4CC from the Perspective of an Outsider

[Li'Kitsu]

You don't need a high ranking education to be able to deduce something like that when it's SPELLED OUT on paper for you. But if you are watching it as it happens as a person who's completely new to figure skating, you probably wouldn't even notice or pay attention to the amount of one foot vs two foot skating. Also, if you just read the boards without watching or knowing anything about figure skating, you'd probably get the impression that Chen is some kind of truck driver with no grace or SS, when in contrary he's a pretty exceptional skater for his age in his own right even without the quads. In fact, that's what he was always known for before the quads came along, and he has made strides in presentation since those days too. Sure, he may not be at Chan or Hanyu's level overall, but is the difference so stark that a first time watcher can pin point and articulate so distinctly? I highly doubt it.

Well sorry, but just because you can't, doesn't mean other people can't either. It's not as if people might have other experiences that help them? Geez, I had a friend once watching with me who was doing ballet her whole life, and she caught on very quickly to how some people pump their backs doing cross overs to gain speed faster. To the point where she said that during the very first skater she watched. I'd think she immediatly had a better understanding about some aspects of skating and skating skills than a lot of people on this board. Some people actually don't need stuff spilled out for them. And yeah, I'm very sure a first time watcher could tell the difference between Patrick/Yuzu and Nathan pretty well. Different people to different extents, different things specifically, and they wouldn't know the right terms to describe stuff. But I'm sure they'd get the feeling of "yes, they're better".

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

Somewhat on topic, someone recognized the fact that Julian Yee deserved higher PCS marks since he was invited to the gala despite placing 15th. He should have been first or close to it in PE and Interpretation and his choreography score could have been near the top tier if not there as well. Will someone please champion this cause?

 

[Li'Kitsu]

Hanyu's short program has transitions. But the long not as much. Chen's short program has more content too. Once again 5 quads takes a lot mentally and physically.

Again, which is why he is getting the BV for these 5 quads.
And Yuzuru's SP has a lot more content than Nathans SP. His LP has less content than his SP, but still very decidedly more content than Nathans. That's what should be compared.

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

They need to just make transitions into a more objective assessment with levels. Just have a caller count the number of transitions and give a skater points for each one and then let them decide on the levels of each transition to determine difficulty. The judges can still use other PCS factors to determine if those transitions are actually adding to the program or if they're just there to be there like D/R or some of Savchenko/Szolkowy's programs where it's obvious they were only doing moves to give the impression that they have IJS programs.

 

[bekalc]

Again, which is why he is getting the BV for these 5 quads.
And Yuzuru's SP has a lot more content than Nathans SP. His LP has less content than his SP, but still very decidedly more content than Nathans. That's what should be compared.

And it was. Yuzuru got higher PCS than Nathan. Six points in the long is nothing to snuff at.

 

[Barb]

Hanyu's short program has transitions. But the long not as much. Chen's short program has more content too. Once again 5 quads takes a lot mentally and physically.

I literally counted considerable more transitions of Yuzu´s LP at GPF than Nathan´s LP. I am too lazy to do it again. Yuzu modified his program?

 

[Mrs. P]

Somewhat on topic, someone recognized the fact that Julian Yee deserved higher PCS marks since he was invited to the gala despite placing 15th. He should have been first or close to it in PE and Interpretation and his choreography score could have been near the top tier if not there as well. Will someone please champion this cause?

I'm not sure if that's reflective of something thinking he deserves higher PCS. I think he's an audience favorite, like Jason and Misha. At Worlds last year people were booing after his SP cause they felt his scores were too low. Though I guess that's a form of a case that he deserves better PCs.

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

I'm not sure if that's reflective of something thinking he deserves higher PCS. I think he's an audience favorite, like Jason and Misha. At Worlds last year people were booing after his SP cause they felt his scores were too low. Though I guess that's a form of a case that he deserves better PCs.

He was an audience favorite because of his performance quality and interpretation of the music. He did more to interpret his music and perform that program than every man who placed above him with the exception of Jason and yet there's a score differential in PE and INT that doesn't reflect reality that is more blatantly false than any other example being argued in this and the other thread.

 

[Mathman]

OP -- whole post

To me, this is the whole argument in favor of 6.0 ordinal judging versus IJS "add-up-the-points judging. From "the perspective of an outsider" it is usually pretty clear that this skater performed the bast, that one was second best, etc. At most it makes sense to have two scores, the technical content and the artistic presentation.

If a new fan says, I liked this one the best, but the judges didn't agree -- well, then, the explanation was simple: you liked this one the best but the judges didn't. (Maybe you could explain that the other skater got a higher tech score because he did a quad and the other guy didn't.)

The ISU decided to go a different way. The current scoring system is better for the skaters, better for coaches, better for national federations, better for children learning to skate, and better for the skating cognoscenti. In short, the IJS, for all our griping about it, is fine if you think that skating is a participatory sport. If we regard skating as a performance sport, where the audience is part if the equation, then we will always have difficulty in explaining the scoring.