Ladies LP

[fiercemao]

As happy as I am for Fumie, Alissa and Joannie; I'm crushed for Caroline. I just don't get it. :scratch: If a bunch of amateurs on a message board can tell what Caroline's problems are, why can't her coaches and trainers? Don’t they get paid a lot of money to figure these things out? Don’t they watch her skate? Can’t they buy a $50 camcorder off eBay, record her practices, play them in slow motion and figure out what’s wrong? Has somebody at least told her she needs to skate faster?

I wish these people would get off their butts and do their jobs! :scowl:

OK, rant over now.

I think your assertion is quite amateurish. Of course she knows she has to skate faster, but can she? of course she wants better jump technique, but can she still rotate and land a 3flip/3lutz without that mule kicking? It's crazy to believe coaches can somehow pull a magic trick and turn everybody into a 100-metre world champ. Evan has a good coach, but his 3A keeps getting scarier and scarier.

I truly believe coaching matters very little if a skater does not have a natural talent in specific area such as jumps. Kimmie Messiner went to a jump specialist, we keep hearing all these rosy predictions that she has 'fixed' it. Well, has she? The truth is Kimmie doesn't have the natural spring in her jumps, and she's prone to underrotation when her body fills out. I doubt any coach can magically help her to become a consistent jumper. We shall see.

 

[bekalc]

As happy as I am for Fumie, Alissa and Joannie; I'm crushed for Caroline. I just don't get it. :scratch: If a bunch of amateurs on a message board can tell what Caroline's problems are, why can't her coaches and trainers? Don’t they get paid a lot of money to figure these things out? Don’t they watch her skate? Can’t they buy a $50 camcorder off eBay, record her practices, play them in slow motion and figure out what’s wrong? Has somebody at least told her she needs to skate faster?

I wish these people would get off their butts and do their jobs! :scowl:

OK, rant over now.

As FierceMao was saying: If it was that easy, everyone would have amazing triple jumps.

 

[R.D.]

I'm willing to give Time and the Benefit Of The Doubt in all cases. Let's play the Wait And See game and see what happens. Look at what happened to Kostner: I don't see any doom-and-gloom predictions for her. At the same time, most people are willing to cut Meissner slack (who's been struggling for over a year now) while still lamenting on Zhang, Czisny, and others. It doesn't quite make sense. :think:

 

[shine]

I thought that was so unprofessional, especially in the presence of other very good female skaters, including two multiple world medalists. Of course Joannie beat all of them with a great margin, but rude nonetheless.

Um, I thought what Liz meant was that she could finally leave Canadian Women's skating in Joannie's hand and that she's a medal contender for the Olympics. I'm not sure why that is rude? Are those other very good female skaters skating for Canada?

 

[Bennett]

Joannie had faced such high expectations before. Remember at 2006 worlds in Canada, she was 1st after the qualifying round, and everybody was talking about her of getting a medal, and even a gold. She bombed badly in FP.
.

This reminds me of Jeff at 2006 worlds in Canada, too. He also had an unfortunate result there. He explained later in his long interview that he was not prepared well because he was so focused on the Olympics. But I guess that the home crowd also might have been a lot of pressures for him after getting Bronze at the Olympics. For Joannie, the next Olympics in front of the home crowd could be tremendous pressures and I imagine that it may be a newer experience for her.

Although I never had an impression that Joannie was strong under pressures, she looked really relaxed at this time. I am happy for her. I thought that she mentioned working with a sport psychologist. I hope that it works. I hope that she could focus not only on results but also on enjoying herself as Jeff did during his Olympic LP.

 

[Andalusia]

I sort of agree with most of what you said. I think that Joannie's score was inflated and when you take a close look at her protocol sheet, it looks like Joannie pretty much maxed out her scores. In fact, I wonder if Joannie' will get the kind of score she did here had she been at other grand prix events against Mao or YuNa. YuNa would probably have gotten higher score with the same skate had she been skating here.

There were some judges who actually gave Joannie no negative GOEs for her sal sequence in the LP, which is a joke as she clearly wasn't clean on that element. She was blatantly overscored at this event, as was Patrick Chan. I still believe Joannie's the rightful winner, but her scores shouldn't have been maxed out to such an extent.

I don't know what mojo the Canadian skating federation has with the ISU, but I'll bet the Olympics being hosted in Vancouver has something to do with it. I expect this kind of overscoring to continue with skaters who represent the 'right' countries.

 

[Bennett]

There were some judges who actually gave Joannie no negative GOEs for her sal sequence in the LP, which is a joke as she clearly wasn't clean on that element. She was blatantly overscored at this event, as was Patrick Chan. I still believe Joannie's the rightful winner, but her scores shouldn't have been maxed out to such an extent.

I don't know what mojo the Canadian skating federation has with the ISU, but I'll bet the Olympics being hosted in Vancouver has something to do with it. I expect this kind of overscoring to continue with skaters who represent the 'right' countries.

When I checked the protocol, I had an impression that not only Joannie but also other female skaters received inflated scores at this competition. I felt that both the caller and judges were generous about URs and edges.

 

[ks777]

There was also a judge who gave Yuna Kim 0 on her flawed 2 axel at Skate America last week.Those judges should be banned for a couple years.

 

[oleada]

When I checked the protocol, I had an impression that not only Joannie but also other female skaters received inflated scores at this competition. I felt that both the caller and judges were generous about URs and edges.

This is right. Another caller might have been far more nitpicky (some of Alissa's triples in the free and Caroline's 3T come to mind). Fumie didn't receive a "!" nor a "e" for her flutz, but (imo) it was still there.

 

[Bennett]

This is right. Another caller might have been far more nitpicky (some of Alissa's triples in the free and Caroline's 3T come to mind). Fumie didn't receive a "!" nor a "e" for her flutz, but (imo) it was still there.

I agree that Fumie might have needed to receive a "!" or an "e". Did you mean that there are two callers who work individually and that Fumie and Alissa/Caroline had different callers?

 

[Andalusia]

I agree that Fumie might have needed to receive a "!" or an "e". Did you mean that there are two callers who work individually and that Fumie and Alissa/Caroline had different callers?

I think she meant that if another caller had been assigned to SC, he/she might have been more stringent with Alissa and Caroline's perceived errors.

I looked closely at Caroline's 3T and Alissa's jumps, and they didn't look UR to me, although I could be mistaken. I do think the caller could have deemed Fumie's lutz a flutz if he/she had wanted to be strict, though.

I must say I think Caroline and Alissa in particular would have been declared dead at SA, even if they really hadn't underrotated and what not.

 

[demarinis5]

I felt this program was very much based on Michelle's 2003 one. Is it the same choreographer?

Joannie's program was choreographed my Lori Nicol who Michelle used many times prior to 2003 , but she stopped using Lori about the same time she split form her coach Frank Carroll. Michelle's Aranuez program was choreographed by NM, Scott Williams, Karen Kwan and Michelle.

 

[Tonichelle]

whoa, Joannie's not using David Wilson this year??

 

[fumie_fumie]

Apparently, rumour says that David Wilson is too occupied with Yu-na Kim to have time for Joannie and he gets paid enough from Korean federation to keep him going. It was for this reason Joannie kept her LP Don Juan for two years: David said he would make a new LP for her and turned out he didn't have time for Joannie. So this time Joannie got smarter and sought a new choreographer as soon as the last season ended.

 

[Mathman]

Apparently at the exhibition Manley went on and on about how she can pass the torch to Joannie and Olympic champion (yikes!)

I though that part was all right. Where the interview went a little off, IMO, was when Liz was asked about the difference in ladies figure skating between her era and now.

Liz said something to the effect that that now all the skaters had to try to do the harder elements to score points, whereas in her day, she (Liz) was the only one who could do the hard stuff. Maybe she meant in Canada.

 

[Wrlmy]

Um, I thought what Liz meant was that she could finally leave Canadian Women's skating in Joannie's hand and that she's a medal contender for the Olympics. I'm not sure why that is rude? Are those other very good female skaters skating for Canada?

I'm sure she meant well, and she might as well be right. I just thought it was sorta inappropriate for the occasion, which was definitely not Canadian nationals.
And Josee Chouinard had just as successful career as Joannie, although Joannie will certainly top that.

Apparently, rumour says that David Wilson is too occupied with Yu-na Kim to have time for Joannie and he gets paid enough from Korean federation to keep him going. It was for this reason Joannie kept her LP Don Juan for two years: David said he would make a new LP for her and turned out he didn't have time for Joannie. So this time Joannie got smarter and sought a new choreographer as soon as the last season ended.

But didn't he choreagraph a lot of programs last year for other skaters? But I do remember Joannie's interview from last year where she said non-Canadian skaters were "monopolizing" Wilson. In fact, I can't think of any international level Canadian skater other than Cynthia who works with Wilson.
It's a shame she's not working with Wilson because I just loved Don Juan. As great as Lori's Aranjuez is, Don Juan was my top favorite ladies program last year.

 

[Kinga]

I think that Joannie's score was inflated and when you take a close look at her protocol sheet, it looks like Joannie pretty much maxed out her scores. In fact, I wonder if Joannie' will get the kind of score she did here had she been at other grand prix events against Mao or YuNa. YuNa would probably have gotten higher score with the same skate had she been skating here.

Hmmm.. Why would she get higher score with the same skate? Because she is Yuna? Wouldnt it be a gift from judges? Her score at SA was also a bit inflated in SP, so why would she have to score higher in SC with the same skate? I just dont get it! I do not like to compare two different competitions, but I think Joannie skate was a bit better than Yuna's. She had her flaws too.

I never got why people seem to make Kim and Asada seem like the unbeatable and unshakable top 2? Didn't Ando win Worlds beating both in 2007? Didn't Kim slip to bronze last year? And to me, the level Joannie was skating at at this competition, aside from the 3-3, is beyond anything Ando has ever reached. So if she gets her 3-3, I don't see how she cannot be AT LEAST competitve?

This is what I have been trying to say many times. I am glad that someone gets it

But, wasn't Irina considered a strong favorite in Torino because Mao & YuNa weren't there due to their age?

I think it is pushing it a bit too much. First,they were so young that I am not sure that they would have handled the pressure and it did not make them 100% favorites. Second, at that time their skating was already technically excellent, artistically ok, but lets not exaggerate, at that time they were not the most mature and the most beautiful skaters I have seen.

 

[fumie_fumie]

But didn't he choreagraph a lot of programs last year for other skaters? But I do remember Joannie's interview from last year where she said non-Canadian skaters were "monopolizing" Wilson. In fact, I can't think of any international level Canadian skater other than Cynthia who works with Wilson.
It's a shame she's not working with Wilson because I just loved Don Juan. As great as Lori's Aranjuez is, Don Juan was my top favorite ladies program last year.

If Joannie continues on her upward swing this year, the chances of Wilson working with Joannie will be next to nothing. Would anyone with common business sense want to risk losing their biggest client?

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I'm always amazed how fans can watch a video and see wrong edge take-offs, and under rotations that the Caller and his Team missed. Who was the Caller that misses these important points in competitions?

 

[bibi]

I personally don't think Joannie will ever get a consistent 3F-3T. She just isn't able to get enough snap off of her 3F landings. It would be wise to train the 3T-3T instead.

If you would have see Joannie's practices at Skate Canada, you wouldn't say that. I think the only attempt of the triple-triple that Joannie missed was in the SP....I saw all the practices, and she landed each triple-triple she tried except one that she steped out of the landing.