Chan v. Hanyu: 2015-16

[4everchan]

exactly... yuzu could do 4S, 3A and 4T +combo in the SP some skaters do such things already... I do however think that for skaters with only one quad are not encouraged to do the combo at the end of the quad but with another triple jump.

I think that's what people are complaining about.

There IS a reward for quad-triple for Hanyu: significantly higher base value in SP. The fact that he moved his quad to the second half of the program in SP and that he'll be doing 4T-2T in the second half of LP all point to him planning to add another quad in SP. If that happens his SP combo is most likely going to be 4T-3T. Wouldn't it be interesting to see how he'd deal with that. It's such a shame that he's planning to retire at 23, who knows what else he would feel compelled to squeeze into his programs in his drive to up his tech every season.



There are a few juniors who do that combo smoothly and don't look like they've made a mistake and stumbled over something, but I also think that Yuzu's best, especially last season when that combo was impressively choreographed with perfect synchrony with music and Yuzu jumped it perfectly in the note. :yes:

 

[MaxSwagg]

There IS a reward for quad-triple for Hanyu: significantly higher base value in SP. The fact that he moved his quad to the second half of the program in SP and that he'll be doing 4T-2T in the second half of LP all point to him planning to add another quad in SP. If that happens his SP combo is most likely going to be 4T-3T. Wouldn't it be interesting to see how he'd deal with that. It's such a shame that he's planning to retire at 23, who knows what else he would feel compelled to squeeze into his programs in his drive to up his tech every season.



There are a few juniors who do that combo smoothly and don't look like they've made a mistake and stumbled over something, but I also think that Yuzu's best, especially last season when that combo was impressively choreographed with perfect synchrony with music and Yuzu jumped it perfectly in the note. :yes:

Well, he's not "planning" to retire. He clarified that if he's not satisfied with his performances in Pyeongchang, he may continue.

 

[Sorrento]

Well, he's not "planning" to retire. He clarified that if he's not satisfied with his performances in Pyeongchang, he may continue.

That basically means "if he gets a gold medal- then he retires" because that was his plan. And to be honest- he's not getting younger and he's pretty traumatized already so if he will be forced (by the forces of figure skating nature of course) to continue because he has always wanted to be twice Olympic champion then I have no idea what kind of stresses his admirers can come through. I personally do not wish him to struggle through traumas like Plushy or other veterans do. And yes, at the age of 25 (even 23 in his case) they are veterans because of the number of traumas they get. Sorry for this sad wording. But this is how I see things for him from this perspective.

 

[MaxSwagg]

That basically means "if he gets a gold medal- then he retires" because that was his plan. And to be honest- he's not getting younger and he's pretty traumatized already so if he will be forced (by the forces of figure skating nature of course) to continue because he has always wanted to be twice Olympic champion then I have no idea what kind of stresses his admirers can come through. I personally do not wish him to struggle through traumas like Plushy or other veterans do. And yes, at the age of 25 (even 23 in his case) they are veterans because of the number of traumas they get. Sorry for this sad wording. But this is how I see things for him from this perspective.

He said:

“I was very surprised to learn that [my remarks] were regarded as a kind of retirement statement,” Hanyu said, according to the Yomiuri Shimbun. “I just mentioned a future plan I envisioned when I was a child. I guess I failed to give a proper explanation. I haven’t decided what I will do after the Pyeongchang Games.

“In reality, I’m not sure what I will think until the moment actually arrives. If I’m dissatisfied after the Pyeongchang Games, I’ll continue skating until I become satisfied. It’s not something concrete.”

http://olympics.nbcsports.com/tag/yuzuru-hanyu/

 

[Sorrento]

He said:

Yeah, I know what he said. Those calming messages to the fanbase. I don't buy it.

 

[MaxSwagg]

Yeah, I know what he said. Those calming messages to the fanbase. I don't buy it.

 

[Rissa]

exactly... yuzu could do 4S, 3A and 4T +combo in the SP some skaters do such things already... I do however think that for skaters with only one quad are not encouraged to do the combo at the end of the quad but with another triple jump.

I think that's what people are complaining about.

Well, for skaters with only 1 quad threre's no payoff (actually, it could reduce their base value because 4-3 combo would be most likely jumped at the begining of the program and the 3-3 combo could be put in the second half and therefore the second triple would get the 10% bonus), but even the ones with 2 don't always choose to do 2 in the SP. But there are quite a number men with 2 or more quads now, though, and they are all progressing. You never know who will be the threat. Denis and Javi have proven capable of beating Yuzuru if he falters. In two seasons they, especially Denis, might be capable of beating him even if he doesn't particularly falter... unless Yuzu progresses too. Which he seems to be doing.

Plus there's Boyang Jin with his 3 different quads coming up... Imagine having to compete against an SP consisting of 4T-4T, 4Lz and 3A and a 5 quad LP...

 

[4everchan]

Well, for skaters with only 1 quad threre's no payoff (actually, it could reduce their base value because 4-3 combo would be most likely jumped at the begining of the program and the 3-3 combo could be put in the second half and therefore the second triple would get the 10% bonus), but even the ones with 2 don't always choose to do 2 in the SP. But there are quite a number men with 2 or more quads now, though, and they are all progressing. You never know who will be the threat. Denis and Javi have proven capable of beating Yuzuru if he falters. In two seasons they, especially Denis, might be capable of beating him even if he doesn't particularly falter... unless Yuzu progresses too. Which he seems to be doing.

Plus there's Boyang Jin with his 3 different quads coming up... Imagine having to compete against an SP consisting of 4T-4T, 4Lz and 3A and a 5 quad LP...

4t-4t? i'll believe it when i see it

 

[Rissa]

4t-4t? i'll believe it when i see it

Well, he can do 4Lz-3T, he could learn 4T4T!

 

[4everchan]

i'm no expert, but i don't think i will witness this from my lifetime… progress in sport takes forever…. especially that kind.. i saw (on tv)the first quad toe in 1988 (browning)… and still, 27 years later… very few skaters are able to do it… only a handful regularly manage 4T-3T…. so yeah… not in my lifetime i fear

Well, he can do 4Lz-3T, he could learn 4T4T!

 

[noskates]

I don't think anybody is going to know how they're going to do this year until they start doing it. I guess it's fun to speculate and throw statistics out there but I'm in the "wait and see" camp.

 

[4everchan]

you're not the only one in the meantime, we are just enjoying banter

I don't think anybody is going to know how they're going to do this year until they start doing it. I guess it's fun to speculate and throw statistics out there but I'm in the "wait and see" camp.

 

[tsuyoboogie]

4t-4t? i'll believe it when i see it

Pretty sure you've seen this before but just in case

Mura's 4T-4T attempt at around 1:14.

Sure it's UR, but still... Even if Mura never fully rotates this combo I'm quite confident someone like Boyang could. Of course I'm new to the sport so what do I know.

Sorry, back to thread related posts~

 

[4everchan]

hehe.. i vaguely remember this… and i vaguely remember michael weiss 4Lz attempts about 15 years ago

Pretty sure you've seen this before but just in case

Mura's 4T-4T attempt at around 1:14.

Sure it's UR, but still... Even if Mura never fully rotates this combo I'm quite confident someone like Boyang could. Of course I'm new to the sport so what do I know.

Sorry, back to thread related posts~

 

[tsuyoboogie]

hehe.. i vaguely remember this… and i vaguely remember michael weiss 4Lz attempts about 15 years ago

Great! I highly anticipate seeing a fully rotated 4T-4T in around 2029. ...I'm patient~

 

[4everchan]

Great! I highly anticipate seeing a fully rotated 4T-4T in around 2029. ...I'm patient~

 

[Skater Boy]

Well, he's not "planning" to retire. He clarified that if he's not satisfied with his performances in Pyeongchang, he may continue.

I have mixed feelings. One is the pure competitive attitude of the let the best person win; is a dog eat dog world, out for yourself, let the fittest survive and then there is this heartfelt side that likes to see spreading the wealth. He is good and a hard worker etc but then so are a lot of other skaters. He kind of got a bit lucky as life is about timing a year later and Fernandez had Oly gold and a year earlier or two Chan. I kind of hope someone like Ngyuen or Brown or Chan or Fernandez takes oly gold. But I really have a feeling Hanyu will survive he next few years and be the fave. And he is technically far superior as to difficulty at least than Chan who cannot compete. I do think Chan is undermarked comparatively to Hanyu in pcs but with Hanyus oly gold and world medals he will be marked high. One thing I do wonder if Hanyu does not develop stylistically he may not be as marketable - there is something youngish still about him and his skating - though well done - pooh bear, the Weirish costumes and a certain animae androngynous look about him that may limit him as he gets older - it works now though that is for sure. I hope like all skaters the judges can look at the skating first though.

 

[Interspectator]

I have mixed feelings. One is the pure competitive attitude of the let the best person win; is a dog eat dog world, out for yourself, let the fittest survive and then there is this heartfelt side that likes to see spreading the wealth. He is good and a hard worker etc but then so are a lot of other skaters. He kind of got a bit lucky as life is about timing a year later and Fernandez had Oly gold and a year earlier or two Chan. I kind of hope someone like Ngyuen or Brown or Chan or Fernandez takes oly gold. But I really have a feeling Hanyu will survive he next few years and be the fave. And he is technically far superior as to difficulty at least than Chan who cannot compete. I do think Chan is undermarked comparatively to Hanyu in pcs but with Hanyus oly gold and world medals he will be marked high. One thing I do wonder if Hanyu does not develop stylistically he may not be as marketable - there is something youngish still about him and his skating - though well done - pooh bear, the Weirish costumes and a certain animae androngynous look about him that may limit him as he gets older - it works now though that is for sure. I hope like all skaters the judges can look at the skating first though.

Skaters get lucky, of course, but the really successful ones make their own luck. His first World Medal? -Sprained ankle, what bad luck! Didn't matter, he made it happen and didn't make excuses.
His first GPF medal? Flu and fever, didn't complain, though he had to withdraw from the Gala. These are just two examples but there are many more. Yuzu really does take every tiny opportunity and maximizes it as much as possible. How can a person get lucky so many times? -By never letting on opportunity pass without being ready to catch it.

As for style, it is exactly what I like about Yuzu. He HAS style; a gracefulness that is coupled with intensity. -Though that will always be a matter of opinion. But why would or should he change his style when it is working so well for him and suits his body and look so much? He is the most marketable male skater in the world at present...I'm not exaggerating. Should he decide to wear the plain shirt and pants look that is so popular for North American Skaters?

 

[MaxSwagg]

I have mixed feelings. One is the pure competitive attitude of the let the best person win; is a dog eat dog world, out for yourself, let the fittest survive and then there is this heartfelt side that likes to see spreading the wealth. He is good and a hard worker etc but then so are a lot of other skaters. He kind of got a bit lucky as life is about timing a year later and Fernandez had Oly gold and a year earlier or two Chan. I kind of hope someone like Ngyuen or Brown or Chan or Fernandez takes oly gold. But I really have a feeling Hanyu will survive he next few years and be the fave. And he is technically far superior as to difficulty at least than Chan who cannot compete. I do think Chan is undermarked comparatively to Hanyu in pcs but with Hanyus oly gold and world medals he will be marked high. One thing I do wonder if Hanyu does not develop stylistically he may not be as marketable - there is something youngish still about him and his skating - though well done - pooh bear, the Weirish costumes and a certain animae androngynous look about him that may limit him as he gets older - it works now though that is for sure. I hope like all skaters the judges can look at the skating first though.

Timing is everything. He's one of the lucky ones, that's for sure. And I doubt his appearance will change that much. He'll still probably look 18 at 24.

 

[Layback11]

He is the most marketable male skater in the world at present...I'm not exaggerating. Should he decide to wear the plain shirt and pants look that is so popular for North American Skaters?

Naw, weird outfits have become part of his charm. Frankly, only Yuzu could do that (out of the current field)...