2015 Cup of China Short Dance

[Abraxis12345]

I guess the judges are just going with whatever is triple meter and calling it a day. Chock and Bates switched from Dark Eyes, which was 3/4 in the arrangement they were using, to unchained melody, which is 12/8

 

[Snow63]

I guess the judges are just going with whatever is triple meter and calling it a day. Chock and Bates switched from Dark Eyes, which was 3/4 in the arrangement they were using, to unchained melody, which is 12/8

Yeah, that's a shame. Their 'Dark eyes' dance was great. But from what we've seen, even teams with 4/4 music don't get the deduction, so...

But rules are rules. Everyone should follow them, and if they don't, then they should be penalised. Everyone should be, Chock/Bates included.

 

[dorispulaski]

I guess the judges are just going with whatever is triple meter and calling it a day. Chock and Bates switched from Dark Eyes, which was 3/4 in the arrangement they were using, to unchained melody, which is 12/8

Actually, the part they were cited for by some judges or the referee, was the non waltz part of the dance, for rhythm that was more variable, in bpm, than the rules, not for the wrong time signature.

 

[Abraxis12345]

Actually, the part they were cited for by some judges or the referee, was the non waltz part of the dance, for rhythm that was more variable, in bpm, than the rules, not for the wrong time signature.

Right but they ultimately went with a waltz that wasn't 3/4.

 

[dorispulaski]

I guess the judges are just going with whatever is triple meter and calling it a day. Chock and Bates switched from Dark Eyes, which was 3/4 in the arrangement they were using, to unchained melody, which is 12/8

As with I&Z, I will be leaving this determination to the judges and the referees.

And, as with SkAm, they could suddenly announce they have changed it again. Crazy stuff.

 

[sam99]

Perhaps they felt validated by the fact that ballroom allows 6/8, despite there being no connection between the two sports? :confused2:

But it was not the first time this has happened. You should have heard the "wangos" that people did to the Golden Waltz. Just vile.

:dev2::angry1:

I'm sorry to say that i have a bigger problem with the 2nd part of (I/Z short dance )WHAT IS IT ?

 

[Snow63]

I'm sorry to say that i have a bigger problem with the 2nd part of (I/Z short dance )WHAT IS IT ?

It's a march.
What's wrong with it? I think it works as march okay, and the tempo is constant, so the requirements are met.

 

[sam99]

It's a march.
What's wrong with it? I think it works as march okay, and the tempo is constant, so the requirements are met.

my view it;s not a march

 

[Abraxis12345]

my view it;s not a march

You've never been in a marching band. I was the color guard of our high school marching band and the band had to play that song every single year *shudder*

 

[sam99]

You've never been in a marching band. I was the color guard of our high school marching band and the band had to play that song every single year *shudder*

Marching band excellent !!!!

take a look not all are marchs

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/10-mind-blowing-college-marching-band-cover-songs-20130917

love this one... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85sro7R1LIA


besides when you watch ....with or with music I/Z sd 2nd part what style comes across
to you ??

 

[LisaM]

Whether something is a march or not doesn't really have to do with anyone's view. It fits the requirements, so it can be used as a march.

 

[Ice Dance]

I know it's a different discipline, but judges didn't seem to freak out over Scimeka/Kneirim's Metallica short program (awarded first place at SA!)

A short dance is not at all similar to a short program. There is a required rhythm. There is a required pattern with mandated steps. There is a looooong history of winning dances depicting the required rhythm and style with exquisite mastery. I kind of LOVE that after all the pressure from TV networks (and penny pinchers) to eliminate compulsories, the dance world rebelled and stuck a CD right in the middle of the OD (and, of course, renamed it).

To me, I&Z's program doesn't attempt to portray a mastery of the required rhythm. Neither does G&P's. If you showed either program to a novice, I doubt that person would be able to tell you the program was a waltz. Whether these teams take the hit for that now or later in the season, at the end of the day, I wouldn't bet on either of these programs holding up against their close competition (yet to be determined?). If that message is going to be sent (and I strongly suspect that it will), then I&Z will be better off if it is sent now rather than later. You could say G&P have already been sent the message since they've finished behind the Shibs, Coomes & Buckland, Sinitsina & Katsalapov, and Chock & Bates in the SD.

W&P, Chock and Bates, and the Shibutanis all took a risk by flying across the ocean to compete internationally in their season debuts. (It's not like they couldn't have gone to the U.S. Classic). I think those teams went for a reason. Because they knew that the feedback would be legit and tougher than it would be at home.

Hubbell & Donahue and Ilinykh & Zhiganshin skated at home during the Challenger series. (Though H&D did debut at a domestic event in Canada, where they lost BTW). And Cappellini & Lanotte skated at home in their debut. I think we all have a right to be very curious to see how these teams' programs fair away from home on the GP.

 

[dorispulaski]

Just saying, but back in 1964, Mr. Ski played the tuba in the Coast Guard band at his station. They marched to Oh What A Beautiful Morning in the Atlantic City Fourth of July parade. Marching, as an activity, can be done to any music with a consistent beat. A march, as a dance, is supposed to have a consistent tempo, too. The two dances listed as marches in the tech reference, the Killian (which I always thought of as a folk dance rather than a march) lists this way:

Killian

Last Updated on Thursday, 12 April 2012 23:15
Music - March 2/4 and 4/4
Tempo - 58 measures of 2 beats per minute
- 29 measures of 4 beats per minute
-116 beats per minute
Pattern - Optional
Duration - The time required to skate 6 sequences is 50 sec.

and Fourteenstep which is unequivocally a march.

Fourteenstep

Music - March 6/8 or 2/4
Tempo - 56 measures of 2 beats per minutes
- 28 measures of 4 beats per minute
- 112 beats per minute

But you can also see that when the tech description spells out the requirements for tempo and time signature, they are very explicit about it. And if two different time signatures are allowed, they are both specified and the differing number of measures is also listed.

Here's what the judges and referees manual says:

Senior: The Pattern Dance Elements must be skated on the Waltz Rhythm, in any Waltz style. The Tempo of the music throughout the Pattern Dance Element must be constant and in accordance with the required Tempo of the Pattern Dance Ravensburger Waltz, i.e. 66 measures of three beats or 198 beats per minute, plus or minus 3 beats per minute.

Junior: The Pattern Dance Elements must be skated on the Waltz Rhythm, in any Waltz style. The Tempo of the Communication 1932 music throughout the Pattern Dance Elements must be constant and in accordance with the required Tempo of the Pattern Dance Starlight Waltz, i.e. 58 measures of three beats or 174 beats per minute, plus or minus 3 beats per minute. . The Partial Step Sequence must be skated on one of the other Rhythms selected for the season, in the style of that Rhythm. The tempo of the music throughout the Partial Step Sequence is not specified, but must be constant

 

[GF2445]

If you want to be really technical. Chock and bates music is still 6/8 but since they made some edits to put a strong beat every 3 beats, it sort of masks it.

But the way eighth notes (quavers) in compound and quarter notes (crotchets) simple time work are slightly different.
The feeling is different. Compound eighth notes in 6/8 have a propensity to sound faster than the quarter notes in a simpler 3/4 time signature.

This only disadvantages them when the Tech Panel assesses their key points.

P.S. I am so not used to using quarter notes, and half notes...I'm a crotchet, quaver sort of person.

 

[dorispulaski]

This is true. And in the questions section of the tech handbook, it mentions that adding beats to music to make it meet spec can be done. While it is not recommended policy, implication is it can work.

I&Z may have done the same by now, ftm.

IMO, the team most at risk is Hubbell/Donohue who are not competing here.

 

[Kittosuni]

FD Practice was today. Some info sent to me

1.C/B- very fast in the ice. Madison overdramatic in the facial. Energy of 2 skaters doesnt match. Very good music. Very nice dress from Madison
2.C/L- Her dress looks stiff and it looks like her top is going to come off???. Very good skating but slower
3. I/Z- Interesting dress minimal only. Head dress very nice. Very fast skating. Very tense and dramatic. Song one tone.
4. H/B- Ok skate did not stand. Slow in the ice.

 

[Lester]

Are you musician?

Well, it's not my day job or anything but I've done lots of music theory classes, I play the piano and I sing in a choir so I probably qualify Oh, and I've done ballet as a child

I've been thinking about the 6/8 issue and I am beginning to think that this meter might even make it difficult for skaters to execute the RW steps on the required beats because it has a different logic than 3/4, so I don't know how they managed to choreograph it and practice it for so long. I guess we shall see if that is the case with Elena & Ruslan tomorrow. And I guess we shall see if the judges will bring it up at all.

 

[Ice Dance]

And I guess we shall see if the judges will bring it up at all.

We might. Though we didn't see that the judges had brought up concerns about W&P and C&B's music at Finlandia and Nebelhorn while we were watching the competition. Only three weeks later.

 

[blue eyed birds]

Halina Gordon-Poltarek, as it has been reported, monitored the Gadbois teams before the Quebec event at which Hubbell/Donohue debuted their short dance. I share the concerns about their tempos, but while Gordon-Poltarek provided feedback that led some teams to make modifications to one program or another, she apparently either found no fault with H/D's short dance, or they opted to leave what they had. I'll be curious to see what happens at TEB.

As for wangos, Paul/Islam skated a Golden Waltz to the 3/4 time "La Cumparsita Vals" -- a version of the piece that already existed in waltz time, not one edited or specially-composed for their use -- and Virtue/Moir skated the GW component of their own wango to the 3/4 time waltz from Nights and Days. Not sure why I'm still taking up this cause five years later, but I do want to reiterate that information. There may have been some tempo-violating wangos that I'm forgetting, and some may not have liked the concept of pairing together those two dances even though the ISU offered it as an optional rhythm, but those two programs were in the clear as music requirements go.

 

[moon]

Halina G-P is traditionally easier on the dancers with their Technical Levels compared to H. Marron, and G. Chait who were at Skate Canada and are known to make tough assessments. We should see some better scores for the teams at CoC.