What Julia case? Julia placed top two at her nationals.
Ashley Wagner has earned U.S. spot for Sochi?
- Thread starter Taan
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What Julia case? Julia placed top two at her nationals.
It's just disgusting. Nothing like bending the rules when the 'wrong' skater fails to meet the criteria.
And yes, I am aware that there are no specific rules in the first place. Which is extremely unprofessional of USFS. But they have always gone on Nationals results in the past and Wagner lost to the third place skater by eight points.
I can't understand how people can question Edmunds' spot. She has beaten Nagasu at Nationals and she has had better results this season. This is as clear cut as it gets.
But since people cannot justify Edmunds not being sent to the Olympics based on her results, since her results are better, they make up stuff like this:
And this is relevant how? You think a skater who has skated at a very high level in Juniors for the last two seasons is suddenly going to fall apart at an international senior competition? Based on what grounds?
Edmunds would have had more accomplishments, had USFS not made the ridiculous decision not to send her to the JGP last season, after she has scored extremely well in a number of summer competitions. She might even have been eligible to compete at the GP this season.
Also, this might have been Edmunds' first senior nationals but she has comfortably won junior nationals last season.
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This is not true. The USFSA has sent non-top finalist to the Olympics. This statement is true for World Teams. My memory cannot think of a time where the top finishers did not make the World team, barring age eligibility issues. But Michelle Kwan, Nancy Kerrigan and Paul Wylie have been named to Olympic teams when they were not the top placers in the Nationals preceding the Olympics. So there is ample precedence to do whatever they like. There used to be a gauranteed spot for the Champion, but that was changed....not sure when.
I think had Ashley placed better in the long programs point wise it would make a stronger case for her. For example had she actually was placed third or higher in the long, but loss the bronze to Mirai based on the combined score. But this is not the case. In both programs Ashley did not place in the top three. It is true she has the strongest 2013 GP placement, but her poor standing at Nationals and the fact she has no world medal hurts her. Also, she really isn't a contender for an Olympic medal. Until very recently, she could be considered the US' strongest hope for a medal, but that mantle I think has passed to Gracie Gold. So it's harder for the International Committee to select her for the Olympic team. Is the International Committee still the ones who select the team or has that been assigned to another committee. I used to belong to the USFSA in the 80s, but dropped out when I went to grad school and haven't joined since.
I don't know why the US judges did what they did last night if they want it Ashley on the team in any case. She was judged very strictly in both of her programs while the others git more than they deserved. First of all, none of the top 4 had a clean FS, Ashley fell twice, Gracie and Polina once and Mirai had so many visible underrotations she wasn't called for and what was that, stopping to breathe?? I was happy for her, that she didn't have a meltdown like last year but it was very obvious that she doesn't train enough to jump and interpret the program in the same time. So, if Ashley was wanted in the team and not Mirai, this was not at all clear last night when Mirai got 125 for her program and 60 PCS for that jump and breathe program, while Ashley got 61 and this is the first time I really enjoyed her LP, I saw some changes in the choreography and she sold it well despite the mistakes. I didn't like her program when she skated it almost clean in her GP competitions. I don't want to say dump Mirai and take Ashley, what I want to say is that the judges are not fair at all and play with his girls hopes. How can you take something that you already gave? Why didn't they think about that last night when they give that score to Mirai? She was so happy, how can you take it back now? She is not prepared for the Olympics, she has no coach, no strategy and she is clearly out of shape. But tell her that know, after putting her in 3rd place. And how come she got level for for her step sequence and Ashley level 3? I don't get it.
Than, again, I love Polina, she is a very special skater but she reminds me of Carolina at that age, all jumps and nothing in between. She received 61 PCS for her long program as well as Ashley and she did nothing between her elements. And she had a fall. Like someone else already said she skated this program clean at JGPF and got 114p, how can she get 126 with a fall, even if this is a snior program? Why are they fooling themselves?
Gracie was good but not perfect, 68 PCS? ok, the program looked better but it still is boring. She clearly deserves her olympic spot. I say send Gracie and Polina and sent Mirai, Ashley and Samantha to 4CC. This is the way Japan or Russia would do and it's more wiser. You can't dump Mirai but you can;t ditch Ashley either for having a bad competition, when Mirai had so many bad competitions. I think Ashley will come back to her self in the international competitions but I wouldn't sent her to the Olympics until I don't see her competing one more time at 4CC to convince us that what happened at nationals was her nerves and memories form 4 years ago when the same thing happened. She must have said: "Oh, my god, it's happening again!".
I was heartbroken because of Christina. I hoped she could come in 4th and she had that chance, she started so good with a beautiful 3f-3t but she couldn't face the emotion in the same way as Wagner. She gave it all up for this olympic chance and that's all she ever thought about for the last year. It is true that she didn't have a very good season but she was the best she's ever been. Last year her spins were slow, she was slow and not so mature as she was this year. I am so sad that she might gave up on all of her work after these nationals, exactely when she was becoming a complete skater.
Than, again, I love Polina, she is a very special skater but she reminds me of Carolina at that age, all jumps and nothing in between. She received 61 PCS for her long program as well as Ashley and she did nothing between her elements. And she had a fall. Like someone else already said she skated this program clean at JGPF and got 114p, how can she get 126 with a fall, even if this is a snior program? Why are they fooling themselves?
Gracie was good but not perfect, 68 PCS? ok, the program looked better but it still is boring. She clearly deserves her olympic spot. I say send Gracie and Polina and sent Mirai, Ashley and Samantha to 4CC. This is the way Japan or Russia would do and it's more wiser. You can't dump Mirai but you can;t ditch Ashley either for having a bad competition, when Mirai had so many bad competitions. I think Ashley will come back to her self in the international competitions but I wouldn't sent her to the Olympics until I don't see her competing one more time at 4CC to convince us that what happened at nationals was her nerves and memories form 4 years ago when the same thing happened. She must have said: "Oh, my god, it's happening again!".
I was heartbroken because of Christina. I hoped she could come in 4th and she had that chance, she started so good with a beautiful 3f-3t but she couldn't face the emotion in the same way as Wagner. She gave it all up for this olympic chance and that's all she ever thought about for the last year. It is true that she didn't have a very good season but she was the best she's ever been. Last year her spins were slow, she was slow and not so mature as she was this year. I am so sad that she might gave up on all of her work after these nationals, exactely when she was becoming a complete skater.
If the USFS wanted Wagner on the team so much, the judges could have given Nagasu negative GOE for her visibly cheated jumps and gave her lower PCS for weak choreo and 'taking a break' in the middle of the program. I mean, I just don't get it. If you want to bump her off the team, why overmark her in the first place... 
You are right. But there were exceptional circumstances with Kerrigan. As for Kwan, she is one of the most accomplished female skaters in the history of the sport. Wagner doesn't even have a single Worlds medal.
You are right. But there were exceptional circumstances with Kerrigan. As for Kwan, she is one of the most accomplished female skaters in the history of the sport. Wagner doesn't even have a single Worlds medal.
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But if you think that probably Gracie with her excellent performance at Nationals have peaked right now and can loose her peak form next month.. Shouldn't be better decision to leave her at home for this reason?
Seriously: athlete can have 2 or more peaks during the season. If Ashley has a slump at the moment, probably the second peak will be exactly an Olympic time.
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I thought she double-footed a few of them? Do we count double-footed jumps as being "clean"?
huh? That is totally incorrect.Paul Wylie finished 2nd at 1988 and 1992 nationals behind Boitano and Bowman (who BOTH were selected to the Olympic team along with Wylie). Both times the USFS used the top 3 finishers of Nationals to decide Olympic teams. This shows the precedence of USFS is to select the Olympic team based on Nationals results.
The circumstances surrounding Kerrigan were completely different.
Kwan had a medical bye due to injury so she didn't even have a chance to compete with the other ladies.
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Ashley speaks out on principle in other matters. I wonder what she would say here if asked how she would feel if a skater who outperformed her, fair and square, at Nationals has to be bumped.
She was not just beat here. She was thumped. She totally created this mess and is responsible for it. I have only sympathy for the skater who has to be (is going to be) bumped.
She was not just beat here. She was thumped. She totally created this mess and is responsible for it. I have only sympathy for the skater who has to be (is going to be) bumped.
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Don't drag Michelle & Nancy into the debate to support Ashley. Michelle had an injury, and Nancy got her knee smashed. Who clubbed Ashley's knee?
Ashley has a better chance of medalling than Polina or Mirai. Mirai has a better chance of medalling than Polina. Gracie Gold- though technically proficient, is prone to meltdowns at th big events. Polina is so green, the judges will never give her the time of day.
I say, take Polina out and send her to Junior Worlds. We have enough teens on the top 10. Can she even beat Radionova.
Had it not been for Ashley- US ladies figure skating would have been kaputz this quad. Fact.
I say, take Polina out and send her to Junior Worlds. We have enough teens on the top 10. Can she even beat Radionova.
Had it not been for Ashley- US ladies figure skating would have been kaputz this quad. Fact.
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Not making a case of anything. Just pointing out that the USFSA can do whatever they like regarding sending skaters to the Olympics
It is completely irrelevant who has or doesn't have a chance to medal. You can't bend the rules because a skater you don't like or you don't think is worthy, met the criteria. It's skaters' lives were are talking about. They have worked hard for this all of their life. Which is why the decisions should be made on tangible competition results and not what people think might or might not happen or what judges might or might not maybe do.
Competition results is not just only nationals. Being European, I never understood the US obsession with sending the top 3 from nationals in many sports. Some have ended up there just by having a good day while the rest of their season had been abysmal.
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Julia should have been 1st to boost her reputation, but even that it didn't work out, it shouldn't lessen her accomplishments this season and her chances are still high, as Ashley's. That's my point. Julia had a trash performance too, by the way, at the COR. So what? I still place her high.
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She won't beat Radionova if she is coming. I think it's better send her to Olys, to get the experience. Cause she is the future for US...
I agree. But USFS hasn't done so in the past and they don't have rules stating that multiple competitions count when deciding the team (and in what way).
I agree with that reasoning (although not sure why you mention Edmunds) but :
a) it should have been written down and a precise way of determining the team should have been set (for example: highest average season score, highest best season score, highest best TES, highest average TES, or something else)
b) it should apply to all skaters equally and not just Wagner
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If the USFS wanted Wagner on the team so much, the judges could have given Nagasu negative GOE for her visibly cheated jumps and gave her lower PCS for weak choreo and 'taking a break' in the middle of the program. I mean, I just don't get it. If you want to bump her off the team, why overmark her in the first place...
I have always wondered about that assumption, that if the USFSA brass desires a certain result then the judges will automatically toe the line. I hope not.
About Mirai's performance (excellent though it was), even Scott Hamilton, commenting for NBC television, noted that she was just resting in the middle, waiting for the half-way mark so she could do some more jumps.
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Wylie finished 2nd at Nationals. The US men had 3 spots. He got on the team. That happened both times he went to the Olympics; 1988 and 1992.
Michelle and Nancy were not able to compete at Nationals due to injury and some loser and his iron rod. They were given a bye under provision that they'd be fit for the Olympics. They were both Gold Medal contenders after all. Ashley didn't not compete at Nationals, she lost at Nationals.
Ample precedence?
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