Abbott in for another season?

[dorispulaski]

As everyone perhaps knows, when you put in difficult, fast spins, and loads of transitions, not to mention the distraction of trying to present to an audience artistically, it is much less easy to land those big jumps. So it is not any easier to teach Max to up his PCS than it is to teach Jason quads. It is not all the coach.

 

[karne]

So it is not any easier to teach Max to up his PCS than it is to teach Jason quads.

I would agree with this, though it does raise an interesting question: if this is so, why are people prepared to cut Jason a break on the quad, or accept an imperfect attempt, but rip and tear at Max's efforts to bring his second mark up as though it's something he should just give up on?

 

[dorispulaski]

Me, I think it is possible, but not easy, for both of these great skaters to learn the skills they lack. I expect Jason to have a quad some day. And if it is something Max wants, I expect his performance skills to improve still more. Boitano did it, why not Max? I have a lot of respect for Max; he tried hard to up his game this year. He will improve. It just isn't something that a magic coach can wave his wand and fix. But I do wish someone with costume sense would help him. For that, I do blame his coaching team.

You do have to realize that a lot of fans, me included, just love to watch Jason skate. That is not cutting him a pass. He does not have to medal to make me happy, just to skate, and to skate well. Heck, I was/am a huge fan of Rohene Ward. It was the same.

 

[noskates]

Ahhh Doris....SO agree with you. And I'm betting by next year's season Jason has that quad down to a science. Unfortunately I think the ability to entertain is a lot more difficult than the ability to complete a jump.

 

[dorispulaski]

Learning to entertain at the level Jason does it is like learning skating skills at the level Patrick Chan does it; very, very difficult. But Max doesn't need to aspire to that; learning to perform in tune with his music at the level of say Ross Miner, is achievable, and would up his PCS a lot. (BTW, I love Ross's skating)

Max needs to quash the perception that he is "just running around the ice," an opinion I heard a long-time judge voice at US Nationals, while she was sitting in the stands (not judging). And changing a first impression can be bitterly hard.

If I were his coach, I'd send him to ice dancers to work on deep edges and footwork this off-season, for a start.

 

[Mrs. P]

Also, I think other than hard-core fans, few are giving Jason a break on the quad. Josh Farris stands up on two rotated quads (though imperfect) and has two great comps and all his past struggles are forgotten and is now is seen as the future of figure skating and medal threat, just as Jason's achievements in spite of not having the jump the last two years have been.

(By the way, I like Josh too and believe he has a bright future, just that it doesn't negate Jason's potential.)

In addition, not having a quad has made people even more critical of ALL of Jason's jumps. I get it, cause he doesn't have the quad, every other jump has to be perfect, and he loses lots of points if they're UR. But the meme that he URs on all his jumps is just untrue, yet people push that perception. The most chronic UR is the 3A, but as I try to point out, that stat has improved as the season gone on. (not to mention his jumps, on the whole has improved, but again people measure that by having the quad, not how well every other jump is executed.)

As for Max, I don't think it's insurmountable for him to improve on the second mark. And I didn't think his performance was that terrible when I saw him in person last year. I can see how people think he runs around since he's speeding across the ice. The speed is what I remember most about his skating, which I don't think is a bad thing, but it would be good for him to harness it in a way that benefits the overall program, ie what Doris said earlier about timing to the music.

 

[TontoK]

Also, I think other than hard-core fans, few are giving Jason a break on the quad. Josh Farris stands up on two rotated quads (though imperfect) and has two great comps and all his past struggles are forgotten and is now is seen as the future of figure skating and medal threat, just as Jason's achievements in spite of not having the jump the last two years have been.

(By the way, I like Josh too and believe he has a bright future, just that it doesn't negate Jason's potential.)

In addition, not having a quad has made people even more critical of ALL of Jason's jumps. I get it, cause he doesn't have the quad, every other jump has to be perfect, and he loses lots of points if they're UR. But the meme that he URs on all his jumps is just untrue, yet people push that perception. The most chronic UR is the 3A, but as I try to point out, that stat has improved as the season gone on. (not to mention his jumps, on the whole has improved, but again people measure that by having the quad, not how well every other jump is executed.)

As for Max, I don't think it's insurmountable for him to improve on the second mark. And I didn't think his performance was that terrible when I saw him in person last year. I can see how people think he runs around since he's speeding across the ice. The speed is what I remember most about his skating, which I don't think is a bad thing, but it would be good for him to harness it in a way that benefits the overall program, ie what Doris said earlier about timing to the music.

So much here that I agree with, but want to focus on your comments about Max.

I really think Max has got to focus on what makes him tick. There's been some discussion on Gracie needing programs that suit her... but the same can be said for Max.

I'm a fan of Keven Reynolds, although not a "huge" fan. When you watch him skate to his programs, you know he LIKES the music, and the music fits his style. He's not trying to be someone he's not.

Max can bring deeper edges, better stretch, etc., to his programs, but it doesn't have to be to music that is just not him. I want to see smashface skating with style.

 

[louisa05]

Me, I think it is possible, but not easy, for both of these great skaters to learn the skills they lack. I expect Jason to have a quad some day. And if it is something Max wants, I expect his performance skills to improve still more. Boitano did it, why not Max? I have a lot of respect for Max; he tried hard to up his game this year. He will improve. It just isn't something that a magic coach can wave his wand and fix. But I do wish someone with costume sense would help him. For that, I do blame his coaching team.

You do have to realize that a lot of fans, me included, just love to watch Jason skate. That is not cutting him a pass. He does not have to medal to make me happy, just to skate, and to skate well. Heck, I was/am a huge fan of Rohene Ward. It was the same.

Coach could have waved a wand and said "nope, no Footloose. Not doing it. It is horrible."

Just saying. That may have been the worst program I have ever seen. And I don't even have a problem with the song. I'm an 80s child. I kind of like the song.

 

[Sandpiper]

@Mrs. P
While Jason doesn't underrotate all his jumps, the fact that he underrotates any is a problem. Pretty much all the top men do not underrotate triple axels; the only time they underrotate anything is on the second jump of a combination, if the landing of the first jump is bad and they can only eek out the second. Coupled with Jason's lack of a quad, 3A troubles, and low jumps in general (again, by the standards of the men's field)... it just gives off an impression of "weak jumper."

Though yes, we shouldn't hype Josh as a jumping machine either--he has a quad but hasn't landed it well, and his 3-3s and triples aren't incredibly high or impressive. He does have one of the best 3As in the business though, which gives a good impression about his jumping as a whole.

Not saying I disagree with you on anything... just pointing out the "weak jumper" label would be stuck on any male skater with Jason's problems, fair or not. That doesn't make the rest of his skating bad, of course--not for me, at least.

Also, I'd rather watch Max run around the rink all day than Ross Miner (whose performances I forget the moment they're over), but what do I know...

 

[noskates]

To me Ross Miner is very boring to watch - and has been since he was in Juniors. There just isn't any personality there. Max on the other hand at least has the big jumps. But Good Lord the hair this year - what was that all about? He has a very long torso and short muscular legs and those tight pants just are not attractive. I agree that spending time with ice dancers (Tanith Belbin perhaps? Charlie White?) would be a big benefit. To me he figure skates like a hockey player. Very athletic! I do think with the right choreographer his scores would go up. He certainly has the skill.

As for Kevin Reynolds, he has stated several times that he doesn't even listen to his music so not sure why anyone would think he likes it or skates to it.

It's funny to read people criticizing Jason. His skating has improved so much from last year and yet he wins Nationals and all of a sudden he has big problems....mostly because he doesn't have a consistent quad. He didn't fall on it at 4Cs...he just underrotated it and landed on 2 feet. I've seen worse. People are SOOOOOO quick to criticize those who have medaled and equally quick to laud those who haven't. But that's the internet for you.......

 

[Mrs. P]

@Mrs. P
While Jason doesn't underrotate all his jumps, the fact that he underrotates any is a problem. Pretty much all the top men do not underrotate triple axels; the only time they underrotate anything is on the second jump of a combination, if the landing of the first jump is bad and they can only eek out the second. Coupled with Jason's lack of a quad, 3A troubles, and low jumps in general (again, by the standards of the men's field)... it just gives off an impression of "weak jumper."

Though yes, we shouldn't hype Josh as a jumping machine either--he has a quad but hasn't landed it well, and his 3-3s and triples aren't incredibly high or impressive. He does have one of the best 3As in the business though, which gives a good impression about his jumping as a whole.

Not saying I disagree with you on anything... just pointing out the "weak jumper" label would be stuck on any male skater with Jason's problems, fair or not. That doesn't make the rest of his skating bad, of course--not for me, at least.

Also, I'd rather watch Max run around the rink all day than Ross Miner (whose performances I forget the moment they're over), but what do I know...

Right. I just made the point saying that I don't think anyone is giving Jason a pass on his jumps.

If I had more time, I'd look at the 3A consistency of his competitors. I think people would be surprise to find that their 3As have problems (popping, stepouts, rough landings) as well. But people chalk that up to having a quad. A lot of the other men are prone to popping jumps and other mistakes, which is why Jason even has a shot at catching up to them, 3A < and all. 4CC was the rare competition where the medalists and even the top 5 stood up on nearly every jump (Rostelecom Cup also had a similar quality). Unfortunately, Jason happened to be in both competitions.

Despite the jumps Jason's TES has improved over the season. He started at 67 something at Nebelhorn (in September) with all those UR, got up to 72 at Skate America, broke 80 at Rostelecom and went up to 84 at 4CC. And he actually left some silly points on the table, a lost level on a spin and UR on 3Z, which is actually one of his more consistent jumps. He actually lost 3 points in BV. He would have been pushing 90. Thank about that. He was almost at 90 TES without a single quad.

Josh does have an excellent 3A and I do think, on the whole, he's been better than Jason in that area.

I'm a big Ross fan. I do feel he's underrated, but again, that's just my opinion. I think it's a style thing -- you either like it or you don't. I see subtle beauty and class. Others see complete boredom. A major case of YMMV.

Back to Jeremy --- since he's the subject of this thread. I can't help but wonder how his 2012 and 2010 FS programs would have fared in 2015. It's worth noting that Jeremy's national winning 2010 FS is actually lower than either Jason or Adam's at this year's nationals despite having a nicely executed quad. Of course in 2010 the quad was worth much fewer points, so that's one fact for the difference, but I think as the case internationally, judges have been more generous on PCS compared to past seasons.

I think Jeremy was at his peak in 2009-2010 and it's really sad, to me, he wasn't able to fully make the most of that back then.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

4CC was the rare competition where the medalists and even the top 5 stood up on nearly every jump (Rostelecom Cup also had a similar quality). Unfortunately, Jason happened to be in both .

Maybe Jason's charisma is rubbing off on others backstage :think:

The opposite effect of Menshov's voodoo curse.

 

[snowflake]

I feel sad if nationals was the last time I saw Jeremy compete, but I don't read the article like Jeremy is in for another season. Hope to see him happy in Kiss&Cry in the future as coach and/or choreographer. Love it to be along with Yuka

 

[Mrs. P]

Maybe Jason's charisma is rubbing off on others backstage :think:

The opposite effect of Menshov's voodoo curse.

Jason does have an infectious enthusiasm that doesn't disappear even if the result isn't ideal. I think Jason, like any other skater -- and contrary to what some may think -- truly wants to measure up to excellent skates, not a sloppy competition, even of the latter is more beneficial to him as a relatively consistent skater.

And with the "unfortunately," I should clarify doesn't mean I didn't like that they were good competitions. I mean unfortunately int he context of where Jason's skates fell in the ranking.

I feel sad if nationals was the last time I saw Jeremy compete, but I don't read the article like Jeremy is in for another season. Hope to see him happy in Kiss&Cry in the future as coach and/or choreographer. Love it to be along with Yuka

Trying to get back on topic!

I think you can also read that article that Jeremy wants to be defined by other things than the fact he doesn't have a World or (individual) Olympic medal when it comes to his skating career. I think that can be done. Yao Bin finished last in pairs in 1984 but used that experience to basically build an entire Chinese pairs empire. Rohene Ward may have never been able to rise to the top as a competitive skater, but he is making headway as a choreographer and a coach. Becky Bereswell may not have made a name nationally, but she has an excellent gig skating as the most popular Disney character.

I'd be interested to see what Jeremy's choreography looks like for other skaters.

 

[StitchMonkey]

Maybe Jason's charisma is rubbing off on others backstage :think:

The opposite effect of Menshov's voodoo curse.

I have noticed that too, Jason does seem to end up at the best competitions, both Rostelecom and 4CCs, but also US Nationals were a damn good shows. Maybe they get a fire under them to not loose to the no quad skater. Who knows, but it does seem like Jason Brown = A game skating!

And I regret that Max invested so much emotion and energy and desperation into getting that third spot back - because he never wanted to feel like that again - and ended up being left at home again.

Joshua is on an upward trend in form, at least. Jason had his best LP yet at 4CCs. They are the only hope for the three spots.

Good, keep saying stuff like that. I think Adam thrives on the drama of proving catty comments wrong. The more we can feed him with stuff like that, the more he will explode. The more we give up on him, the more he wants to prove us all wrong. Some skaters do well with positive cheerleaders, Adam should just have drag queens follow him around reading him instead.

 

[jwren]

Jason does have an infectious enthusiasm that doesn't disappear even if the result isn't ideal. I think Jason, like any other skater -- and contrary to what some may think -- truly wants to measure up to excellent skates, not a sloppy competition, even of the latter is more beneficial to him as a relatively consistent skater.

And with the "unfortunately," I should clarify doesn't mean I didn't like that they were good competitions. I mean unfortunately int he context of where Jason's skates fell in the ranking.



Trying to get back on topic!

I think you can also read that article that Jeremy wants to be defined by other things than the fact he doesn't have a World or (individual) Olympic medal when it comes to his skating career. I think that can be done. Yao Bin finished last in pairs in 1984 but used that experience to basically build an entire Chinese pairs empire. Rohene Ward may have never been able to rise to the top as a competitive skater, but he is making headway as a choreographer and a coach. Becky Bereswell may not have made a name nationally, but she has an excellent gig skating as the most popular Disney character.

I'd be interested to see what Jeremy's choreography looks like for other skaters.

ITA. I've enjoyed Jeremy's skating for years, but my favorite things about him - his artistry and musicality - are things he can pass on to a new generation of skaters as a choreographer and/or coach. I'd love to see him make a name for himself as a choreographer, and maybe find himself at the Olympics again in that capacity!

 

[karne]

Maybe Jeremy could choreograph for Max! A new challenge for both of them.

 

[OS]

Wow Abbott is continuing for real?!

Hmmm... Okay ~ I know I am going to be in a world of pain, but I some how just love it and look forward to it. Jeremy must be my fav S&M skater (saddest & mournful / sadist & mental) next to Mirai.

 

[el henry]

Me, I think it is possible, but not easy, for both of these great skaters to learn the skills they lack. I expect Jason to have a quad some day. And if it is something Max wants, I expect his performance skills to improve still more. Boitano did it, why not Max? I have a lot of respect for Max; he tried hard to up his game this year. He will improve. It just isn't something that a magic coach can wave his wand and fix. But I do wish someone with costume sense would help him. For that, I do blame his coaching team.

You do have to realize that a lot of fans, me included, just love to watch Jason skate. That is not cutting him a pass. He does not have to medal to make me happy, just to skate, and to skate well. Heck, I was/am a huge fan of Rohene Ward. It was the same.

^^^This.

I also want the best for Jeremy. I'm just not certain that Jeremy knows what that is right now. Choreography seems like an excellent idea, and maybe if he did have show gigs, he would display consistency.

 

[ice coverage]

... I agree that spending time with ice dancers (Tanith Belbin perhaps? Charlie White?) would be a big benefit. To me he figure skates like a hockey player. Very athletic! I do think with the right choreographer his scores would go up. He certainly has the skill.......

The good news is that Max spends time with his choreographer Camerlengo when possible.
And Max has worked with Christopher Dean in the past.
Plus Max has taken ballet and ballroom classes off ice, worked with Kathy Johnson, etc. He clearly is making an effort to improve his movement.

Thx for the positive thoughts, noskates. :yay: