Chan v. Hanyu: 2015-16

[giulia95]

rumors?

 

[tzazu]

Cough cough! I am so proud and honored to be part of the vulgus that admires, loves , adores legendary Dai and that thin boy with an angelic face and flapping wings …:shocked:

Honestly I was not aware some skaters are so sophisticated and intellectual that Kant’s categories and trascendental idealism are required to catch their superior artistry

 

[daphenaxa]

Rumors are he may replace the 3F with the 4Lo and have 4 quads...I can't see Brian allowing that though.

really? from who/where? I always thought it was his endgame goal for OG in Korea but he is not gonna do that now I don't think. He has to land the 3 quads first.
What I think is possible is that he goes for 2 salchows instead of 2 toes because he seems to struggle with 4T right now whereas 4S is very consistent.

 

[MaxSwagg]

rumors?

Well not a rumor. Essentially a casual comment by a reporter that traveled with shows in Asia. It was a 40 minute discussion solely about Yuzu, his mentality, what coaches think of him. Even so, it wouldn't be surprising if he did want to do this. One of the things that pushes him is adding more difficulty...

 

[Rissa]

As said, earlier, for some people interpretation is having an arm movement or a facial expression or a jump on a precise point of the music.. creating a higlight in choreography... for me, interpretation is not shallow mimicking as described... it's really about seizing the meaning, the emotion of a piece and transcend it... it goes through a deeper rendition of the music... a global interpretation....

And how exactly, please englighten, does one seize the meaning and emotion of a piece and transcends it and goes into deeper rendition and global interpretation laugh2 without arm movements on the point in music or without facial expression or without creating a highlight in choreography? Sorry, but flow, maturity and refinement without those mean jack.

 

[giulia95]

Well not a rumor. Essentially a casual comment by a reporter that traveled with shows in Asia. It was a 40 minute discussion solely about Yuzu, his mentality, what coaches think of him. Even so, it wouldn't be surprising if he did want to do this. One of the things that pushes him is adding more difficulty...

many thanks for the reply!

 

[xibsuarz]

I don't know if this makes sense to anyone but personally, I always thought Chan's skating is postmodern deconstruction figure skating. It's not about representing music.

Anyways, it will be a great dissapointment if Chan doesn't attept three quad in SC.

Are you talking about SP+FS? Or only the FS? Because I'm pretty sure he's not trying 3 quads in his free, but if you count the one he'll do in the SP you're all set. I think he'll definitely go for a total of 3 quads :yes:

 

[mrrice]

I just watched a recent interview with Patrick Chan on Youtube. I have to say. He's very smart, sincere, and talented. I hope he has a great year and that he can achieve what ever goals he's set for himself.

 

[HanDomi]

Hanyu will be not doing definitely 4 quads FS, his next step will be 2 quads SP

 

[4everchan]

i think that i have constructed my post exactly not to be provocative by omitting to point fingers at specific skaters. My point is more about the fact that there are different styles of interpretation... some are literal, associating specific musical gestures to choreography and some are working with a global emotion... what people blatantly dismiss in Chan's interpretation is his lack of such choreographic gestures, which for me is what makes his programs deeper artistically.... i don't think my post is provocative at all since I am not diminishing other skaters but rather expressing what I appreciate personally. and btw... i had never mentioned Daisuke whom I adore!!!! so see, if anyone could be on tilt here as intentions i never had were associated to my post which meant to be more general.

4everchan, whilst perhaps your intention was not such, phrases such as 'shallow mimicking' and 'appealing to the masses' have negative connotations even to the extent of maybe making people think of cheap hacks. So that description will be somewhat provocative, shall I say. Anyway, I will leave it there.

 

[4everchan]

really? I thought he would do 2 quads SP before 4 quads FP... is it because he doesn't often land 4-3 that it is safer to only do one in sp for him?

Hanyu will be not doing definitely 4 quads FS, his next step will be 2 quads SP

 

[HanDomi]

really? I thought he would do 2 quads SP before 4 quads FP... is it because he doesn't often land 4-3 that it is safer to only do one in sp for him?

He was doing 4-3 when he was 15 and he is doing it in practice sometimes. I just said he will NOT be doing 4 quads fs ever. That's just too much in his program that is packed with choreography, and backloaded triple axel combinations.
3 quads in enough. I guess it is going trough his mind to do 3 diffrent quads in future, but we will see.


His 2nd half 4T in SP is preparation for 2 quads sp I guess in next season as he was doing 4-3 in autumn classic practices too

 

[padme21]

Honestly Takahashi was one of the greatest artists on the ice maybe of all time and for me Yuzuru has much more personality than Patrick ...that's for sure. Watching Patrick from the beginning of his career to current times leaves me nothing but cold, I am like "hey Patrick, I know you have outstanding edges but I have seen this performance from you 3 years ago, what is new? show me versatility" .and yes, I get pleasure from Patrick's skating when I only watch him below ankles because of his (edges, ss) the rest nothing exciting for me

Honestly I highly doubt it will depends on Borser if Yuzu decides to train the 4L season time or not, primarily because Yuzu said 4L helped him to stabilize his 4S .

I have a very different opinion of Hanyu's journey as a skater. Watching the World's 2012 was amazing, but he's faster now, with better posture, more stamina, better jumping technique and better programs and better control over his arms and hands in time to the music.

In 2012-2014 he had Parisienne Walkways, electrifying and energetic, and now we have the Chopin program which is full of his own personal musical interpretation. He changes the choreo with Jeff and also on his own each time to convey something different.
Now with Seimei it's even better.

Patrick too has programs this year that are better than any I have seen from him before.

But if, as you say, Patrick does not compromise art for sport...is he compromising sport for art?

Makes me think of Machida who did everything for the music and for the integrity of the program as an art-form but it proved an extremely risky strategy that only worked once that season before he retired.

Hanyu says he wants to show certain things in his program, (delicacy, strength, music) but he never said he wants to be an 'artist' which I agree with...because that's something he will have ample time to tackle in exhibitions and after he retires. Since figure skating is a sport, after-all. If art is achieved as a side-product, then its a bonus we can all enjoy.
After he retires he intends to have a long pro-career and work with as many skaters as possible (according to the Nobu-Yuzu-Shoma tea-party interview).

I really like Hanyu's Chopin and raved about it since the beginning, but I see it as something that is Patrick Chan influenced, perhaps because it is a style Patrick has dominated and made such a strong and indelible impression. (or the fact it happened to be choreographed by Buttle too)

Artistry is under valued under COP anyway. It is practically a luxury where some of the best work are from those who made it, who can afford to develop it vs a strategy focuses entirely on chasing for points. Those who are successful in it are rarely justifiably awarded consider the amount of effort put into it vs just having another favorable competition/judging panel to bridge the gap. So perhaps it is natural then for Patrick who can afford to develop it now because he is more advanced in his career.

Same with Hanyu, it is only now he got the OGM, he can now afford to experiment more, like with Seimei (which I sort of see it as his 'homage to Korea' post Olympic Yuna Kim program. Something from his own culture, rarely seen globally, more of himself in it, the progress of developing it is more satisfying than winning another medal, or pleasing the judges). My first impression of Parisienne Walkaway was actually that it was 'too trying' and 'objectifying' rather than felt like a natural progression. That program is 2 years too early for him I think but then I suppose the team's strategy is forcing him to make the leap from seen as a manchild to a man readying for the Olympic season to compete with the big boys including Plushy. The thing is the technical arsenal Hanyu has, he could have skate to anything and would have worked. Not a fan of repeat programs, nor a fan of inflation, and as much as I really love Hanyu, I definitely felt 2012-2013 season was inflated and gearing up to the Olympics with massive helps and support from Japan federations, at the expense of some of their own best skaters include Daisuke at home events.

I disagree agree. Parisienne walkways was perfect for Hanyu! It wasn't too trying or objectifying at all it was the exact opposite it was perfect! It brought out the wild side of his personality and he owned it. He earned that world record at the Olympics! Also Daisuke was not at his best at 2013 japanese nationals were he finished off the podium or at the Olympics due to his knee injury. Are you trying to suggest that Hanyu stole Daisuke's Thunder? That the Japanese Fed threw Daisuke under the bus in favor of Hanyu? I see nothing wrong with repeat programs as long as you perform a new layout. I think Hanyu is keeping Chopin because last season was a nightmare and because of that he was never able to perform Chopin the way in was intended. Hanyu is NOT a man child! I think you misunderstand what a man child is a manchild by definition is an immature man or adult child which hardly applies to Hanyu as he is emotional strong and very mature for his age. So I'd say that skating to Pariseinne Walkways was perfect for the Olympics and was right in time with his growth as a skater. How is skating to Chopin a PChan piece all of a sudden? Is Hanyu not allowed to skater to slow classical pieces? He's skated to slow classical pieces before Étude in D minor, R&J 1 and 2, Notre Dame de Paris ect. About the score inflation before the Olympic season. Everyone's scores were a little inflationed. Not that that would have changed anything as he still deserved to win

 

[mrrice]

Am I missing something? I can't understand why every skating fan in the world doesn't at least have a HUGE appreciation for Patrick Chan. He's so talented and the boy has serious skills. He may not "ring your bell" but, come on, he's one of the greatest skaters of all time.

 

[4everchan]

hehe i misread you.... i didn't see the NOT in your sentence... my bad.... so how consistent is his 4-3?

He was doing 4-3 when he was 15 and he is doing it in practice sometimes. I just said he will NOT be doing 4 quads fs ever. That's just too much in his program that is packed with choreography, and backloaded triple axel combinations.
3 quads in enough. I guess it is going trough his mind to do 3 diffrent quads in future, but we will see.


His 2nd half 4T in SP is preparation for 2 quads sp I guess in next season as he was doing 4-3 in autumn classic practices too

 

[4everchan]

Am I missing something? I can't understand why every skating fan in the world doesn't at least have a HUGE appreciation for Patrick Chan. He's so talented and the boy has serious skills. He may not "ring your bell" but, come on, he's one of the greatest skaters of all time.

i totally agree with your post... hence my user name.... 4everchan... no matter how he does, I will always appreciate his skating. I was shocked when i first join the forum to read so much negativity.... and of course, whenever someone who has a username associated to him posts anything, it is automatically believed that we are diminishing others.... i love chan, i love hanyu, i love daisuke ... i love buttle and kurt.. so many skaters.... being a figure skating fan is not a MARRIAGE!!!!! we can polygamously love many skaters why so much banter? oh well.. thanks for your comment! it's refreshing!

 

[Rissa]

Am I missing something? I can't understand why every skating fan in the world doesn't at least have a HUGE appreciation for Patrick Chan. He's so talented and the boy has serious skills. He may not "ring your bell" but, come on, he's one of the greatest skaters of all time.

I think every skating fan appreciates what he can put out but the discussion starts when it's being forced that what he can put out is the epitome of "artistry". Because that, as this thread evidences, many do not agree with. Just like everybody can appreciate Jin Boyang's quads as long as nobody forces an opinion that his 4T is the best ever.

And from archival therads, my understading is that a few of Patrick's wins which were widely perceived as undeserved, soured the appreciacion quite a bit.

 

[shiroKJ]

hehe i misread you.... i didn't see the NOT in your sentence... my bad.... so how consistent is his 4-3?

He's done it a few times in public (shows, practices) this year and he stood up on all of them. Some landings were wobbly but he hasn't really practiced it in years so The most recent one is in the same practice where he did the 4Lo - at Autumn classics, its in one of the videos.

 

[HanDomi]

hehe i misread you.... i didn't see the NOT in your sentence... my bad.... so how consistent is his 4-3?

I guess the answer is in how many times he will land good quad toe. If landing is good he will have no problem adding 3t on it

 

[4everchan]

yeah... that's the issue... it's almost just better for him to do 3LZ+3T with huge GOE.... than 4t-3t (or 2t) with minus GOE or even a fall or an UR like he had in the last showings.

I guess the answer is in how many times he will land good quad toe. If landing is good he will have no problem adding 3t on it