i mean absolutely that makes sense and im so happy that there are amazing gay rights laws in canada. I'm kind of confused because just because things are really good in one place doesn't make it unnecessary to keep pushing for acceptance worldwide. Like you're saying "well i dont understand how world hunger is a thing and it annoys me when people talk about it all the time when i dont have any problem finding ingredients for my next meal"
Adam Rippon joins 2018 Time 100
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i mean absolutely that makes sense and im so happy that there are amazing gay rights laws in canada. I'm kind of confused because just because things are really good in one place doesn't make it unnecessary to keep pushing for acceptance worldwide. Like you're saying "well i dont understand how world hunger is a thing and it annoys me when people talk about it all the time when i dont have any problem finding ingredients for my next meal"
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Sorry, but to me it's a description of a horror film about some orwellian dystopian dictatorship . The end of the world. Sorry, but I will fight this as long as I live. So this puts you and me on opposite sides. And the moment you call me a "bigot" it will give me a right to call you the same.
Well, I think US athletes should answer those questions AND ALSO start talking about what happens in Saudi Arabia, a true US ally for both the Democrats and the Republicans. I know I expect too much but it would be a nice sign that gay people cannot be instrumentalized for internal American power struggles between two not so nice parties. Each of these two parties stands for permanent wars for profit and tolerates social injustice.
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And as far as I know, Adam, which is the subject of this thread, has never been asked. And I doubt very much, seeing his forthrightness and his honesty, that he would not answer if asked.
If you are saying that you think US athletes should just start talking about issues that are important to you, because they are important to you, well I’m sorry, that’s just sounds silly. There are plenty of subjects that are important to me, and no athlete is talking about them, and I’m not upset
He lives in the US, he talks about the US, because that’s what important to him. Good for him.
Adam has not been “instrumentalized”, Adam is not serving any particular “side”, Adam is staying true to himself, in a pretty funny and witty way, and is being recognized for it.
And this is a good thing:agree:
And as far as I know, Adam, which is the subject of this thread, has never been asked. And I doubt very much, seeing his forthrightness and his honesty, that he would not answer if asked.
If you are saying that you think US athletes should just start talking about issues that are important to you, because they are important to you, well I’m sorry, that’s just sounds silly. There are plenty of subjects that are important to me, and no athlete is talking about them, and I’m not upset
Adam has not been “instrumentalized”, Adam is not serving any particular “side”, Adam is staying true to himself, in a pretty funny and witty way, and is being recognized for it.
And this is a good thing:agree:
I said clearly that maybe I expect too much. Silly is indeed that you mean that the criticism of the repressions of LGBTQI people in Saudi Arabia is only important for me, and you take it as a reason to attack me. Your cynism is really outrageous. Apparently you are personally uninterested about such silly things and the silence of US authorities but I feel empathy for LGBTQI people in Saudi Arabia.
By the way if you mean to know that Adam was not instrumentalized; did you read the whole interview including Brennan's questions?
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I am sorry if that sounds attacking, I did not mean it that way. It is not silly for *you* to care about it, and to do everything you can to change the unjust laws in Saudi Arabia and to call out the Saudi Arabians if that is important to you.
But I remain convinced that it is silly to expect Adam Rippon, on his own, to address Saudi Arabia. And if he chooses not to address it, it does not mean he is being "used", it means he chooses not to address it.
Congratulations to Adam for being named in Time Magazine and for all the other recognition that has come his way!:agree:
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the main difference here is that Americans have all resources available to fight homophobia... while countries struck with famine do not have these resources. A few years ago, when Adam made his coming out, I posted along those lines too : who cares??? does anyone really need to do a coming out nowadays???
I was told very harshly by some American posters that yes... it is needed...
I feel fortunate to live in a country where my sexuality is nobody's business... I have never made a coming out.. i just lived my life my way... and my sexual orientation hasn't been what defines me....
in other words... some people talk about Adam Rippon and will be "oh... the gay skater??"
when they talk about Jeffrey Buttle, who has pretty much followed the pattern I am describing (just doing his own things including marrying a man) they will be "oh the wonderful choreographer or the world champion... " but "gay" doesn't appear as the main label for him...
This is what millie is after. It is like saying " i have this friend... he is a "insert ethnicity" student from my university... instead of just going with : he is a "insert major" student of my university.
Change takes a long time. Let's say Canadians got it easier but it's not really true... our charter of rights is just fairer in that sense and people develop openness earlier on. I send all my unicorns and rainbows down south every year but they get stuck at the border... what to do .. what to do...
If you read carefully the article by Christine Brennan for USA Today about her phone interview with Adam, you will find that Brennan did not publish her questions. So it is not clear, if Adam did make for example the following statement on his own:
”Four years ago, President Barack Obama asked several openly-gay athletes to serve on the U.S. delegations to the opening and closing ceremonies in Sochi, including tennis legend Billie Jean King, Olympic figure skating gold medalist Brian Boitano and two-time Olympic hockey medalist Caitlin Cahow.
“I think the move that President Obama made was very poignant and it was right in the midst of the huge controversy of gay propaganda being illegal in Russia,” Rippon said, referring to Russian President Vladimir Putin’s anti-gay efforts.
I know, it is too much to expect Adam, on his own, to adress Saudi Arabia, when he adresses (on his own?) Russia. But as I said, I do not know Brennan's questions. It is possible that the reason for Adam's statement was a purposeful question by Brennan that should have led him in a certain direction.
Yes, that is how articles like this are often written, as opposed to straight-forward transcriptions of interviews.
This is clearly Brennan providing context. Like a writer is supposed to do.
ETA: On a closer look, I think I understand why you seem confused. That quotation mark in the beginning of the passage you quoted is the one closing a previous remark made by Adam, but because there is a space missing after the quotation mark (so basically a typo) you seem to have thought that it marks the beginning of another Adam quote. Which is not the case, if you look at the whole passage and not only the part you copypasted here.
The words in quotes are clearly Adam's own words. Again, nothing unclear about this.
Brennan's line of questioning is really obvious here. She clearly broached the subject of US delegation in Sochi that included famous athletes who are openly gay. Adam provided an answer where he once again expressed that he isn't a fan of Putin's "gay propaganda" laws and that he appreciated Obama's gesture. Not the first time he's gotten this question and answered along these lines. So... How are you confused why Sochi and Russia's anti-gay laws were discussed but not Saudi-Arabia's, when Saudi-Arabia hasn't hosted any Olympics recently and Adam has never competed there? (You know Adam tried to qualify for the Sochi games but failed, right? And that the athletes who qualified had to answer a lot of questions about Russia's anti-gay law back in 2014? There's CONTEXT here and it is pretty obvious.)
Again... Adam is an Olympian. He tried to qualify for the Sochi Olympics but failed. His BBF Ashley was one of the few qualified athletes at the time who spoke openly and directly against Russia's anti-gay laws. IIRC Adam wasn't asked about all of this at the time, because he didn't qualify for the team and he wasn't out back then. Brennan knows all of this very well. Why wouldn't she ask Adam these questions this time around, when Olympics and LGBT issues converge once agin, although this time in a different context, namely that it's the US administration this time around that's getting criticized for pushing anti-LGBT legislation? How is Saudi-Arabia relevant to Pence leading the US delegation in Pyeongchang? How do you think Adam should have answered? "Well, Pence tries to push anti-LGBT legislation but have you heard of Saudi-Arabia? I've read an article or two and oh boy it's worse over there! No, I don't really know sh?t about Saudi-Arabia so please don't ask me to give you any coherent analysis of the situation there but I just thought I'm obligated to mention it because some people think you can't talk about Russia and USA if you don't talk about Saudi-Arabia in the same breath so here, I mentioned it!"
Btw. What annoys me about the media coverage around Adam is sometimes he is called an "activist". I don't think he's ever used that title himself, but some writers do. Actual activism is a lot of work. So when people who have dedicated to their life to excel at some craft (e.g. skating, acting, making music) and gotten attention for their craft and ended up with a platform... If they choose to use that platform to highlight some social issue that's important to them, good! If they actually know enough up about that issue so that they don't end up saying misguided and incorrect things, that get amplified by the media while the people actually doing activism and knowing things don't get their message across, great! I think Adam has done a pretty good job, e.g. highlighting the issues of transgender people who are a marginalized minority within a minority currently under legislative attack ("bathroom bills", the military ban, etc.). Usually when people talk about "LGBT issues", they forget about the "T" and the widespread discrimination trans people still face, so props for Adam for using the positive media attention he gets for being a photogenic and telegenic cis white gay Olympian to remind people that he's not representative of all LGBT folks and that the other letters in the acronym matter, too. But Adam's not an activist who's spent years in grassroots movement building or working for a non-profit or doing research on these issues, because he's been busy being the best athlete he can be. So I think it's unfair when media calls any famous person who speaks out on any social issue an "activist" and people expect these "activists" then to speak about a million issues in other parts of the world they've never even visited and probably don't know a lot about.
What valuable insight and input exactly could somebody like Adam give on Saudi-Arabia's situation? Everybody I know knows that the human rights situation there is dire and that it's not a good place for LGBT people. There are Saudi human rights activists and feminists who have a lot to say about Saudi-Arabia's situation and harrowing stories to tell, if we only listened to them; they sure are in better position to speak about the issues specific to their country than somebody who, like most of us here, probably has no connection to Saudi-Arabia, doesn't speak the language, isn't well versed in the cultural and legislative context, and has probably only read some articles about the oppression women and minorities face there. (Unless you think that what a white American man has to say is always more important than what somebody like Manal al-Sharif has to say.)
Why do you think people should prioritize speaking about countries and issues they know only little about, and probably would end up saying factually incorrect things about, instead of issues close to home they actually are familiar with and can speak at length about without screwing up the facts? Why do we have to assume that an athlete (or an actor, or a singer) with a very busy schedule must find time to also be an actual activist and/or research a wide variety of issues all over the globe so they can speak authoritatively about a wide variety of human rights issues in a hundred countries, as if they were somebody who's full time job is doing that? Could it be more constructive for us Western media consumers to contact journalists and media outlets and ask for more coverage about the issues we want to hear more about (like Saudi-Arabia) and support and promote the work of activists and journalists in (or at least familiar with) those countries instead of expecting that somebody like Adam should somehow be a perfect spokesperson and avatar for just about EVERY important issue EVERYWHERE?
I have a younger brother that is gay and married. I don’t refer to him as my gay brother, he is my brother. Also he don’t refer to me as his heterosexual sister. We are human beings, just that.
Thank you. Now it is clear for me that the keywords Russia, Obama, Putin (and Boitano) were brought into play by Brennan.
I am aware that many North Americans support Brennan's agenda, but that does not make it any better. It remains an agenda in sense of Brennan's publisher, and that's why I used the term instrumentalization.
I do not expect of Adam Rippon to be a LGBTQI activist or a peace activist. But I wished he (and Ashley Wagner and others) would be able to answer as follows:
Yes, I read (or heard) in the US media about the situation of LGBTQI people in Russia and that saddens me, if all the reports are correct. My message is that the gay rights should be respected all over the world.
It would help to fight against hypocrisy. I know, I am a dreamer.
i guess it's just a difference of opinion then. I find representation to be hugely important, especially after decades of gay erasure by the media. I'm glad we're getting positive gay role models who arent afraid to flaunt it
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I guess the USA just has a lot of catching up to do... You have had a lot of positive gay role models... real ones like Ellen and Neil Patrick Harris to name only two.. and fictional ones (Will and Grace... etc) . but this is the slight difference millie and I - we live in completely different areas of Canada, are telling you : we do not need for positive role models... a good role models can be straight, gay or whatever but what defines them is what they have done with their life, not who they have bedded.
Adam is an Olympic Bronze Medalist. He is great performer and entertainer. His skating should be enough to speak for itself or at least not be put in the background...
anyways... as you said, we seem to live in completely different worlds, and that's unfortunate.
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Adam has answered the question of “why is it important that you are a gay figure skater, why aren’t you just a *figure skater*, after all we’re all just children of God in this big wide wonderful earth” (OK, I added the last part
) what seems like a million gazillion times.
He has cogent and relevant answers, which since I’m on my iPad I can’t link, but are easily Google-able (is that a word?)
Fortunate, unfortunate, it’s the way it T-I-S, ‘tis, and Adam is dealing with the world he lives in. For that, I give him major props :agree:
) what seems like a million gazillion times.He has cogent and relevant answers, which since I’m on my iPad I can’t link, but are easily Google-able (is that a word?)
Fortunate, unfortunate, it’s the way it T-I-S, ‘tis, and Adam is dealing with the world he lives in. For that, I give him major props :agree:
good for you guys! But canada is not the standard of how the world is sadly and as far as i know adam has never tried to be an advocate for how lgbt are treated in canada specifically. again, just because you guys are happy and dandy and dont want representation doesnt mean it's not needed in other parts of the world. you cant take away the courage its taken for adam to come out and continue to be as flamboyantly gay as he's been despite people like you trying to take that part of him away. for you being gay may not be at the forefront of your identity but for some people it is. after CENTURIES of gay people being persecuted, tortured, murdered, etc for just being gay, i do think it's important to celebrate someone's queerness.
Adam has answered the question of “why is it important that you are a gay figure skater, why aren’t you just a *figure skater*, after all we’re all just children of God in this big wide wonderful earth” (OK, I added the last part
He has cogent and relevant answers, which since I’m on my iPad I can’t link, but are easily Google-able (is that a word?)
Fortunate, unfortunate, it’s the way it T-I-S, ‘tis, and Adam is dealing with the world he lives in. For that, I give him major props :agree:
Well spoken words of wisdom. Upon until the time that Adam revealed himself as gay, people were talking about his sexuality and wondering “is he “ or ‘is he not” not gay. They had their opinion about him. Now that he is stated that he is gay, people are saying “why because we don’t want to know that”. The main thing in this that Adam knows who he is...a perfect specimen of a beautiful human being....That’s all that matters...right.
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please stop putting words in my mouth : I am not taking anything away from Adam nor belittling his courage for coming out as an American. el henry got my point and answered it.
I am simply sharing that it is not the SAME situation in EVERY country on this planet. Perhaps if people looked at how others have found solutions to diverse situations, the whole world would get better.... i am not going to go further because this thread is about celebrating Adam
, which is what I came here to do 
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Anecdotally, re the discussion of Canada and America:
When Eric Radford came out in 2014, he chose to do so by giving an interview to Outsports.
When Adam came out in 2015, he chose to do so as a subtopic within a much wider-ranging article in Skating magazine that was about both Ashley and Adam. The part about Adam coming out was not the headline of the article.
When Adam came out in 2015, he chose to do so as a subtopic within a much wider-ranging article in Skating magazine that was about both Ashley and Adam. The part about Adam coming out was not the headline of the article.
Eric and Adam both did/do have my support for coming out.
They chose completely different types of audiences for their first comments. And that's perfectly fine.
I think Adam's choice makes it quite clear that he did not want his skating to be put in the background.
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I was just curious, because the example of Eric Radford has been brought up, and I know nothing of his story. It appears that Eric came out for the same reasons as I have read that Adam has, and is having the same effect, in Canada and elsewhere:
https://www.outsports.com/2018/2/24/17048034/eric-radford-olympics-figure-skating-gay-athlete
"As he’s received messages from LGBTQ people around the world, he [Radford] has fully embraced the conversation, talking about his historic medals as an out gay Olympian and sharing his personal life, including his engagement to his fiancé, fellow skater Luis Fenero.
“I had been wondering why are we talking about our sexuality,” Radford said. “But it is important, and it is making a difference. I know that from the messages I’ve received after my success here. As long as there are LGBT youth who are struggling with their own identity and don’t feel safe to be themselves, you need role models and examples not just for them but for everybody else.”
https://www.sportsnet.ca/olympics/big-read-eric-radford-coming-pushing-olympic-gold/
"In December 2014, I decided to come out publicly as a gay athlete in Outsports magazine. I had never felt compelled to talk about my sexuality before because I believed it was a non-issue. But I put myself in the position of a young kid, who might be afraid to follow their own dream. Or maybe they just want to get out of their own small town and do something in the world. If that young kid was able to see someone on TV — someone similar to myself, who was openly gay and winning medals — then maybe that would give them the confidence to feel it was truly possible for them. It could help anyone. It doesn’t have to be sexuality — it can just be about being or feeling different in general. I realized by speaking out, I could make a difference."
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43035476
After his win, Radford, 33, wrote on Twitter: "This is amazing! I literally feel like I might explode with pride." Later, he tweeted a smiling picture with Rippon, adding the hashtag "#outandproud". Fellow Canadian medallist and LGBT advocate Mark Tewksbury, who won a swimming gold in 1992, sent his congratulations. "FINALLY in 2018 an openly gay man is on top of the podium," he said. "No more isolation for LGBT sport men!!"
So I see where Eric at first thought it was private and a non-issue, and came to realize that it might not necessarily be so. I understand this is about Adam, but Adam and Eric appear to have much in common. to both of them!
https://www.outsports.com/2018/2/24/17048034/eric-radford-olympics-figure-skating-gay-athlete
"As he’s received messages from LGBTQ people around the world, he [Radford] has fully embraced the conversation, talking about his historic medals as an out gay Olympian and sharing his personal life, including his engagement to his fiancé, fellow skater Luis Fenero.
“I had been wondering why are we talking about our sexuality,” Radford said. “But it is important, and it is making a difference. I know that from the messages I’ve received after my success here. As long as there are LGBT youth who are struggling with their own identity and don’t feel safe to be themselves, you need role models and examples not just for them but for everybody else.”
https://www.sportsnet.ca/olympics/big-read-eric-radford-coming-pushing-olympic-gold/
"In December 2014, I decided to come out publicly as a gay athlete in Outsports magazine. I had never felt compelled to talk about my sexuality before because I believed it was a non-issue. But I put myself in the position of a young kid, who might be afraid to follow their own dream. Or maybe they just want to get out of their own small town and do something in the world. If that young kid was able to see someone on TV — someone similar to myself, who was openly gay and winning medals — then maybe that would give them the confidence to feel it was truly possible for them. It could help anyone. It doesn’t have to be sexuality — it can just be about being or feeling different in general. I realized by speaking out, I could make a difference."
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43035476
After his win, Radford, 33, wrote on Twitter: "This is amazing! I literally feel like I might explode with pride." Later, he tweeted a smiling picture with Rippon, adding the hashtag "#outandproud". Fellow Canadian medallist and LGBT advocate Mark Tewksbury, who won a swimming gold in 1992, sent his congratulations. "FINALLY in 2018 an openly gay man is on top of the podium," he said. "No more isolation for LGBT sport men!!"
So I see where Eric at first thought it was private and a non-issue, and came to realize that it might not necessarily be so. I understand this is about Adam, but Adam and Eric appear to have much in common.
to both of them!Similar threads
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