Yup... Chan has one gold already. If he got a bronze at TEB (behind the two men with much higher score after SP) - he would have overall 15 + 11 = 26 points. Thats a very good chance of getting to GPF. We are not saying Chan would have gotten gold at TEB, we are saying Chan had high chances to medal - and any medal would put him in GPF. Heck, even a 4th place with his gold as tiebreaker would give him some GPF chances.
A fair way to pick GPF finalists?
- Thread starter drivingmissdaisy
- Start date
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- Jun 21, 2003
After Michelle's escapade the ISU changed the rules to make sure that didn't happen again.
The original concept of the Grand Prix was that the winners of each of the six events would meet in a grand finale, winner take all. If someone won more than one event, then the field was filled out by second place winners, etc.The rules that Michelle competed under tried to honor that spirit by giving first place 15 points, but second place only 12, and so on down. Thus winning was heavily emphasized and getting, say , a second and a third -- boo, go home, who wants you?
After Michelle hoised them by their own petard, they raised the points for second, third, etc., and they also put in as a tie breaker that a skater who got her points from two different events won over a skater with just one event. (Before, the first tie breaker was highest placement in best event, so if you got a first and a nothing, that was better than two lower placements that added up to 15 points.)
With he CoP the second tie breaker is total CoP points. I suppose it would be possible for a skater to score as many points in one event as someone lsle scores in two, but I don't think this will ever actually happen.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Here are the rules for the Grand Prix.
http://static.isu.org/media/209550/gp-general-announcement-2015_16_final.pdf
There is no rule one way or the other covering the possibility that the governmental authority of the host country curtails the event after the short program because of safety concerns and national emergency. As far as I can see, the most general provisions of the ISU constitution now apply ( = Speedy can do whatever he wants.
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- Dec 21, 2011
While I agree with your most recent post that because nothing is explicitly written Speedy can do whatever he wants, and while I admit there is not explicit rule written, to me you say it yourself: there is a section of the rule book providing for contests in which skaters go in know in only one program will be preformed. The rest of the rule book pertains to contests where it is explicitly anticipated that 2 programs will be preformed. In fact, this is one of the key, main premises- that there are indeed two programs to be preformed, with two different sets of requirements, and that the final result is determined by the results of both of these programs. As it is explicit that the final result is determined by both programs, it does indeed seem logical to me that if both programs aren't preformed, there can be no final result- the rule book explicitly says that the final result is determined by the result of both programs, without making alternate provisions. To me this silence does speak.
Now I'm not actually one of the people who think this is what should happen here, but to me, yeah, it is the most logical interpretation of the rule book as it currently is written, and from a standpoint of pure logic, taking all emotion and fairness out of it, this is what it seems should theoretically happen.
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- Jun 21, 2003
I think there should be a free skate skate-off just among Chan, Aaron, and Tuktamysheva (but not Gilles and Poitier). They could get first, second and third and all three make the GP Final fair and square. :yes:
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2009
Glad I am not having to make the decision on this one! A lot of valid points have been raised and someone is going to get screwed no matter what the ultimate decision is from the ISU. Maybe the fairest choice is to screw everyone and not have a senior GPF this year. Hold the JGPF as planned and turn the senior event into a gala only event and treat it as a fundraiser for a memorial fund for Paris.
As someone else pointed out before, if they use the SPs, Patrick with 22 points and a victory, has a good chance to qualify. Last year Yuzuru qualified exactly in that same scenario, and I remember some other years of people qualifying with 22+victory. So Chan is more or less safe.
And there will be some fans that will criticize them regardless.Not sure this is the fair thing - some skaters support themselves/their families off their salaries/prize money. And why differentiate between what happened in Paris and other tragic events...I hate to say this, but I think we now live in a world where what happened in Paris is going to become the norm not the exception.
As someone else pointed out before, if they use the SPs, Patrick with 22 points and a victory, has a good chance to qualify. Last year Yuzuru qualified exactly in that same scenario, and I remember some other years of people qualifying with 22+victory. So Chan is more or less safe.
I think it really comes down to Jason Brown; if he is able to to win Silver at NHK, he would most likely bump Chan out of the GPF.
Security officials announce details of planned terrorists attack in Moscow. I won't be surprised if that event is cancelled too.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/russia-...terrorist-plot-against-moscow-public-transit/
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/russia-...terrorist-plot-against-moscow-public-transit/
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- Feb 23, 2014
Wow, maybe there is a real risk of the GPF being cancelled
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- Jul 31, 2014
Not sure this is the fair thing - some skaters support themselves/their families off their salaries/prize money. And why differentiate between what happened in Paris and other tragic events...I hate to say this, but I think we now live in a world where what happened in Paris is going to become the norm not the exception.
In many ways you likely are right, but not just to terrorism, but just as we live a more technologically dependent life. Had this happened during a natural disaster, the free could have been canceled. A major enough computer snafu at a power plant could in theory cut power for days and make the skate not feasible. As we add more infrastructure, there are more chances for it to fail. i would not be surprised if there are some areas that a bridge collapse could plunge the area into such chaos that the government calls off events. Stuff happens. We encounter a lot of solutions every day that if they fail can have profound effects.
The lesson should be to bloody have a plan in place! I hope they at least come up with some ideas.
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- Feb 27, 2012
Actually, at this point, the ISU has not yet said that Shoma "has won TEB" -- although he clearly won the SP at TEB.
Usually, the ISU bios and other pages are updated very promptly (often within hours) after completion of the GPs.
And the ISU usually issues a press release within hours to give a recap of those who won and earned medalists. No press release yet.
Shoma's ISU bio does not show any placement yet at 2015 TEB.
The ISU TEB page still links to a Men's entry list:
1 Patrick CHAN CAN 1
2 Yi WANG CHN 2
3 Chafik BESSEGHIER FRA 3
4 Romain PONSART FRA 3
5 Daisuke MURAKAMI JPN 4
6 Shoma UNO JPN 4
7 Denis TEN KAZ 5
8 Jin Seo KIM KOR 6
9 Maxim KOVTUN RUS 7
10 Alexander PETROV RUS 7
11 Max AARON USA 8
12.11.2015 11:40:51
http://www.isuresults.com/events/fsevent00051658.htm which links to http://www.isuresults.com/events/cat00028328.htm
2 Yi WANG CHN 2
3 Chafik BESSEGHIER FRA 3
4 Romain PONSART FRA 3
5 Daisuke MURAKAMI JPN 4
6 Shoma UNO JPN 4
7 Denis TEN KAZ 5
8 Jin Seo KIM KOR 6
9 Maxim KOVTUN RUS 7
10 Alexander PETROV RUS 7
11 Max AARON USA 8
12.11.2015 11:40:51
http://www.isuresults.com/events/fsevent00051658.htm which links to http://www.isuresults.com/events/cat00028328.htm
Usually by now, the TEB link above would show the final placements and scores -- as seen on the comparable Skate America page.
http://www.isuresults.com/events/fsevent00051648.htm which links to http://www.isuresults.com/events/cat00028320.htm
(I am not picking on Shoma. I'm sure the same is true for Madi/Zach; Gracie; and Tatiana/Maxim.)
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
^ The ISU hasn't decided yet how to handle it.
Actually, I am not hard-nosed about this. The argument of Talousai, El Henry, Mrs. P. and others that the TEB should just just be considered canceled, holds water to me (although I do not favor it.)
What I am opposed to is a solution that confuses fact with fantasy. A solution needs to be based on what actually happened, rather than on what we wish might happen or what we think is likely to happen in some parallel universe.
What actually happened is that the skaters skated the short program, after which Shoma is in first, etc., etc. What did not happen is Chan and Aaron pulled up their scores by skating a good long program. IMHO whatever the ISU decides must take these realities into account.
Actually, I am not hard-nosed about this. The argument of Talousai, El Henry, Mrs. P. and others that the TEB should just just be considered canceled, holds water to me (although I do not favor it.)
What I am opposed to is a solution that confuses fact with fantasy. A solution needs to be based on what actually happened, rather than on what we wish might happen or what we think is likely to happen in some parallel universe.
What actually happened is that the skaters skated the short program, after which Shoma is in first, etc., etc. What did not happen is Chan and Aaron pulled up their scores by skating a good long program. IMHO whatever the ISU decides must take these realities into account.
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- Nov 18, 2014
Okay, I'll just say it: I'm hoping they use SP results because my favorite ladies and men's skaters (Gracie and Shoma) both won the SP and would be in the GPF if they did that. I'm kind of embarrassed to admit that but I really hope that's the conclusion they come to.
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- Feb 27, 2012
I think we all know that the ISU has not decided how to handle the GPF qualification.
What has been murkier is whether anyone has (yet) "won" TEB this year. (As a separate issue from what "winning" would mean in terms of GPF qualification.)
I was quoting your own words -- "Shoma deserves 15 points because he won TEB" -- because I do think it is premature (as I think you now are agreeing?) to say that he has won TEB.
I will refrain from responding to the rest of your post so as not to go around in circles repeating why I utterly disagree with your opinion re who is fantasizing about what regarding a parallel universe, blah, blah, blah.
LOL that your list of realities neglected to mention that other winners of GPs have won based on both the SP and FS.
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- Jan 1, 2013
At least you're honest enough to admit it.
But Shoma was given the chance to take the fight to Max at Skate America after Shoma's poor SP. Do you not think Max deserves the same courtesy now that the roles are reversed?
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2014
Um...
I like Max too but Shoma won this SP. yes, it's unfortunate that he didn't have the chance to redeem himself, but what's done is done, and he didn't. It's sad, but there's nothing we can do about it now.
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2013
Shoma won the short program. This is not in dispute. What IS in dispute is the fact that some people are now trying to claim that Shoma won the event, by virtue of winning the SP. And that is very wrong.
Shoma had the opportunity to come back at Max at Skate America, and didn't we hear some ridiculously stupid bellyaching when the virtue of his short program saw him fall short? And as I said then: there are TWO programs. Max was at a disadvantage of his own making after the SP - but now he is at a worse one through no fault of his own, and yet people want to penalise him for it.
I still wonder if there would be so many people pushing for the SP results to be used if this had been Skate Canada...
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