Chan v. Hanyu: 2015-16

[OS]

(except than Hanyu's program is now even more difficult than before and Chan's slightly easier, so...)

As a result, Hanyu performance deteriorated from norm, while Chans improved from norm, so the PCS should have reflected this with greater variance if PCS is to be judged fairly.

10% is an minimum estimate... I think it should be more actually. A matter of between 10/10 vs 9/10. Thought it is perfectly reasonable :taunt:

 

[HanDomi]

As a result, Hanyu performance deteriorated from norm, while Chans improved from norm, so the PCS should have reflected this with greater variance if PCS is to be judged fairly.

10% is an minimum estimate... I think it should be more actually. A matter of between 10/10 vs 9/10. Thought it is perfectly reasonable :taunt:

In what way Hanyu performance deteriorated ? At this stage of season two season ago Hanyu would have been bombing his quads left and right, and here he landed 3 of them in one program. Just wait until GPF, where he should be in top form if his season history will continue like always

 

[yyyskate]

:scard7::furious:

 

[OS]

On this occasion, I found Hanyu's movements a bit sloppier and less assured compare to practice. The whole performance was a bit tentative and below his bests. Especially in the 2nd half and then the fall on lutz, the super Hanyu's impression is just gone. This has an knock on effect to make the final panting pose bit of an anticlimax due to mentioned points, where the whole program spent too much time setting up jumps at expense of choreography and artistic impression, especially when compared with patrick's program, so it doesn't have the 'meat' to justify the final pose. I am not sure how to describe it. Imagine you go to watch Usain Bolt and expecting him to deliver 100 meters in his usual <10 seconds, except he ends up took 15 seconds to finish a 105 meter race but still did his massive celebratory dance at the finishing line as if he just broke the world record, and you kind of go
:think:

If we are to mark 2 season ago according OS's Scoring of nobody cares Hanyu's PCS should be around
8.5 / 10 vs 9 / 10 for Patrick on a good Canadian day (While everyone should be around 7s or 8s with the exception of Abbott, Takahashi and possible Kozuka). Hanyu is a much better skater today than yesterday. I don't think he is as good as Patrick still, but for argument's sake lets matched their SS BOTH at 9.0 by default, including choreography/performance/interpretation/transition etc..

The SC FS was the best ever performance by Patrick Chan imo, it certainly deserve a 10 (or 6.0 moment whatever), but for argument's sake, let's put him conservatively at 9.5, a difference of 0.5.

A subpar Hanyu still deserve at least a 8.5, so that is
8.5 vs 9.5 = 1 = 10% approx Voila!

For me PCS and TES should be about balance. If you inflate PCS too much, it became unfair with those who compete on TES. If you upgrade TES, you should be willing to accept there may be compromises the artistry of figure skating because of it. And when your performance DID visibly suffers, the PCS should absolutely reflect this rather than expect judges to use the same benchmark when you had easier content and therefore were able to deliver a better and more well rounded performance.

 

[Ophelia]

where the whole program spent too much time setting up jumps at expense of choreography and artistic impression, especially when compared with patrick's program, so it doesn't have the 'meat' to justify the final pose. I am not sure how to describe it.

But the judge-stalking! The hydro-blade! The Ina Bauer! The ying-yang pattern! For a program jam-packed with quads, it had alot of intricate choreography.

 

[OS]

But the judge-stalking! The hydro-blade! The Ina Bauer! The ying-yang pattern! For a program jam-packed with quads, it had alot of intricate choreography.

I love those bits believe me, but there's still that 1 whole minute just set up 2 jumping elements with not much going on. That section can be tweaked or flesh out better to appear less obvious 'breathing points'. It is one of the best program this season, but it is about relative comparison. Had I not seen what Patrick did, i'd give him 90

 

[Li'Kitsu]

so how would you express it then?

I wouldn't use percentages for PCS, plain and simple

 

[Kelly]

"Some" skaters got a nice GOE boost, "others" didn't.

That's what I think too. I would agree that Patrick should won the FS under 6.0 system in Skate Canada.
But I still don't understand the logic or the rules that when Hanyu has base value of 90.50 vs. Patrick's 76.92, Hanyu's TEC
total scores end up only 3 some points more than Patrick's.

 

[chuckm]

What bothers me about Chan is that he is such an ungracious winner and loser.
His angry outburst on seeing his SP score of 80.81 (he fell on the 3a and doubled the lutz) "That is such bull----!"

 

[gravy]

What bothers me about Chan is that he is such an ungracious winner and loser.

Hah, yes. So true.

 

[gruesome]

But I still don't understand the logic or the rules that when Hanyu has base value of 90.50 vs. Patrick's 76.92, Hanyu's TEC
total scores end up only 3 some points more than Patrick's.

That is a game the judges play, and they are good at it.

 

[Blades of Passion]

As a result, Hanyu performance deteriorated from norm, while Chans improved from norm, so the PCS should have reflected this with greater variance if PCS is to be judged fairly.

Eh, if they were to both skate their absolute best ever (Hanyu at his current level with his 2012 Worlds LP vs Chan at his current level with his 2009 LP) I don't think Chan would deserve to win PCS. They both have pluses and minuses. Even in his more sluggish program at Skate Canada, Hanyu still showed some superior qualities.

 

[4everchan]

so how? points will best be shown in percentage...

I wouldn't use percentages for PCS, plain and simple

 

[Mathman]

But I still don't understand the logic or the rules that when Hanyu has base value of 90.50 vs. Patrick's 76.92, Hanyu's TEC total scores end up only 3 some points more than Patrick's.

? The logic is simplicity itself. The base value (quantity) is balanced by the GOEs (quality). Chan got huge GOEs because of the quality of his elements, while Hanyu even got a couple of negative GOEs for mistakes.

Next time? We'll see.

 

[MaxSwagg]

Judging aside, Yuzu blew this win. All he had to do what skate a typical short program after he's seen Patrick's score, get in the low-mid 90s, and he probably could've fallen twice in the FS and still won. However, considering last season, 2nd is better than laying unconscious on the ice (even if he did get 2nd there as well). He's only 20. People ask too much of him sometimes. On the flip side, Patrick better be worried about not blowing it at the end of the season at the major competitions.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Why would you say that? Patrick tends to do better as the season progresses, and he got a huuuuuge monkey off his back with the FS. I'm sure most counted him out after Chan's SP and expected Hanyu to clean house (heck even before the competition started).

Even for the FS I think most people (myself included) assumed Hanyu's difficulty was more than enough to beat Chan (who people kept saying he only has 2 quads and 1 axel which would easily get trounced by Hanyu's 3 quads and 2 axels... Where funny enough, Hanyu almost landed all his quads and landed both 3A and Chan did just one quad and one triple axel, and still Chan won (and almost matched him on TES thanks to GOE).

This competition proved that on paper doesn't always equate to on ice.

 

[Interspectator]

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3c1hs3_1102-絶対王者-に勝つために_sport

Yuzu interview after Skate Canada.
"Patrick is like the sun, and he has shown me my shadow" "I must be come stronger"

No worries about Yuzu...he likes this sort of thing. :hap93: As long as he can stay healthy.
Patrick beat Yuzu by even larger margins at the beginning of the Olympic season and by the end he'd turned it around 3 times successively.
I think he can do it again.

 

[robredo40]

hanyu beat chan at the olympics because chan imploded simple as that.

 

[Interspectator]

hanyu beat chan at the olympics because chan imploded simple as that.

--And that will never happen again?
One could say the same about this time too, but it doesn't take away from Chan's awesome LP that the won the gold for him.
It was Sochi Reversed.

SP, both imploded but Chan less so, LP Chan magnificent, LP Yuzu was very good.

 

[robredo40]

Hanyu is a great skater but he should pace himself his technical content is too much, chan is pacing himself he will add the second quad at nationals, if hanyu continues like that he will have nothing left for worlds he needs to take the third quad out he does not need it.