Chan v. Hanyu: 2015-16

[MaxSwagg]

Naw, weird outfits have become part of his charm. Frankly, only Yuzu could do that (out of the current field)...

His "boyish" charm I think is what endears him to the judges. He's kind of an ikemen? He could definitely be a JE boy.

 

[tsuyoboogie]

Skaters get lucky, of course, but the really successful ones make their own luck. His first World Medal? -Sprained ankle, what bad luck! Didn't matter, he made it happen and didn't make excuses.
His first GPF medal? Flu and fever, didn't complain, though he had to withdraw from the Gala. These are just two examples but there are many more. Yuzu really does take every tiny opportunity and maximizes it as much as possible. How can a person get lucky so many times? -By never letting on opportunity pass without being ready to catch it.

As for style, it is exactly what I like about Yuzu. He HAS style; a gracefulness that is coupled with intensity. -Though that will always be a matter of opinion. But why would or should he change his style when it is working so well for him and suits his body and look so much? He is the most marketable male skater in the world at present...I'm not exaggerating. Should he decide to wear the plain shirt and pants look that is so popular for North American Skaters?

:thumbsup:

 

[Skater Boy]

Timing is everything. He's one of the lucky ones, that's for sure. And I doubt his appearance will change that much. He'll still probably look 18 at 24.

True, but I have to say to the earlier poster who tried to make Hanyu the hard luck story well Ithin thereis a tendency on athletes to make them look like they came from great tragedy or adversity but skating in particular has a lot of blessings so to speak due to the high costs and the fact is eveyrone is injured and overcoming stuff - life. It is just because they are athletes and competitive ones that people care. I am sure we all have hard lives. I was a victim of a horrible crime and changed my name and started a new career in a new location - I would hardly say that I am hard done by or poor me. I do think Hanyu will go on to great success; especially technically but ice is slippery so who knows.

 

[Interspectator]

True, but I have to say to the earlier poster who tried to make Hanyu the hard luck story well Ithin thereis a tendency on athletes to make them look like they came from great tragedy or adversity but skating in particular has a lot of blessings so to speak due to the high costs and the fact is eveyrone is injured and overcoming stuff - life. It is just because they are athletes and competitive ones that people care. I am sure we all have hard lives. I was a victim of a horrible crime and changed my name and started a new career in a new location - I would hardly say that I am hard done by or poor me. I do think Hanyu will go on to great success; especially technically but ice is slippery so who knows.

If you were indicating my post, I want to clarify that I'm NOT trying to make Hanyu's story a 'hard luck' story...only that you seemed to indicate that he was MORE lucky than others...which I don't agree with. He has had both opportunities and adversities. He has made the most of his opportunities and has overcome his adversities. -Thus his success.
It is his attitude of never bemoaning his fate or using circumstances to cover his failures that I admire about him.

P.S. That's life...yes, and it is something to be admired in all people, not just athletes, who overcome what stands before them and reach their goals.

 

[4everchan]

carpe diem people... whatever happens, the winner always has to take his/her opportunities... whether it is illness, someone choking, judges inflating your scores, you still need to skate to a certain level to earn it...

i am not yuzu's #1... i prefer other skaters.... but he earned his wins!!! and if he wants another one in 2018... well... let's see... other people will make him work hard to get it...

 

[Marin]

carpe diem people... whatever happens, the winner always has to take his/her opportunities... whether it is illness, someone choking, judges inflating your scores, you still need to skate to a certain level to earn it...

i am not yuzu's #1... i prefer other skaters.... but he earned his wins!!! and if he wants another one in 2018... well... let's see... other people will make him work hard to get it...

Can't agree more

 

[4everchan]

hehe great.. then we agree that Javi deserved his win, and Chan deserved his too

Can't agree more

 

[Interspectator]

hehe great.. then we agree that Javi deserved his win, and Chan deserved his too

With all this talk of Hanyu VS Chan, Javi may simply confound us all and defend his World Title. It is not unthinkable...it is not even unlikely. He's right up there with Hanyu and Chan in my mind in terms of opportunity to win.

 

[4everchan]

add Denis to the list... he is due to get rewarded for the fantastic skates he has given us

With all this talk of Hanyu VS Chan, Javi may simply confound us all and defend his World Title. It is not unthinkable...it is not even unlikely. He's right up there with Hanyu and Chan in my mind in terms of opportunity to win.

 

[Interspectator]

add Denis to the list... he is due to get rewarded for the fantastic skates he has given us

I feel very lucky to be watching figure skating at this time. I do have my favorites, but the high level of competition is very exciting. It's good for the sport as a whole. --Javi vs Patrick at Japan Open, Denis vs Yuzu at Autumn Classic.
Young rivals include Shoma and Nam.
The season is starting off with a BANG.

 

[4everchan]

I feel very lucky to be watching figure skating at this time. I do have my favorityup... es, but the high level of competition is very exciting. It's good for the sport as a whole. --Javi vs Patrick at Japan Open, Denis vs Yuzu at Autumn Classic.
Young rivals include Shoma and Nam.
The season is starting off with a BANG.

this year is a good one for fans.... so many opportunities and not so much at stakes... look at NH... Balde was amazing... who would have thought? not me... i am canadian... he has never won a medal in canadian nationals but then owns NH haha it was great... so happy he took his opportunity. now.. here is something that nobody as far as I know, as talked about... didn't Yuzu land 4Loop ? why isn't he using that deadly weapon? at one point there was a rumour about chan doing 4S? was that just a rumour?

and finally, who would most likely succeed to land a 4 F? i think chan has the best 3F so i'd vote for him but after so many years, I have never heard about anyone even trying it... (4Lz has been tried for over 15 years...(michael Weiss) 4 loop was tried by lovely kevin reynolds .....

 

[Interspectator]

this year is a good one for fans.... so many opportunities and not so much at stakes... look at NH... Balde was amazing... who would have thought? not me... i am canadian... he has never won a medal in canadian nationals but then owns NH haha it was great... so happy he took his opportunity. now.. here is something that nobody as far as I know, as talked about... didn't Yuzu land 4Loop ? why isn't he using that deadly weapon? at one point there was a rumour about chan doing 4S? was that just a rumour?

and finally, who would most likely succeed to land a 4 F? i think chan has the best 3F so i'd vote for him but after so many years, I have never heard about anyone even trying it... (4Lz has been tried for over 15 years...(michael Weiss) 4 loop was tried by lovely kevin reynolds .....

Daisuke Murakami has been trying the 4F and seemed to indicate that if he was going to have a second quad it would be the 4F. (but I may be remembering wrong) there was a cilp of him landing one in practice this year.

Yuzu is not bringing out the 4Loop this season, but he loves doing it at shows. The latest ones I've seen from him have been cleanly rotated and landed well. -He may keep it for the next Olympics?

Those who are putting the difficult quads in for sure this season are Boyang with his 4lz (clean and impressive) and Alexei with his 4Lo (nearly landed/rotated) at the JGP.

 

[4everchan]

go murakami!! i put him on my power rankings… boyang is a freak but i cannot like his skating yet.. i am a chan fan because i just am in love with edges and footwork and there is no one like him….

yeah… i have seen yuzu do the 4 loop in shows… i think he should add it in now so it gets more and more stable… it actually looked better than his 4S…..

Daisuke Murakami has been trying the 4F and seemed to indicate that if he was going to have a second quad it would be the 4F. (but I may be remembering wrong) there was a cilp of him landing one in practice this year.

Yuzu is not bringing out the 4Loop this season, but he loves doing it at shows. The latest ones I've seen from him have been cleanly rotated and landed well. -He may keep it for the next Olympics?

Those who are putting the difficult quads in for sure this season are Boyang with his 4lz (clean and impressive) and Alexei with his 4Lo (nearly landed/rotated) at the JGP.

 

[matmuh]

this year is a good one for fans.... so many opportunities and not so much at stakes... look at NH... Balde was amazing... who would have thought? not me... i am canadian... he has never won a medal in canadian nationals but then owns NH haha it was great... so happy he took his opportunity. now.. here is something that nobody as far as I know, as talked about... didn't Yuzu land 4Loop ? why isn't he using that deadly weapon? at one point there was a rumour about chan doing 4S? was that just a rumour?

and finally, who would most likely succeed to land a 4 F? i think chan has the best 3F so i'd vote for him but after so many years, I have never heard about anyone even trying it... (4Lz has been tried for over 15 years...(michael Weiss) 4 loop was tried by lovely kevin reynolds .....

i think Michal has great and huge 3F but he is The Potato King, you never know what to expect from him :hopelessness:

 

[4everchan]

yeah,i don't count on him

i wonder why midori ito didn't try quads or did she? haha

i think Michal has great and huge 3F but he is The Potato King, you never know what to expect from him :hopelessness:

 

[kiches]

I created another view/chart of Chan and Hanyu's average jump GOE and scores (I should try and import Fernandez and Ten when I get the time).

It's pretty interesting stuff, and going back to what Jenny and Dave were discussing in their video you can really see that Hanyu's 3A combos in the second half of his free are his biggest point getters. Before when his second second half 3A combo was a 3A+2T he averaged 12.15 pts, by changing it to a 3A-1L-3S in the second half he averaged 16.31 pts - a nearly 4 pt difference. That combo just barely edges out Chan's average of 16.12 pts on his first half 4T-3T. It's like Kurt Browning says, he practically turns his 3A's into quads by doing them in the second half and getting high GOE on them.

If we compare an easier combo, the 3Lz+3T, Chan has a slight higher average GOE but Hanyu on average scores higher for the same combo since it's usually placed in the second half of the SP. There's a lot of interesting things to compare, but I think one of the most obvious things is that Hanyu's program construction and layout is very smart and really capitalizes on his strengths and abilities.

 

[Interspectator]

I created another view/chart of Chan and Hanyu's average jump GOE and scores (I should try and import Fernandez and Ten when I get the time).

It's pretty interesting stuff, and going back to what Jenny and Dave were discussing in their video you can really see that Hanyu's 3A combos in the second half of his free are his biggest point getters. Before when his second second half 3A combo was a 3A+2T he averaged 12.15 pts, by changing it to a 3A-1L-3S in the second half he averaged 16.31 pts - a nearly 4 pt difference. That combo just barely edges out Chan's average of 16.12 pts on his first half 4T-3T. It's like Kurt Browning says, he practically turns his 3A's into quads by doing them in the second half and getting high GOE on them.

If we compare an easier combo, the 3Lz+3T, Chan has a slight higher average GOE but Hanyu on average scores higher for the same combo since it's usually placed in the second half of the SP. There's a lot of interesting things to compare, but I think one of the most obvious things is that Hanyu's program construction and layout is very smart and really capitalizes on his strengths and abilities.

This chart is much easier to follow. Good Job!

 

[Li'Kitsu]

I created another view/chart of Chan and Hanyu's average jump GOE and scores (I should try and import Fernandez and Ten when I get the time).

Thanks very much for this (for the previous chart too)

I'm pretty surprised that Hanyu here is getting better GOE for his solo 4T on average - probably because Chan has 2 and tends to turn the successful 4T into the combo (the first one if it's landed well enough, and if not, than the 2nd). It's similar to DTen, who basically lands half of his 4T in the LP - but if you look through the protocols, he usually has a well done 4T-3T and an unsuccessful single 4T, because if he nails the 4T he can add a 3T with relatively little difficulty.
It's still surprising though that Chans combined number of landed 4Ts (4T + 4T3T = 25+21=46) isn't that much higher than Hanyu completed 4Ts (36), I expected that to be different. But they started going for quads in the same season actually :shocked:

 

[alia jackson]

Yuzuru did crazy sequences in gala jump battle examples: 4T+3A (The Ice 2011), 4T+3A+3A (GPF 2013), 4Lo+3A (WTT 2015).

Are 4T-3A, 4T-1Lo-3A, 4Lo+3A, 4Lo-1Lo-3A allowed in competition?

 

[seabm7]

Yuzuru did crazy sequences in gala jump battle examples: 4T+3A (The Ice 2011), 4T+3A+3A (GPF 2013), 4Lo+3A (WTT 2015).

Are 4T-3A, 4T-1Lo-3A, 4Lo+3A, 4Lo-1Lo-3A allowed in competition?

All of them are allowed. At the same time, all of them are considered as a sequence, so the point will be 80% of the sum of the higher two jump ones. Not worth trying in a competition.