I know what you mean but I have to disagree. When a master is at work there's artistry in everything he does. This isn't necessarily Chan, but everybody who has achieved a certain prowess in his field. The ideas and feelings don't need to be projected, because the audience is inspired anyway.
2015 Skate Canada Mens Free Skate
- Thread starter dorispulaski
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- Feb 9, 2014
Yuzu has naturally soft and graceful arms. He does not necessarily focus on them. Sometimes, he just drops his arms, and they become too noodle-y. He tends to loose control when the beat gets faster and choreography gets complicated even in his SP.
I don't know. I prefer limited, yet throughly-controlled-port-de-bras to natural, but not-always-there-port-de-bras. Yes, he does not have Lambiel's arms but that does not stop him from moving to the music. I think they could be better, but not entirely against music.
Wish list:
0. Can Chan go to Vaganova just a summer session?
1. Can Lambiel be Patrick's choreographer next season? I want to see their work together.
2. If Yuzu stops challenging the technical aspects and turns his focus towards the artistic side, I cannot imagine how amazing he possibly can be. But, that is not the path he has choose to go.
PS :
I think the best port-de-bras in current field is Denis Ten.
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- Jan 25, 2013
The judges aren't cracking down in PCS in the ladies event at all - what are you watching?especially Medvedeva got 67+ in PCS with a fall - more than what a lot of 'top tier' skaters got for clean skates until recently.
And if the judges were 'cracking down' on PCS because of falls, how did Chan get 45+ PCS in the SP despite his fall? Want to tell him he would have gotten a new personal best PCS without, despite the Lutz error and finishing behind the music?
That's... not any better. For me, you just replaced one empty term with another one consisting of one more word.
What really annoys me about this whole 'maturity' stick is how it's mostly used as a filler to basically say 'I like that better, so I'll use an intelligent sounding word nobody can really object to - and tada: I'm right'. What please is maturity in the artistic sense? And even worse: why is it so much better than other 'styles' or qualities? I'd take someone with the wild abandon, carelessness and raw emotions to draw me in, get me excited and bring me to tears even with bad posture or sloppiness here and there (=not mature) over someone with elegance and perfect posture, who finishes off his movements (=probably qualities of being 'mature'?), but no expression throughout. But hey, the last one is such a sign of maturity, other qualities are invalid.
That's okay. People are allowed to like different qualities. Some preferred Kwan over Lipinski in Nagano, and some vice versa. I personally love to watch skaters with reckless abandon, but I also like to watch skaters who show control and refinement. And frankly I think maturity is a more accurate word than something extremely subjective like calling a skater an "artistic" skater. Maturity indicates a finesse in one's movements, and a sensibility and sensitivity to how you portray yourself on the ice. Sometimes, I find Hanyu is very much in athlete mode, and then switches into artistic mode (particularly in the second half), whereas Chan's choreography is better designed to integrate elements within complex choreography. I find Hanyu more exciting to watch than Chan, but I find Chan more interesting to watch than Hanyu. I'm more impressed by Hanyu's athleticism but more impressed by Chan's overall quality of skating. That's not to say we have to appreciate one or the other, and one is deficient in what the other is better at. There's room to appreciate many types of skaters.
In regards to Medvedeva, she was overscored, as was Gold, the point is, Medvedeva wasn't lowballed just because she's coming out of Juniors. The judges actually looked at her program and compared it to a relatively longstanding skater like Gold, and credited Evgenia with higher scores. Same thing happened with Uno and Aaron, where Uno could have been lowballed because he was new on the scene and Aaron (like Gold) was on home ice... but they actually credited the programs accordingly (still a bit overscored for both Aaron and Uno, but the spread was appropriate, IMO). My point was that the judges seem to be actually judging PCS based on who should win and who has strong programs, and not using PCS as a means of propping up the favourites and preventing newcomers or clean skaters from breaking through. Something has changed (or at least in the first few events). e.g. Last year, Nagai - who wasn't even a World Junior medalist - would have likely not placed 2nd after the SP or made it onto the Skate Canada podium (most just would have scored her PCS as Judge #5 did in the FS).
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- Jun 21, 2003
Well, I do think that the concept of "artistic maturity" is well-defined, although it takes a lot of words to try to pin it down.
It doesn't mean, "I like that better." Compare Beethoven's First Symphony to his Fifth. Or "I Wanna Hold Your Hand" with "Hey Jude."Personally, I love "I Wanna Hold Your Hand," and this is my favorite Patrick Chan performance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xc2jXafZZws
And now I believe that I have pulled off the feat of convincing Chan fans that I don't like Patrick and Hanyu fans think that I don't like Yuzuru. Next week I will post about Javier Fernandez and go for a hat trick. :yes:
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- Feb 13, 2014
Can we stop abusing the word "artistry" and "maturity"? :furious: Because it's pretentious as hell. :roll5: And because: https://i.imgflip.com/7jxi8.jpg
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- Jan 25, 2013
Well at least maturity is a bit more tangible in terms of being able to attribute it to a skater... Artistry is such an abstract concept that depends on the person. Some find Takahashi an artist, others find Tobel to be one, and so on.
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- Mar 7, 2015
i am an artist by profession.. and despite the fact that i love figure skating and respect and value it to the point that i spent countless hours on this forum and watching videos, figure skating remains a sport so yeah... artists? meh
so yeah... artists? meh
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- Jun 21, 2003
Why is everyone so afraid of the plain English word "artistic"? If you look it up in the dictionary you see definitions like “having or revealing natural creative skill”; “aesthetically pleasing”; “showing skill or excellence in execution”; “exhibiting taste, discriminating judgment, or sensitivity”; “showing imaginative skill in arrangement or execution”; “Showing skill or ability in painting, dancing, singing, etc.”
The French term for figure skating is “patinage artistique.” Some demonstrations of Patinage are more Artistique than others.
I once printed up a bunch of little cards that said, "This is art." I stuck them up here and there on campus when I saw something that caught my eye. I had lots of fun until I got a ticket for littering.
The French term for figure skating is “patinage artistique.” Some demonstrations of Patinage are more Artistique than others.
I once printed up a bunch of little cards that said, "This is art." I stuck them up here and there on campus when I saw something that caught my eye. I had lots of fun until I got a ticket for littering.
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- Feb 13, 2014
It is not afraid of, more like people are abusing the word: http://www.rodif.com/art/tiatin/1.jpgWhy is everyone so afraid of the plain English word "artistic"? If you look it up in the dictionary you see definitions like “having or revealing natural creative skill”; “aesthetically pleasing”; “showing skill or excellence in execution”; “exhibiting taste, discriminating judgment, or sensitivity”; “showing imaginative skill in arrangement or execution”; “Showing skill or ability in painting, dancing, singing, etc.”
The French term for figure skating is “patinage artistique.” Some demonstrations of Patinage are more Artistique than others.
I once printed up a bunch of little cards that said, "This is art." I stuck them up here and there on campus when I saw something that caught my eye. I had lots of fun until I got a ticket for littering.
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- Jun 21, 2003
OK, now that's art! :2thumbs:
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- Mar 7, 2015
to be artistic and to be an artist are two different things...
as for the french, again, it's the adjective... and it is the same with gymnastics right? artistic gymnastics... sorry but i don't think holding on to a pommel horse has anything to do with arts... or running as fast as you can to propel yourself off the vault....
i am not afraid of the word, I just think people use it wrongly. for instance, people go into non-sense banter trying to explain that a skater who is greatly above the others in PCS is not an artist and therefore doesn't deserve these points, because he/she doesn't connect with the audience with let's say, his eyes.... or even his costumes
when i go to the symphony, the conductor isn't looking at me... he is conducting the orchestra... and doesn't connect with anything else than music.... i could even close my eyes and feel the emotion... try closing your eyes at figure skating... and let me know if you feel any emotion.... all is left would be the music...
it's a sport... like gymnastics or diving... it involves aesthetics for sure... but it is not an art form. It as sport with fixed rules, (even the infamous zayak rule) and requirements, and a definite code of point....
I wish I could fine everyone who misuse the word artist on this forum I'd be rich
as for the french, again, it's the adjective... and it is the same with gymnastics right? artistic gymnastics... sorry but i don't think holding on to a pommel horse has anything to do with arts... or running as fast as you can to propel yourself off the vault....
i am not afraid of the word, I just think people use it wrongly. for instance, people go into non-sense banter trying to explain that a skater who is greatly above the others in PCS is not an artist and therefore doesn't deserve these points, because he/she doesn't connect with the audience with let's say, his eyes.... or even his costumes
when i go to the symphony, the conductor isn't looking at me... he is conducting the orchestra... and doesn't connect with anything else than music.... i could even close my eyes and feel the emotion... try closing your eyes at figure skating...
and let me know if you feel any emotion.... all is left would be the music... it's a sport... like gymnastics or diving... it involves aesthetics for sure... but it is not an art form. It as sport with fixed rules, (even the infamous zayak rule) and requirements, and a definite code of point....
I wish I could fine everyone who misuse the word artist on this forum
I'd be richWhy is everyone so afraid of the plain English word "artistic"? If you look it up in the dictionary you see definitions like “having or revealing natural creative skill”; “aesthetically pleasing”; “showing skill or excellence in execution”; “exhibiting taste, discriminating judgment, or sensitivity”; “showing imaginative skill in arrangement or execution”; “Showing skill or ability in painting, dancing, singing, etc.”
The French term for figure skating is “patinage artistique.” Some demonstrations of Patinage are more Artistique than others.
I once printed up a bunch of little cards that said, "This is art." I stuck them up here and there on campus when I saw something that caught my eye. I had lots of fun until I got a ticket for littering.
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- Jun 21, 2003
when i go to the symphony, the conductor isn't looking at me... he is conducting the orchestra... and doesn't connect with anything else than music.... i could even close my eyes and feel the emotion... try closing your eyes at figure skating...
Figure skating is, in part, performance art.. Obviously if you close your eyes you miss the performance.
I still think we are working too hard. IMHO, the point of music is to charm the ear. The point of visual art is to delight the eye. I think we start to get in trouble when we wander too far from these basics. Michelle Kwan's skating delights my eye, soothes my soul, stirs my emotions, makes me feel like God's in His heaven and all's right with the world.
(Go Michelle!
)
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- Feb 13, 2014
I don't know where to share, but...
Yuzuru did spread eagle 4S spread eagle in gala practice: https://www.facebook.com/frances.kao.14/videos/1083542791678888/
And not just 4S, here is his spread eagle-3 turn-4T-spread eagle, video also by Frances Kao
https://www.facebook.com/frances.kao.14/videos/1083545115011989/
Of course he did these moves just for fun and those jumps look a bit tight in my eyes. But I wish if only one day he does one of these in competition.
Yuzuru did spread eagle 4S spread eagle in gala practice: https://www.facebook.com/frances.kao.14/videos/1083542791678888/
And not just 4S, here is his spread eagle-3 turn-4T-spread eagle, video also by Frances Kao
https://www.facebook.com/frances.kao.14/videos/1083545115011989/
Of course he did these moves just for fun and those jumps look a bit tight in my eyes. But I wish if only one day he does one of these in competition.
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- Mar 7, 2015
i would call the performance art part of it as entertainment... and everything you said below is entertainment too... funny enough, if the ISU were listening to you guys, figure skating would be off the olympics it needs to be a sport it doesn't mean that it's not entertaining... when i watch rugby my eye is delighted.... my soul is soothed, my emotions stirred and well... i will leave God out of it but you get my point I am sure.
it's like comparing arithmetic to mathematics .... there's a whole world of difference....
it needs to be a sport it doesn't mean that it's not entertaining... when i watch rugby my eye is delighted.... my soul is soothed, my emotions stirred and well... i will leave God out of it but you get my point I am sure. it's like comparing arithmetic to mathematics .... there's a whole world of difference....
Figure skating is, in part, performance art.. Obviously if you close your eyes you miss the performance.
I still think we ate working too hard. IMHO, the point of music is to charm the ear. The point of visual art is to delight the eye. I think we start to get in trouble when we wander too far from these basics. Michelle Kwan's skating delights my eye, soothes my soul, stirs my emotions, makes me feel like God's in His heaven and all's right with the world.
(Go Michelle!
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- Nov 30, 2014
:hpull:
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- Dec 25, 2012
Seems to me that he's playing with the idea of putting the 4t or 4s back in the front. --I wouldn't mind that. the Eagle sandwich 3A is a thing of ultimate beauty but if it is messing up his second half then he needs to change it to something he can do with perfect confidence.
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- Feb 13, 2014
At least maybe we won't have to suffer that troublesome 3lz3T... hopefully
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