spot since they were the highest placing team at US Nationals last year and they competed on the Grand Prix series by impressing USFS enough to get the host spot, but W/C and B/S have also gotten huge international scores at Challenger events, so it's quite difficult to say.

 

[dorispulaski]

@litenkyckling, I agree that strategically C&P picked the right time to move. It is worth remembering Anthony's only 20, and IdF is the first time he hasn't reminded me of a fluffy puppy that I want to pet. Igor never solved how to present them, and seemed to be waiting for Anthony to grow up to pick a style. It is why Moir & company's choice of Batman was good for the team, even if not for their scores. Anthony needed to find his inner super-hero.

 

[litenkyckling]

I agree that strategically C&P picked the right time to move. It is worth remembering Anthony's only 20, and IdF is the first time he hasn't reminded me of a fluffy puppy that I want to pet. Igor never solved how to present them, and seemed to be waiting for Anthony to grow up to pick a style. It is why Moir & company's choice of Batman was good for the team, even if not for their scores. Anthony needed to find his inner super-hero.

I totally agree on this point - it might not be the perfect vehicle for them, but I think the strategy of giving him a programme he's really into the theme of is such a good idea (and worked really well for Zak Lagha).

On his age (which I always forget) he's actually younger than Donohue, Bates, Parsons, Yehorov, Somerville, Bye, Smirnov and Spiridonov.