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IDEK, Patrick can get a bit more than Yuzuru in SS and still, how much more? like .50 per judge at very max? it's not like Yuzuru is Kovtun or something. Rest of components, Yuzuru is superior or equal to Patrick.
Chan v. Hanyu: 2015-16
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IDEK, Patrick can get a bit more than Yuzuru in SS and still, how much more? like .50 per judge at very max? it's not like Yuzuru is Kovtun or something. Rest of components, Yuzuru is superior or equal to Patrick.
I hope that Chan will give stronger fight to Hanyu as he will be his great motivator, but we will see. IF Hanyu executes his content cleanly TES will be incredible, but even if he not executes full program cleanly but rotates everything his TES will be still very big
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To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised to see them neraly tied in PCS if both are clean. I'd expect Chan to have a bit of a lead (maybe around 3 points?), but the last time we saw them on the same ice was the Olympics, and we don't know how the judges will welcome Patrick back. The standings have changed, and Yuzuru also improved quite a lot since early 2014.
Additionally, IMO Yuzurus LP this season is a real stand out, and it got a lot of positive reactions so far... Patricks LP is nice, but not exactly anything new or special. That might make the PCS gap (that used to be a bit bigger in the LP than the SP I think) a little smaller too.
And last point: if Yuzuru nails 3 quads, judges might go crazy with the PCS because he'll win anyway.
Let's just say even if he landed 1/3 quad. Rotated with falls on the other 2. His TES would still be at least 10 points higher than Patrick's clean program. Even if Patrick gets 97 in his PCS, no judges will put Hanyu at 87 in PCS. So, 2 falls over Patrick is about right. Hanyu is what Yuna was to the rest of the field in 2010. As long as he skates near clean, no one will catch him.
"The majority that thinks different" is a top cliche that I have ever heard in this sport. Come on now, have you counted every single opinion out there? You think that when you use this type of cliche you make your words sound more powerful- nope, they form an opinion, that's it. That opinion is the opposite to mine and many others.Also, feel free to add another quarter to the "Chan's skating leaves me cold" cliché jar.It's totally fine if you have that opinion (after all, everyone experiences programs/skaters in various ways), but the majority of the figure skating world does not share that opinion, sorry.
Also- I don't think that including the marks that are two year old would help anyone to see what is going to happen this season or two seasons after this. And that is what I would like to think about: current state of Patrick's TES and PCS and not his past remunerations.
I also think that figure skating is connected to the art by using the power of music, lyrics, singers, musicians, composers, designers (and some add ballet, opera, books, movies, ect, etc) so... figure skating is a sport that takes so much from the art that it is okay to call some performances- competitive performances (because those I love the most)- as artistic. Therefore it is okay to call those performers artists. Of course in a way it is an interpreted form of art, the one that helps to complete the competition task. But as long as athletes actually care about what they skate to and care about the costumes and care about the stories behind what they skate- art is involved in figure skating.
I think I myself would never be so crazy about this sport without the risky, powerful, crazy quads. Because it was Plushenko who was my first super hero on ice. And I still put my eyes on those who deliver it techncially but also have an artistic vibes about them. I do have favorites, true. But I am also one of those who will sincerely applaud and praise non favorites for their great performances. Because before the favorits I love and respect this sport. And I believe it can develop only in case skaters care about both TES and PSC, and artistic impression (that would be different for different people).
You guys trying to discuss Patrick's base value without seeing the competition skate in it's flesh and blood- how do you know Patrick will perform one single quad only? Isn't it too premature to say that? I say- let's wait for Skate Canada first. I'm sure Patrick will fight to win and his planned BV is higher that the one we saw on Japan Open. He comes back to win, not to prove that his skating skills are still the best on this planet and maybe in the entire universe.
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which hasn't happened in a long time
I agree with your first statement... I am also convinced that Patrick will have two quads and that the layout we saw at JO isn't the one we will see at WC.You guys trying to discuss Patrick's base value without seeing the competition skate in it's flesh and blood- how do you know Patrick will perform one single quad only? Isn't it too premature to say that? I say- let's wait for Skate Canada first. I'm sure Patrick will fight to win and his planned BV is higher that the one we saw on Japan Open. He comes back to win, not to prove that his skating skills are still the best on this planet and maybe in the entire universe.
For your second comment, which I bolded... actually, Patrick is coming back for the joy of skating and competing... not for winning... he has not put a "result" on his comeback and has stated that he is happy with his career up till now and if he retired, he would have no regrets... however he is back for the love of skating and creating programs... so let's enjoy
It happened in last competition of last season and at GPF 2014
Just to let you know
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You guys trying to discuss Patrick's base value without seeing the competition skate in it's flesh and blood- how do you know Patrick will perform one single quad only? Isn't it too premature to say that? I say- let's wait for Skate Canada first. I'm sure Patrick will fight to win and his planned BV is higher that the one we saw on Japan Open. He comes back to win, not to prove that his skating skills are still the best on this planet and maybe in the entire universe.
I'm almost entirely sure Chan will have 2 quads, as he knows there's no way he can keep up with an already technically superior 3 quads 2 axels Hanyu with just 1 quad and 1 axel. I don't know though - maybe Patrick's priority isn't winning so much as getting back out there... I don't think he'd be particularly disappointed if he lost to somebody who's the 2015 GPF champion and 2015 World silver medalist, and he's more concerned with building towards and medaling at Worlds than winning Skate Canada.
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It happened in last competition of last season and at GPF 2014
Yup... and TEB 2013, the current world record, was less than 2 years ago, too (not exactly "a long time").
GPF 2014; Quite recent.
I don't buy that Patrick Chan is just back for the "sheer joy of skating". He's still pressed over losing the gold in Sochi and his goal is to win those medals, esp. Pyeongchang 2018. His comeback is similar to Asada's.
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Oh please, for the love of figure skating- I don't believe a word. No athlete comes back to the competitions field where his/her heart was broken for the reason other than a sweet revenge. He's here to see if his PCS are the still the basis where with the help of second quad he could build a golden throne for himself. Top athletes are all the same. Even when they say they want it for the joy or artistic completion- none of these is true. The only thing that drives them to kill themselves in practice is a chance to win the gold, even the tiniest chance in the entire universe. They are selfish, they want to win. I don't say it is a bad thing. But honestly, let's be real. A win is a win is a win.
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You're certainly entitled to your opinion on all counts. But Patrick does have personality in my opinion. And clearly he has personality in the opinion of the judges - which matters WAY more than yours or mine. End of the day, he has what it takes to win - and does win - so I doubt he really cares about a minority of people who feel cold about his skating, and will continue to do what works for him and what works for the majority of the skating world.
And prior to blowing out his knee, Takahashi even at his best still didn't have the quality of jumps that Chan has. Takahashi's strength has always been primarily presentation.
And if he had "far superior programs" on the whole - and we're talking everything that makes up a program, not just interpretive ability/musicality when performing it - then why aren't Takahashi's personal best PCS scores "far superior" to Chan's personal best PCS scores? Why is Chan's personal best competition score 20 points higher than Takahashi's?
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Don't you think he'll do his best to win in the face of his home crowd? He has to win at home. That would only reassure him that his comeback was reasonable. Plus it's great motivation to get such a huge support at his first GP event.
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Oh, I think he wants to win. But he's not going to be upset or surprised if he loses to Hanyu at this point (nor should he be). After all, he's just getting back to high-level competition after a year off. If he places off the podium though he will definitely be disappointed.
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Quality, refinement, and maturity aside, three words for Patrick: dead fish eyes. That's what I get.
And of course he's peeved about losing Sochi gold!
Oh no, that would be a disaster. I watched Hanyu when he lost placing at 4th last season at NHK, man, that guy was in pain. It did not help that he was blessed to survive after CoC and every competition and even every skate were a miracle. Placing off the podium is painful for those who got used to get gold& silver.
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I, for one, would like this sport to return in some way to its roots - skating of figures. No, I'm not suggesting compulsory figures right here. But an emphasis on skating skills including edges, turns and transitions. So the current emphasis on this in PCS is a good thing. I liked the old 6.0 system but the artistic impression was quite biased and I agree that it seemed like figure skating was trying to be something it isn't - an art form. For me, it's quite clearly a sport and whilst everybody could find art and beauty in everything in life, you have to define things for what they are first. That is, it's a sport first and more than anything.
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Save for their Olympic season shorts (and the prior year, thank you Jeff Buttle), I wouldn't say Yuzuru or Patrick have any personality in their programs. The only emotion I get from both is tension regarding whether they would land their jumps or not. Patrick has the edges to fascinate you throughout the program and Yuzuru has the Ina Bauer where the audience is supposed to fill in the emotion he should have had for the prior 4 minutes.
It happened in last competition of last season and at GPF 2014
Oh please, for the love of figure skating- I don't believe a word. No athlete comes back to the competitions field where his/her heart was broken for the reason other than a sweet revenge. He's here to see if his PCS are the still the basis where with the help of second quad he could build a golden throne for himself. Top athletes are all the same. Even when they say they want it for the joy or artistic completion- none of these is true. The only thing that drives them to kill themselves in practice is a chance to win the gold, even the tiniest chance in the entire universe. They are selfish, they want to win. I don't say it is a bad thing. But honestly, let's be real. A win is a win is a win.
Oh I don't think Chan will be satisfied with anything other than gold. Let's be honest every top skater wants one thing to win! I do think he'll win SC because well it's in Canada.lol home advantage. As a Hanyu fan I think it will be a lot harder for anyone to win because the men's field has grown so much stronger than it was in 2013-2014 season.
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