Yuzuru Hanyu: 2014-15 Season

[unico]

about the TSL interview... i kinda find it... i dont know.. amusing? On how civil they were when they were talking about yuzuru and his poto program to shae when they have been the ones who kept on saying how empty the choreography was the whole season and calls yuzuru as underwhelming. I mean they could have talked to shae on how they hated it to her face so she'll know what they actually thought about the program and not pretend to like it. :disapp:
And i was really surprised that the girl from the vid actually complimented yuzuru lol.

Jenny Kirk is a self-professed Hanyu-fan, it's Dave Lease that has most of the issues with Hanyu's skating To be honest though, a lot of the things he has said about POTO is true if you take it in the context that Lease holds Hanyu in a very high standard, so him saying it's an empty/transitionless program is true for a skater of Hanyu's calibre (just compare R&J2 to POTO). Of course, this season is a bit of an anomaly given how Hanyu's had to reconstruct his game plan to factor in everything that's gone on.

If he didn't keep it next season I hope we can see the complete POTO at exhibition :think:, like he did with NDP at 2013 TEB ex. Was the NDP at the ex the full version, it did contain a quad I think?

His TEB EX of Notre Dame de Paris was sublime and made me see what I thought was a completely underwhelming program in a new light. It wasn't the full thing, it cut out the dreary and tedious middle section, and the condensed result is wonderful. His posture was noticeably better than the previous season. Complete with a quad toe so light that Nicky Slater thought it was a triple, but I forgive him, he is an ice dancer after all If he were to ever do POTO as an EX in the future it might be interesting, but most likely not the entire program.

 

[annca]

Lol I was thinking the same thing. I think listening to story of the program as well as knowing it was unfinished could have swayed her opinion a bit, since Shae did explain that she wanted to fix more, but unfortunately Yuzu has not had the opportunity to polish it up like other skaters. But I do think she was being honest about saying that Yuzu has one of the better POTOs or the best POTO of the season.

Well...i do hope so since ive read and watched what they said about the program during the gp series and... oh boy..
and i hope that shae will be able to work with yuzuru more about some extra details to polish it once he comes back to toronto.

I like what Shae said about yuzuru and when she described him on ice. "He's a feather, he does one push and he flies"
i think being light is one of the qualities that i adore about his skating. Maybe thats why i think buttle's chopin works for him because it makes him look light, airy, and flowy which he is. Its kinda like playing to your strengths and making it work .

Jenny Kirk is a self-professed Hanyu-fan, it's Dave Lease that has most of the issues with Hanyu's skating To be honest though, a lot of the things he has said about POTO is true if you take it in the context that Lease holds Hanyu in a very high standard, so him saying it's an empty/transitionless program is true for a skater of Hanyu's calibre (just compare R&J2 to POTO). Of course, this season is a bit of an anomaly given how Hanyu's had to reconstruct his game plan to factor in everything that's gone on.

She is? Cause really.. the way they talked about him during nhk, and at gpf. Calling him as an underwhelming olympic champion.. so thats a surprise.
Transition(less)? Well i guess thats what he meant since their tweets during the gpf said that the program was average for a skater his level and it does nothing for him(dave(?)) so i was really amused when they mentioned that they liked the program to shae lol (well i guess since jenny was the only one who said that she likes it )

 

[chezzu]

Well, it's not like they're not telling the truth lol. He IS an underwhelming Olympic champion, and I say this as a BIG Hanyu fan. He won because the Mens competition (well, the FS portion) was very blah, Chan made mistakes and the others were too far behind. And it's okay, underwhelming or not, Olympic champion is what he is, and no one can take that away. He's improving rather than stagnating (a factor may be that he's using his underwhelming Olympics as motivation and wants to win 2018 with a big bang). And the POTO program is average... but it doesn't mean one can't like it -- it's just not what Hanyu's fully capable of. Just my opinion of course

 

[matmuh]

Well, it's not like they're not telling the truth lol. He IS an underwhelming Olympic champion, and I say this as a BIG Hanyu fan. He won because the Mens competition (well, the FS portion) was very blah, Chan made mistakes and the others were too far behind. And it's okay, underwhelming or not, Olympic champion is what he is, and no one can take that away. He's improving rather than stagnating (a factor may be that he's using his underwhelming Olympics as motivation and wants to win 2018 with a big bang). And the POTO program is average... but it doesn't mean one can't like it -- it's just not what Hanyu's fully capable of. Just my opinion of course

i think it depends on how you look at it, calling him underwhelming sounds to me like he doesnt deserved it, yes he wasnt perfect at sochi (well only for FP) but after that he proved he is worthy at worlds and at gpf this year , GPS was exceptions for obvious reasons but then again his will to continue also shows to me that he is worthy, and thats all he want to show to the people. but i see your point
and thanks everyone for updates and everything

 

[Rissa]

I dont know if i want him to keep it for next season really. So im hoping for a miracle that we'll be able to see the complete program at worlds( even without the quad at the second part of the program is fine)

If he manages to pull off a chorreographically good POTO without a quad ain the middle, he might want to aim to do a chorreagraphically perfect POTO with a quad in the middle next season. If it takes him 2 seasons to perfect a program, as we've seen with Parisianne Walkways, maybe he should take his time? It's fewer programs for fans to see, but higher quality ones and more records broken perhaps?

 

[Meoima]

i think it depends on how you look at it, calling him underwhelming sounds to me like he doesnt deserved it, yes he wasnt perfect at sochi (well only for FP) but after that he proved he is worthy at worlds and at gpf this year , GPS was exceptions for obvious reasons but then again his will to continue also shows to me that he is worthy, and thats all he want to show to the people. but i see your point
and thanks everyone for updates and everything

Agree, it's like they thought he didn't deserve the title while in fact a win is still a win and there have been many competitions that were not on the high level that most people expect (hello Scott Hamilton ). And in that particular night at Sochi, while he was not at his best, was still the best there under the current scoring system.

The way The Skating Lesson talked make all of his effort sound so unimpressed to them while in fact just give all the top men in the same situation I am sure they would just take a season off to rest and rehab.

What I don't like about TSL is that they don't appreciate his efforts. I don't mind if they don't enjoy Yuzuru. But the way they talk makes all of Yuzuru's struggles from the previous season to this season, all of the burdens he has had to bear on his shoulders, all of the injuries... seem like nothing to them.

For example I am not really a fan of Adelina, but I appreciate that she did pull herself together under that pressure in Sochi and produced two very energetic programs. I am not a Yuna fan at all and I think many of her programs are not interesting/innovative but I appreciate her toughness to skate so consistently. There's a line between being unbiased critics with totally biased. And I think TSL is very biased against Yuzuru.

 

[cruzceleste]

I have long accepted that Yuzuru´s not everyone cup of tea, and while I can take critics, and difference in opinion, and I try not to get into tehc discussion because I´m not a good caller; I think both Jenny and Dave sometimes or most times go for nasty low blows, not only for Yuzuru but other skaters. So I don´t normally read or watch their videos.

Having said that they did talk more or lest good about Yuzuru in their Japan Nationals video. But I agree with Meoima that they seem to have forgotten that this season is really have been a strange one for him, with the crash at CoC, his back injury and now his operation. And I don´t expect them to just give him a pass, but a little perspective and respect will be nice.

Is not surprise that they didn´t adress the "negatives"in POTO choreo with Shae Lynn, they are fans not journalist, and so they try "be good" in front of the people they are interviewing, so I don´t expect they act like Anderson Cooper. They are the Nancy Grace of figure skating.

 

[Interspectator]

I'm curious, where would people rank Yuzu's transitions in his POTO FS (as he skated it at GPF and Nationals) when compared with other skaters FS this year?
If it's just the GPF competitors to compare with, I'd put him behind Fernadez and Machida but in front of Kovtun and Vornov. There is, in fact, quite a lot going on in that program.
I actually really like this years FS. Much better than last years, but I want to see what Shae Lynn Bourne and Hanyu can do to improve it at WC.

 

[Meoima]

I think all people here all agree that Yuzuru's POTO has less transitions if we compare to his R&J 2.0, I think it's understandable since it's the simplified version of the original POTO due to his health condition.

I also think the same as you, that Javi and Tatsuki's LP have showed more transitions at this point.

From FSUniverse, I have heard that Yuzuru's original POTO were more loaded with transitions and difficult entries. I hope Shae-Lynn will help him with all the extensions, arm movements... to make it better.

Still he has just been discharged from the hospital and God knows when he will be back to Canada to rework his POTO. I don't even know if by now he still has the muscles to practice jumping in a short time.

 

[HanDomi]

I do't know if they can improve it for WC, because he will loose a bit of strength from already not perfect physical condition, but the good thing is he will have instant time in Toronto to train without breaks like it was between COC and GPF so we will see

I think he will have enough time to rebuild his strength to level before operation but 3 quads are not possible for WC

 

[alia jackson]

When people put it that say, I'm thinking does that mean Patrick is underwhelming Worlds champion for 2012 and 2013 as well?

Yuzuru was perfect in the SP with a world record 101.45. In FS everyone was not doing well and he was the best among them in terms of points. Total it all up and he deserved to win.

This year you will need to take into account the collision which require him to water down the program as he is not in good health and not enough training. He can choose not to compete at all but he still go out there and skated. Of course it is not what he is capable off because he is not 100% healthy. And he still beat skaters that 100% healthy .

 

[unico]

Well, it's not like they're not telling the truth lol. He IS an underwhelming Olympic champion, and I say this as a BIG Hanyu fan. He won because the Mens competition (well, the FS portion) was very blah, Chan made mistakes and the others were too far behind. And it's okay, underwhelming or not, Olympic champion is what he is, and no one can take that away. He's improving rather than stagnating (a factor may be that he's using his underwhelming Olympics as motivation and wants to win 2018 with a big bang). And the POTO program is average... but it doesn't mean one can't like it -- it's just not what Hanyu's fully capable of. Just my opinion of course

I think there needs to be a distinction between an underwhelming Olympic champion versus an Olympic champion who won the Olympics underwhelmingly... I completely agree that he's the latter because the men's FS at Sochi was all kinds of disappointing, but I don't think he's the former i.e. underwhelming as a skater who happens to be the Olympic champion. The fact that he was the only Olympic champion to participate in Worlds, and the only Olympic champion to go on and even try competing in the next Grand Prix season and has an absolute nightmare of one, struggling terribly in front of the whole world and all his critics/people who thought he didn't deserve to win X or Y titles or who are resolved to say that he's always overmarked (while refusing to acknowledge any of the qualities of his skating that made him a champion in the first place)... it speaks volumes to me about his character and he is a more than worthy "Olympic champion".

So I don't agree with TSL that he's an underwhelming Olympic champion at all. He's simply just an Olympic champion with wonderful Olympic-champion-worthy qualities, that has had underwhelming skates (regardless of his injuries and how affected he may/may not have been affected by it, because if he doesn't use them as excuses then I think fans shouldn't rely on them too heavily either). This is I think why many quit after achieving the OGM, so that they can end their career on the highest note and their failures won't continually be held up to some ridiculously high standard of what the "Olympic champion" should be and this is what makes Hanyu unique and above all, what proves his strength.

I'm curious, where would people rank Yuzu's transitions in his POTO FS (as he skated it at GPF and Nationals) when compared with other skaters FS this year?
If it's just the GPF competitors to compare with, I'd put him behind Fernadez and Machida but in front of Kovtun and Vornov. There is, in fact, quite a lot going on in that program.
I actually really like this years FS. Much better than last years, but I want to see what Shae Lynn Bourne and Hanyu can do to improve it at WC.

I would agree with you. Although maybe I would have to watch Kovtun's LP again, I seem to remember him having transitions directly out of his quads(!), although maybe not too much else going otherwise. Or maybe that was his SP? But yes, Fernandez's program seems difficult like hell. Voronov, as entertaining and charming a character he is (I'm a fan), was really quite below the other skaters at the GPF in terms of skating/program quality. Not too sure about Mura, I admit that I don't rewatch it so I'm not all POTO-burnt out for Hanyu's lol

 

[cruzceleste]

Another Yuzuru fan boy?

The same fan that did the scheme for Yuzuru´s ice coverage, did one only with his step sequence

 

[Interspectator]

Another Yuzuru fan boy?

The same fan that did the scheme for Yuzuru´s ice coverage, did one only with his step sequence

Well, if you are going to copy his shirt, that one is a better choice.

 

[PatricksGaze]

Was it Yuzuru who chose to skate to Romeo&Juliet last season or Brian and David chose it for him? Some people say he wanted to skate POTO in Olympic season but I don't remember any source of that info. I have always thought he wanted to use R&J specially for Olympics.

 

[jace93]

Was it Yuzuru who chose to skate to Romeo&Juliet last season or Brian and David chose it for him? Some people say he wanted to skate POTO in Olympic season but I don't remember any source of that info. I have always thought he wanted to use R&J specially for Olympics.

Last year the decision was between R&J and Carmina Burana IIRC

 

[Eloyse]

Speaking of transitionless and empty, his R&J 1.0 was a little bit empty, but the music and his youthful passion directed away people's attention (this is just my personal opinion). R&J 2.0 was so much better in terms of transitions, but it was too technical and less artistic. POTO had the potential to be a classical program of his, but....so, for whatever reason, so far none of yuzuru's LPs have shown his full ability. What a shame. In contrast, his PW and Chopin and a few ex are near perfection and should be remembered for many many years.

I don't want him to keep POTO (especially this version) next season. If he's going to keep one program I hope it's ballade. Just personal preference.

 

[Interspectator]

Last year the decision was between R&J and Carmina Burana IIRC

But Hanyu also said he had always wanted to do POTO so maybe the discussion went something like this for the last few years:

Hanyu: What about Poto? I love POTO!
Coach: Let's try something like Poto...like Notradame de Paris?
Hanyu: hmmmm....ooookaaaay

Next year

Hanyu: This year I want to do POTO
Coach: What about Carmina or anything but POTO
Hanyu: If I win the Olympics, I will skate whatever I want
Coach: If you win the Olympics

This Year

Hanyu: POTO!!! AT LAAAAAST! I want to be Christine!
Coach: ....

Sorry. My imagination runs away with me.

 

[HanDomi]

But Hanyu also said he had always wanted to do POTO so maybe the discussion went something like this for the last few years:

Hanyu: What about Poto? I love POTO!
Coach: Let's try something like Poto...like Notradame de Paris?
Hanyu: hmmmm....ooookaaaay

Next year

Hanyu: This year I want to do POTO
Coach: What about Carmina or anything but POTO
Hanyu: If I win the Olympics, I will skate whatever I want
Coach: If you win the Olympics

This Year

Hanyu: POTO!!! AT LAAAAAST! I want to be Christine!
Coach: ....

Sorry. My imagination runs away with me.

 

[Hanmgse]

I think there needs to be a distinction between an underwhelming Olympic champion versus an Olympic champion who won the Olympics underwhelmingly... I completely agree that he's the latter because the men's FS at Sochi was all kinds of disappointing, but I don't think he's the former i.e. underwhelming as a skater who happens to be the Olympic champion. The fact that he was the only Olympic champion to participate in Worlds, and the only Olympic champion to go on and even try competing in the next Grand Prix season and has an absolute nightmare of one, struggling terribly in front of the whole world and all his critics/people who thought he didn't deserve to win X or Y titles or who are resolved to say that he's always overmarked (while refusing to acknowledge any of the qualities of his skating that made him a champion in the first place)... it speaks volumes to me about his character and he is a more than worthy "Olympic champion".

So I don't agree with TSL that he's an underwhelming Olympic champion at all. He's simply just an Olympic champion with wonderful Olympic-champion-worthy qualities, that has had underwhelming skates (regardless of his injuries and how affected he may/may not have been affected by it, because if he doesn't use them as excuses then I think fans shouldn't rely on them too heavily either). This is I think why many quit after achieving the OGM, so that they can end their career on the highest note and their failures won't continually be held up to some ridiculously high standard of what the "Olympic champion" should be and this is what makes Hanyu unique and above all, what proves his strength.


I would agree with you. Although maybe I would have to watch Kovtun's LP again, I seem to remember him having transitions directly out of his quads(!), although maybe not too much else going otherwise. Or maybe that was his SP? But yes, Fernandez's program seems difficult like hell. Voronov, as entertaining and charming a character he is (I'm a fan), was really quite below the other skaters at the GPF in terms of skating/program quality. Not too sure about Mura, I admit that I don't rewatch it so I'm not all POTO-burnt out for Hanyu's lol

:agree: