Chan v. Hanyu: 2015-16

[HanDomi]

hehe... so why a chan vs hanyu thread when javier is the one to beat oh wait... must be a skating wife deal again

Well, right now there is no clear equal fight between anyone. Maybe Javier vs Chan , but Javier upping his short wants to run away from it. Hanyu is enjoying his time somewhere else right now. I hope Patrick will get up in this game and doesn't let himself to be left in the dust ... because young Uno wants to take his place too

 

[xibsuarz]

hehe... so why a chan vs hanyu thread when javier is the one to beat oh wait... must be a skating wife deal again

Because this thread was done before the season even began. No one knew how either man would do, people didn't even think Yuzuru would ever skate that layout clean one day. Same thing with the Liza vs Mao thread, many expected them to battle it out for gold and it's Evgenia who ended up on top.

 

[4everchan]

both those threads were simply made because of teh return of two stars, against the main competitor... so patrick vs yuzu, mao vs liza..... in mao vs liza... it was the returning star against the current WC... but already, with this thread, some people mentioned, why not make it chan vs javi since javi is the WC i am just making you all notice that javier was dismissed right away from the beginning of the year... and personally, I do not like dismissing skaters ... they all work hard, they all train hard... they dedicate their lives to the sport... and if one of them rises above the others, kuddos to him. I will be the first one to clap, whether is javier, yuzu, chan, shoma, anybody...

i am just mentioning the ERM factor of some fans.

Because this thread was done before the season even began. No one knew how either man would do, people didn't even think Yuzuru would ever skate that layout clean one day. Same thing with the Liza vs Mao thread, many expected them to battle it out for gold and it's Evgenia who ended up on top.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

and actually some people on this forum said that they never believed he could skate clean twice in a row....I wouldn't think that it is automatic that he will , from now on, never make a mistake again... that's why i pounce on comments saying : there's no more chan vs hanyu now because Javier has added a quad in his SP.... how often does javi skates both of his programs CLEAN ?

I'm sorry, but that is your only argument? Yuzuru just had 2 clean competitions in a row - that's better than Patrick ever did. Javier has been skating like a world champ all season, even if there were mistakes in between, he's been really strong overall.

Obviously, they might make mistakes and then Patrick can capitalize on it - but that's not what a real rivalry is, as in skaters being on equal footing. Yuzuru doesn't even need to be clean to beat a perfect Patrick as of now (and that is the real game changer). He deserves to be considered in his own league, and Javi deserves to be considered to be on Patricks level at least. That's what they've been skating like this season. I'm not claiming to have a crystal ball and predict all the future podiums, but considering potential and latest results, Yuzu and to a lesser extent Javi are leaving Patrick behind. No mystified "everything is possible" is going to change that.

 

[Bonesfan]

Maybe it's time to change the thread title to Patrick, Javi, Yuzu, Shoma, D10.......but not D5 (mid-season Denis Ten)

 

[4everchan]

I'm sorry, but that is your only argument? Yuzuru just had 2 clean competitions in a row - that's better than Patrick ever did. Javier has been skating like a world champ all season, even if there were mistakes in between, he's been really strong overall.

Obviously, they might make mistakes and then Patrick can capitalize on it - but that's not what a real rivalry is, as in skaters being on equal footing. Yuzuru doesn't even need to be clean to beat a perfect Patrick as of now (and that is the real game changer). He deserves to be considered in his own league, and Javi deserves to be considered to be on Patricks level at least. That's what they've been skating like this season. I'm not claiming to have a crystal ball and predict all the future podiums, but considering potential and latest results, Yuzu and to a lesser extent Javi are leaving Patrick behind. No mystified "everything is possible" is going to change that.

as someone in life who one day was doing great, and one day later had a career threatening injury, i take things with a grain of salt... we don't know what can happen tomorrow... and that can be great or bad... and that's why i dislike your comments ... they don't respect the uncertainties of life....saying things like

That's another nail in the coffin of the Yuzu vs. Pat thing I'd say.

just irks me.... not only because it's a crystal ball like comment but because of the nail in the coffin expression... that's a very negative image....

 

[Li'Kitsu]

as someone in life who one day was doing great, and one day later had a career threatening injury, i take things with a grain of salt... we don't know what can happen tomorrow... and that can be great or bad... and that's why i dislike your comments ... they don't respect the uncertainties of life....saying things like

Oh okay, so then we should never discuss anything anymore because every skater at any point in his/her career can just have a career ending injury and every point is moot. Nobody is a favorite for anything, because how can we be sure they'll be at the comp in 2 weeks. Than you should have really complained about this thread to begin with.

I didn't mean the expression "nail in the coffin" in any overblown negative way, but simply as a paraphrasing. I'm sorry if the wording irks you, but I stand by the meaning behind it.

 

[4everchan]

Oh okay, so then we should never discuss anything anymore because every skater at any point in his/her career can just have a career ending injury and every point is moot. Nobody is a favorite for anything, because how can we be sure they'll be at the comp in 2 weeks. Than you should have really complained about this thread to begin with.

I didn't mean the expression "nail in the coffin" in any overblown negative way, but simply as a paraphrasing. I'm sorry if the wording irks you, but I stand by the meaning behind it.

this may be a level of language issue. Some fans here use a language that is definitive and reducing.... and you have just done it again saying that "then we should never discuss anything again".... it's not all black or white.... nothing is set in stone... we can certainly discuss things... but there is a way to do it that is not reducing and dismissive to others. YUZU is the king right now. We all agree. But there's no point writing off another skater right away.... who is writing off MAO? She had an awful outing at GPF... does that mean that she's done???? Nobody is really freaking out and her VS thread hasn't been active either since Liza wasn't even at GPF... is it the end of their 3A rivalry? I don't think so... but in this thread, comments like yours and others, are proclaiming that Chan is done... or that he is no longer even a main rival... how do you know? I certainly can't tell.... I am hoping that we will have many rivalries with many skaters over the next years.... What I find boring in a sport is when there is no competition.... like when we had ice dance in 6.0 era... we knew ahead of time who would win... that was boring.... Ice dance has been the most tight and exciting discipline this year... exactly because we don't know what will happen.... it's just a different way to look at things... and please be open and respect that we don't all look at things the way you do.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

No, I have not written of Patrick at all. The relation between Yuzu and Patrick wasn't even my main point at the start, but the fact that Javi ultimately deserves to be considered just as much, such ending the "Yuzu vs. Patrick" thing as the main question regarding competition outcomes.

And that's the last thing I'm saying about this, because you're over blowing my original statement in a very weird way.

 

[4everchan]

No, I have not written of Patrick at all. The relation between Yuzu and Patrick wasn't even my main point at the start, but the fact that Javi ultimately deserves to be considered just as much, such ending the "Yuzu vs. Patrick" thing as the main question regarding competition outcomes.

And that's the last thing I'm saying about this, because you're over blowing my original statement in a very weird way.

another definitive and dismissive approach coupled with a blame... this is exactly how I have been describing your posts .... there is no need to bring in Patrick in the Javi vs Yuzu rivalry.... that's exactly why I told you I felt it was wrong... you can talk about guys who have two quads in their SP all you wish for...in another thread perhaps... Rejoicing for Javi not making this about Chan Vs Hanyu is the true way to be a great figure skating fan.

 

[Mathman]

Who is writing off MAO?

Not me! I have decided to let her win 2016 Worlds. But not 2017 Worlds because that would put her even with Michelle Kwan (sacrilege).

 

[4everchan]

haha ... at least you recognize your biases... gotta appreciate that in you! I hope Mao gets healthy for the rest of the season.

Not me! I have decided to let her win 2016 Worlds. But not 2017 Worlds because that would put her even with Michelle Kwan (sacrilege).

 

[Rissa]

this may be a level of language issue. Some fans here use a language that is definitive and reducing.... and you have just done it again saying that "then we should never discuss anything again".... it's not all black or white.... nothing is set in stone... we can certainly discuss things... but there is a way to do it that is not reducing and dismissive to others. YUZU is the king right now. We all agree. But there's no point writing off another skater right away.... who is writing off MAO? She had an awful outing at GPF... does that mean that she's done???? Nobody is really freaking out and her VS thread hasn't been active either since Liza wasn't even at GPF... is it the end of their 3A rivalry? I don't think so... but in this thread, comments like yours and others, are proclaiming that Chan is done... or that he is no longer even a main rival... how do you know? I certainly can't tell.... I am hoping that we will have many rivalries with many skaters over the next years.... What I find boring in a sport is when there is no competition.... like when we had ice dance in 6.0 era... we knew ahead of time who would win... that was boring.... Ice dance has been the most tight and exciting discipline this year... exactly because we don't know what will happen.... it's just a different way to look at things... and please be open and respect that we don't all look at things the way you do.

Here's the difference between Patrick and Mao: the reason why nobody is writing off Mao yet is that her competitors haven't surpassed her technically yet. She still has her 3A and other jumps and she's still a strong candidate for gold if clean. Patrick on the other hand is way behind on the tech as compared to a few of his competitors, most notably Hanyu and Fernandez who both are capable of turning in similar PCS.

 

[da96103]

That's great news, was about time! Now continue to rock that SP and give Yuzu a fight, Javi!

That's another nail in the coffin of the Yuzu vs. Pat thing I'd say.

Here, Mr Chan, a nice hammer for you to take out the nail. Use the forked head. (moments later) What are you doing? You are hitting the nail deeper with the flat head.

 

[Sydney Rose]

When I first heard that Javi was doing a two quad SP, I didn't just think of Patrick; I also thought of Jason Brown. He & Kori were working toward the 2018 Olympics and this can't be good news for them.

Phil Hersh was right to be concerned about the American men.

 

[HanDomi]

When I first heard that Javi was doing a two quad SP, I didn't just think of Patrick; I also thought of Jason Brown. He & Kori were working toward the 2018 Olympics and this can't be good news for them.

Phil Hersh was right to be concerned about the American men.

Nathan is working on multiple quads too

 

[scintillant]

I don't understand why this is considered a rivalry, when one has to wait for the other to make multiple mistakes or get injured to win...
Of course, if Patrick decides to up his tech content it will be another story, but ever since he came back, he's been kind of dismissive about that, saying he doesn't need that to win.
In the latest interview he talked about adding another quad or 3A,(finally!) but even then he will be waiting for Yuzu, Javi etc to make mistakes. I'm not writing him off, but if hoping for his win means hoing for others to make mistakes or get injured, I don't think it's a healthy rivalry, or a-VS-thread-worthy one.

 

[wookchub]

I don't understand why this is considered a rivalry, when one has to wait for the other to make multiple mistakes or get injured to win...
Of course, if Patrick decides to up his tech content it will be another story, but ever since he came back, he's been kind of dismissive about that, saying he doesn't need that to win.
In the latest interview he talked about adding another quad or 3A,(finally!) but even then he will be waiting for Yuzu, Javi etc to make mistakes. I'm not writing him off, but if hoping for his win means hoing for others to make mistakes or get injured, I don't think it's a healthy rivalry, or a-VS-thread-worthy one.

I 100% agree with this! Worlds would have to be a splat-fest in order for Patrick to win with his current layout and no one wants to watch that. I sincerely hope he works to increase his tech content because as Yuzuru says, there's nothing better than winning when everyone skates their best. That was part of why the mens GPF was so much fun to watch this year.

 

[MaxSwagg]

I don't understand why this is considered a rivalry, when one has to wait for the other to make multiple mistakes or get injured to win...
Of course, if Patrick decides to up his tech content it will be another story, but ever since he came back, he's been kind of dismissive about that, saying he doesn't need that to win.
In the latest interview he talked about adding another quad or 3A,(finally!) but even then he will be waiting for Yuzu, Javi etc to make mistakes. I'm not writing him off, but if hoping for his win means hoing for others to make mistakes or get injured, I don't think it's a healthy rivalry, or a-VS-thread-worthy one.

Well, at the time the thread was started it was still very much a rivalry. As of late...it's really just Hanyu v. Hanyu.

 

[4everchan]

agree with your comment. and as of tomorrow.... and i am not saying december 20th... but maybe september 1st, 2016... who knows what we will witness.... but when i say stuff like this... people think i am crazy... like it's a done deal.. there is only ONE figure skater left on the planet... forever...

Well, at the time the thread was started it was still very much a rivalry. As of late...it's really just Hanyu v. Hanyu.