2015 Worlds Ladies Short Program March 26

[thom]

I'm at work so I can't really do much more than take little peeks at this thread. Thanks for all of your insight people! Can someone tell me what happened to Brooklee Han? Oh, and any vids of Joshi's spirit fingers?

 

[beki]

Gonna step in and say she doesn't have the tiniest bit of beauty =/= there wasn't the tiniest bit of beauty.

Yes, thanks! Her skating, not her physical appearance! (This is Jeff Buttle's opinion, not my own.)

 

[rain]

However unlike your claim, you indeed compared Alaine and Rika by questioning about Rika's score and your impression on Rika's performance here.

No, I did not.

Therefore, I showed you the example to compare Alaine's score at 4CC with the World's score. Since you're complaining about Rika's score by saying "judge's love for her" which I disagree because of her lower PCS even than Zijun's, I also think Alaine's PCS should not be higher than Rika's since Rika's jumps were much cleaner than Alaines. They both tend to UR but Rika has more consistency on FS and less URs. The competition is not just for SP, but SP and FS altogether.

Not to mention, keep in mind that Rika is almost in the same position as Alaine. This is their first senior year, but Rika beat Alaine at not only Rostelecome but also at 4CC, and got a higher ranking than Alaine in GP series. Therefore, Rika proceeded to GPF even though it was a substitute for Gracie. That is hardly a reputation as they are building their own career step by step. Rika's PCS is lower than Zijun because of her not pretty postures, but PCS also reflect the jump qualities and their flows. Once Alaine wobbles her required jumps, her PCS would be reflected as well. She did not outperform the 4CC SP, but received a better scores, so I think her SP score at Worlds is generous. Ashley, Anna and Gracie were overscored for sure, but that was not my point in my previous post. The supposition that Alaine's performing in a later group is no use since the starting order and allotted group are decided by their World ranking which reflect their results in international competitions. If Alaine did good, she would get assigned to the last two groups, which is not in reality.

No, again, you are the only one comparing these two skaters. Just because I mentioned the two skaters in the same post does not mean I was comparing them. Once again, since you seem to have missed my point, I compared Chartrand, Gold and Pogorilaya's scores. Hongo had nothing to do with that discussion. And while we're at it, it's really just your opinion that she did not outperform her SP as 4CC. I would dispute that. I'm perfectly aware of how world ranking and start orders work. My complaint is an old one, because the situation persists. Those going early, unless there's some particular reason to see them as contenders, tend to get marked lower, especially in PCS, than those who go later.

 

[begin]

Yes, thanks! Her skating, not her physical appearance! (This is Jeff Buttle's opinion, not my own.)

More like, what was performed on the ice. He's not saying her skating is inherently ugly.

 

[SkateToronto]

Miyahara's "fully rotated jumps" delusion reminds me of Polinas "perfect flip techinque" delusion. Except Polina rightfully gets dinged for hers. :sarcasm:

How does Miyahara have a 'fully rotated jumps delusion'. Can you post a link to her comments about her jumps?

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

More like, what was performed on the ice. He's not saying her skating is inherently ugly.

That's like going up to somebody and saying "You're not beautiful... I'm not saying you're ugly, though... wait, what are you giving me that look?"

Obviously Buttle is referring to no ounce of beauty in her program. Which is pretty inaccurate. It's like those who say Chan is devoid of emotion.

It's hyperbole - I'm sure Buttle acknowledges that there is some beautiful aspects of Liza's program, but what he probably means is that the program lacks refinement, and aesthetics compared to other skaters. e.g. Liza's spins aren't particularly aesthetic (not that Mishin skaters are known for it)... her flying sit in particular is my least favourite, and i wish her leg was straightened.

 

[shiroKJ]

How does Miyahara have a 'fully rotated jumps delusion'. Can you post a link to her comments about her jumps?

With Miyahara its not her, its everyone else. With Polina, its just her.

Should have included that bit in the orginal comment.

 

[begin]

That's like going up to somebody and saying "You're not beautiful... I'm not saying you're ugly, though... wait, what are you giving me that look?"

Obviously Buttle is referring to no ounce of beauty in her program. Which is pretty inaccurate. It's like those who say Chan is devoid of emotion.

It's hyperbole - I'm sure Buttle acknowledges that there is some beautiful aspects of Liza's program, but what he probably means is that the program lacks refinement, and aesthetics compared to other skaters. e.g. Liza's spins aren't particularly aesthetic (not that Mishin skaters are known for it)... her flying sit in particular is my least favourite, and i wish her leg was straightened.

That comparison makes no sense. Saying a beautiful skater producing something devoid of beauty isn't a hyperbole. It's bad choreography and/or unflattering elements. I see no reason to believe JButt meant anything more than that.

 

[amc987]

I think Tuktamysheva was the deserving winner of the SP. Her 3A was well done and it was gutsy of her to do it for the first time in the Worlds SP. The rest of her jumps were excellent as usual. Her choreo and interpretation leave a lot to be desired, IMO, and I would have her around 74-75 instead of at 77+, but she was still way better than everyone else.

Radionova was more committed artistically than Tukt, but she's sloppy and a bit juniorish in terms of her performance quality. She also lacks some speed.

Miyahara was good. She's very precise but I feel very empty when I watch her skate. The jumps looked rotated to me (in that they were within 1/4 turn), but I don't have the best eye for pre-rotation. I would've had Murakami, who is less precise but much more musical, ahead here. Very happy that Kanako skated so well here since she's been struggling for about a year now. Hongo was good but forgettable.

The Americans: JFC. I don't know what Gracie's deal is but she needs a sports psychologist because the repeated discrepancy between her practice level and her competition level is becoming alarming. I think her components were a bit high for what she did. Ashley looked very slow and nervous as well. And I can't believe she two-footed/UR'd the flip in addition to the fall. Both of them are lucky to be where they are given how poorly they did today. Polina was fine. She lips. She's a bit slow and the second half of her program is really monotonous, but I think she did as well as she has all season. I really hope they all pull it together for the long and manage to retain 3 spots for Boston. The podium seems all but unattainable, which is really unfortunate because Ashley and Gracie had a strong opportunity to be in the top 3 here.

 

[wonderlen3000]

Liza was impressive. She skates like a queen and with so much confident, like 'hey everyone look at me'. Rad was clean, but a little cautious compare to Euro. Glad to see Kanako skates clean and i hope she gets a bronze medal. Sotoko was good in everything, except the tiny jumps =( .. unless she improves on that, she will not be able to challanges the russian ladies.

Ashley skates so cautious and slow going into the Lutz. She has no speed in and out of it, and doing the 3T was a bad call.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Agreed about Gracie and Wagner. I don't care how slow/wooden/whatever people say Mae is... she went clean with a 3-3... and under fair judging, she would have been ahead of both. Arguably Chartrand too - who had more attack than Gold and jumped better than Wagner.

Wagner erred on all 3 jumping passes... and shouldn't even be in the final 2 groups. And it's a travesty that Gold is less than a point behind Edmunds. Their PCS scores were a joke. I want them to do well, but I want them to be judged fairly too.

Add Pogo as well to that list... very lucky to be 9th with a 60.50 after a fall and a footwork stumble.

 

[kwanatic]

I watched the entirety of the ladies competition last night (it was like running a marathon) and it definitely had it's ups and downs.

Liza T: Wow! I mean, wow. That 3A was superb! After she hit it I could see the focus on her face as she zeroed in for her next two passes. I thought she gave a lot of energy and personality to her footwork as well. I don't particularly care for her program and she's not that great of a skater IMO...but she is one of the best technicians this sport has seen in a long time. So much respect for her. I do think her PCS were a bit too high (mid 8s on almost everything?) but she's rightfully well in the lead. As long as she doesn't have a total and complete meltdown in the FS, this title is hers easily.

Elena: She didn't seem as free and easy as usual but knowing she was sick explains that. To have a fever and nail that program under that kind of pressure is amazeballs. Her focus and mental toughness (along with Liza T's) should be bottled and sold. So proud of Elena for fighting it out and turning in a superb performance even while feeling under the weather. Hopefully she'll feel better for the FS tomorrow and nail it again (for the 7th time). As long as she does that, silver is hers.

Satoko: Satoko does have pre-rotation issues (they've always been there) but I suppose the callers are focusing more on the landing rotation than the pre-rotation. IDK. All of that aside, I thought she was lovely. Lovely program, wonderful spins, beautiful footwork...very nice performance. I would have had her lower though.

Kanako: Definitely the best overall performance of the night for me. That SP is gorgeous and she delivered it perfectly. Huge 3-3, 3F was mule-kicky but solid and rotated. She had the best combination of the technical and artistic for me. I do think she and Satoko's scores should be swapped. I'd have had her 3rd.

Rika: She keeps getting better. Lovely performance from her. I really like how musical her program is and she continues to improve her presentation and performance from competition to competition.

Zijun: Great to see her handle the pressure and deliver well in front of a home crowd. I definitely think she got a bit of a hometown boost here; had she URed that combo anywhere else I think they'd have dropped her some. Still, I'm happy for her. I love her style and I really hope she has a solid FS.

Polina: Solid performance from her. I wish she weren't so stubborn and would have changed her solo jump to a loop. Add the 0.70 she lost on the flip to her score and she'd have gotten at least 62.41, would have beaten Rika and would be 5th right now. Ah well. I felt her score was appropriate. If she can deliver in the FS I'm sure they will go up some.

Gracie: Overscored IMO, as always. I do feel sorry for her having to follow yet another monster skate/score but she's gotta learn how to forget about that and just skate. I just...I don't know what else to say other than scoring over 60 points for that is criminal. She should have been closer to Ashley's score.

Anna: Ouch. That fall was one of the worse of the night but kudos to her for rebounding immediately and hitting that 2A. Hopefully she'll have a stronger FS.

Alaine: As gritty and determined as ever. It was nice to see her have the first really solid skate of the night. She struggles with URs sometimes so we'll have to see if she can pull up in the FS.

Ashley: Geez. That was a disaster on all fronts. Yay, no edge call on the lutz but man, two URs and a fall. I expected the judges to place her slightly higher than she did but with two URs, I guess that's fair. Still, if Gracie got 60 points for that mess, I feel as though Ashley deserved that much. The good news is Ashley is probably beyond pissed which means she'll come out guns blazing in the FS...I hope. I still think she can pull up but we'll have to see. She's in a mighty deep hole right now.


Great skating from the top 6. This title is already Liza's as far as I'm concerned. I hope Elena feels better and can hold on for 2nd. I'd like to see one of the Japanese ladies land in 3rd but I'd also like to see Ashley pull a shocker and leapfrog from 11th to 3rd...it's a long shot but it could happen.

 

[Sackie]

Weird thing is that the caller was harder on under rotations than edge calls. We only had one actual edge call - the last place skater and 2 not clear edge calls. Yet all season there have been a number of edge calls at events. Just so nice that all these ladies could correct their edges before worlds!

Also just watched Gold and Daleman back to back on you tube and did not see a big difference between the two skates. Yet Gold is in the top 10 and Daleman is back in 21st place. Just goes to show the difference between being a new comer and one of the judges favs.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Weird thing is that the caller was harder on under rotations than edge calls. We only had one actual edge call - the last place skater and 2 not clear edge calls. Yet all season there have been a number of edge calls at events. Just so nice that all these ladies could correct their edges before worlds!

Also just watched Gold and Daleman back to back on you tube and did not see a big difference between the two skates. Yet Gold is in the top 10 and Daleman is back in 21st place. Just goes to show the difference between being a new comer and one of the judges favs.

Again, most skaters avoided the jump that gives them edge problems. Only 4 skaters of the entire field attempted both a lutz and a flip (I predicted as such... however, I'm impressed with the number of lutz attempts).

 

[gotoschool]

If 3A's are your favourite jump, you would legitimately acknowledge that Liza's triple axel was superior to many of Mao's axels (even with your blatant bias).

It actually took off the toe unlike Mao's skid take off, it got more height than Mao's (instead of depending on tight rotation), it actually gets distance, unlike Mao's which is up and down, and the rotation is unquestionable, unlike Mao's, Liza's axel (which the landing edge wasn't the most solid) had more flow on the runout than Mao's. Mao certainly is the queen of 3A, in terms of consistency, but I think the majority of us here acknowledge Liza's 3A was better.

And what "little bit more" were you expecting? She landed it and it was a strong jump. If you want to see more women to do 3A attempts why do you trivialize what was very obviously a strong triple axel by Liza?

One poster asked politely if we could focus on the skaters in the competition, instead this is an extensive technical analysis of one not competing, Mao, explaining why her triple axels are allegedly "inferior." It just seems to be a reaction against negative posts made by one poster, which I agree were a bit dismissive of Liza's achievement. But why should Mao undergo such extensive criticism because of this poster's comments? Most Mao fans have been complimentary and congratulated Liza on her achievement. Height would have to be measured. Many have said Mao's are higher, many have said Liza's is higher. Since you have focused on the negatives, I will mention the positives. Many have mentioned the great aesthetic quality of Mao's triple axels, especially beautiful symmetrical spiral and balletic movement in and out of the jump with extensive transitions on exit. I have also heard posters say that they like Mao's take off, air position, landing and posture better. I like Mao's better, but I think everyone should have their own opinion.

Interesting fact about Mao's allegedly "inferior" triple axel. In the SP at Worlds, Mao's triple axel got 10.30 points, while Liza's got 10 points. The score that the judges gave Mao for her triple axel in the Worlds LP was originally an excellent 10.36 before it was suspricously downgraded to around 6 points by the tech crew, a call that was widely criticized and contradicted the assessment of the judges who gave it high GOE. So for those speaking with such assurance that Mao's triple axels are "inferior," and "urd," and I will admit there have been others, all one needs to do is look at the evaluation of the triple axel the judges gave her last two in competitions.

 

[Alba]

Rhetorical or no?

I still don't get it, sorry. Ounce mean rhetorical?

 

[begin]

I still don't get it, sorry. Ounce mean rhetorical?

I'm sorry, I was confused if you were being rhetorical. An ounce is a unit of measure (ie. 16 fl ounces of water).

 

[shiroKJ]

I still don't get it, sorry. Ounce mean rhetorical?

Ounce is just an imperial unit of measurement. Its commonly used in sayings, like when they're talking in small quantities.

"Not an ounce of doubt" can equate to "Not a bit of doubt"

 

[Alba]

It is a unit of measurement in the English system, 16 oz = one pound. It can refer to weight or liquid volume. But the saying means she doesn't have even the tiniest bit (of beauty).

Oh thank you. Now I understand.
Well, I think he is exaggerating A LOT.

 

[yyyskate]

CBC broadcast started.
saw lots of the greats in the intro
Yuna's jumping face, Mao's spin smile, Witt, Ito........ and Liza' wink so good