Chan v. Hanyu: 2015-16

[Skater Boy]

there's another thread for that topic... power rankings men... here we are only or mostly talking about chan vs hanyu... hence the name of the thread ... i don't think we are forgetting the others... we are just entertaining this rivalry

Well no actually we are straying off sometimes and not focussing on the two but WHATEVER; we all are guilty of that lol although I cold be interpretation. In comparing the two Hanyu has far more arsenal and points on paper - he does stuff in the second half Chan can only dream off. Chan has one less quad, one less triple axel and not as difficult layout and thus less bonus points than Hanyu. Hanyu is OGM and has been skating unlike Chan (who has done shows but not competitively). Chan is a few pounds light so we will see if this helps his jumps; I do think Hanyu has another advantage over Chan - a great coach - technically and artistically with a great reputation which doesn't hurt. Kathy Johnson isn't even the American gymnast who won a oly medal; she is not even a skater or skating coach really. Chan has huge technical issues and really needs to grow - not just artistically but skill wise to be competitive.

 

[Interspectator]

This snapshot belongs in this thread. http://kirariyuzu.tumblr.com/post/131242124451/dotanba-muscle
Patrick scopes the competition.

 

[Sorrento]

This part from the new icenetwork article seems to be interesting: Chan on his quad(s): "I'm only working on my quad toe right now. It would be too much on my plate to try and train another. If I'm training another quad, that wouldn't be smart to try and put it in my program. I'm pushing myself to the limit and I'm just trying to stay healthy. Injuries would be the only thing to hold me back from the 2018 Olympics."
Is he more of a toe or an edge jumper? Which new quad he most likely brings before the Olys?

 

[Violet Bliss]

I am glad that Chan can see the big picture and puts his health first. Pushing too hard has ended or diminished many athletic careers, including those of a few skaters. It is a lesson Chan does not forget from the Vancouver Olympic season.

It's good to know he is excited about competing with Hanyu like skating fans are.

 

[Krunchii]

This part from the new icenetwork article seems to be interesting: Chan on his quad(s): "I'm only working on my quad toe right now. It would be too much on my plate to try and train another. If I'm training another quad, that wouldn't be smart to try and put it in my program. I'm pushing myself to the limit and I'm just trying to stay healthy. Injuries would be the only thing to hold me back from the 2018 Olympics."
Is he more of a toe or an edge jumper? Which new quad he most likely brings before the Olys?

He was said to be practicing the 4S a few years ago so I'm guessing if he wants another quad he may go for that again.

 

[Interspectator]

If Chan can land both quads in the LP, he can still beat Yuzu who is trying such a technically difficult program this year.
It is his usual pattern do do some rather poor free skates in the first GPs and the build up to the GPF.

 

[Sorrento]

He was said to be practicing the 4S a few years ago so I'm guessing if he wants another quad he may go for that again.

Oh yes, I think I've heard about it too, just wasn't sure about it.

 

[Sorrento]

It is his usual pattern do do some rather poor free skates in the first GPs and the build up to the GPF.

Patrick or Yuzuru?

 

[Interspectator]

Patrick or Yuzuru?

Yuzuru.

He actually has never won both his GP leading up to the final.

In 2011 he was 4th and 1st --GPF4th
In 2012 he was 2nd and 1st--GPF2nd
In 2013 he was 2nd and 2nd--GPF1st
In 2014 he was 2nd and 4th!--GPF1st

If you want to beat Yuzu, the best time to do it is in the early GP.

 

[wallee]

Hanyu by a huge margin this time
then Fernandez, Shoma, Ten, Yan

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Chan has huge technical issues and really needs to grow - not just artistically but skill wise to be competitive.

Consistency-wise, yes, Chan needs to grow. But artistically, I think you mean "he has room to grow artistically"... he doesn't need to artistically grow in the sense that he doesn't need to keep up artistically, since he is the best of the field artistically. Right now, he's in a class of his own (though the other guys, like Hanyu) have made up ground.

As far as "huge technical issues", I strongly disagree. Skating-wise, he has no flaws (or at least no major flaws). Jumps-wise, his issue isn't technical so much as consistency and maintaining focus -- his technique on every jump (save for his triple axel) and spin is fine.

Hanyu is similar although lately it seems his quad toe is giving him trouble and of course there's his lutz... he's also improved his lip from a e to seemingly no edge call (although if he were any second tier skater I'm sure the tech specialist would call it as a !). His overall skating quality is the biggest thing that's improved, otherwise I'd totally give the nod to Chan this season. I think Hanyu's base difficulty and having closed the PCS gap will keep him ahead of Chan for now.

 

[MaxSwagg]

Consistency-wise, yes, Chan needs to grow. But artistically, I think you mean "he has room to grow artistically"... he doesn't need to artistically grow in the sense that he doesn't need to keep up artistically, since he is the best of the field artistically. Right now, he's in a class of his own (though the other guys, like Hanyu) have made up ground.

As far as "huge technical issues", I strongly disagree. Skating-wise, he has no flaws (or at least no major flaws). Jumps-wise, his issue isn't technical so much as consistency and maintaining focus -- his technique on every jump (save for his triple axel) and spin is fine.

Hanyu is similar although lately it seems his quad toe is giving him trouble and of course there's his lutz... he's also improved his lip from a e to seemingly no edge call (although if he were any second tier skater I'm sure the tech specialist would call it as a !). His overall skating quality is the biggest thing that's improved, otherwise I'd totally give the nod to Chan this season. I think Hanyu's base difficulty and having closed the PCS gap will keep him ahead of Chan for now.

At his age, Yuzu is one of the greatest ever in the sport; with that level or natural prowess, why couldn't he improve the edge to his flip? I don't think he's gotten any type of warning or edge call in two seasons...

 

[xibsuarz]

At his age, Yuzu is one of the greatest ever in the sport; with that level or natural prowess, why couldn't he improve the edge to his flip? I don't think he's gotten any type of warning or edge call in two seasons...

He got an edge warning at Worlds 2015, he sometimes gets them but it has been a couple of seasons since he downright got an "e". He struggles with the flip, always has

 

[MaxSwagg]

He got an edge warning at Worlds 2015, he sometimes gets them but it has been a couple of seasons since he downright got an "e". He struggles with the flip, always has

Oh, yes! I remember that one. For the most part they look fine though...

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

At his age, Yuzu is one of the greatest ever in the sport; with that level or natural prowess, why couldn't he improve the edge to his flip? I don't think he's gotten any type of warning or edge call in two seasons...

He's had a couple e calls in the 2013-2014 season (http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2014/wc2014_Men_FS_Scores.pdf, http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpfra2013/gpfra2013_Men_FS_Scores.pdf, http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpfra2013/gpfra2013_Men_FS_Scores.pdf) but no "e" in the 2014-2015 season (when he improved his flip edge) - he did get a ! at Worlds though http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2015/wc2015_Men_FS_Scores.pdf.
I still don't think his edge on the 3F is as definitively inside edge as somebody like Brown, Ten or Chan, but it's pretty much a flat without lipping as before (freeze framing the Autumn Classic FS, it looked slightly on the outside edge to me, but definitely not an "e" lip).

 

[Sorrento]

But artistically, I think you mean "he has room to grow artistically"... he doesn't need to artistically grow in the sense that he doesn't need to keep up artistically, since he is the best of the field artistically.

I really doubt he's the best in artistic department, sorry. He doesn't reach every viewer artistically, many people noted that he's not really connecting with the audience every time, in fact it happens rarely. He is very good in PSC department but that does not equal artistic.

 

[Rissa]

He is very good in PSC department but that does not equal artistic.

Pretty much my thoughts during every discussion on "artistry".

Conversely, there are some skaters who are "artistic" but with not that great PCS.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I really doubt he's the best in artistic department, sorry. He doesn't reach every viewer artistically, many people noted that he's not really connecting with the audience every time, in fact it happens rarely. He is very good in PSC department but that does not equal artistic.

FYI, there is no skater in the field (or in history) who reaches every viewer artistically or who connects with the audience every time. Some have come close (like Kwan and Takahashi), but still you can't please everybody in every program.

Also, if all current skaters skated clean, Chan would still have the highest PCS marks... and PCS is the de facto "artistic" mark. So I'd say that does equal "artistic" (at least in the judges eyes and from a competitive standpoint).

 

[Rissa]

and PCS is the de facto "artistic" mark. So I'd say that does equal "artistic" (at least in the judges eyes and from a competitive standpoint).

Lol no. It should be but it is not. Skating Skills and Transitions have nothing to do with "artistitry" (look at Menshov: quite artistic programs with great interpretation but meh on Skating Skills and Transitions) and when it comes to the other three, which actually should reflect the artistic value, judges give marks like they don't know what they mean most of the time.

But then, I suppose that's why judges call it "Components" and not "Artistic Impression" anymore. I remember I was actually irritated when a comentator called that mark "artistic impression" when Elizabet Tursynbaeva who had the greatest artistic impression in last years junior worlds scored much lower than a few of her competitors but which was probably justified in terms of components.

 

[MaxSwagg]

For me, Dai is the top. Patrick could only hope to be him...