2016 World Championships Ladies Free Skate

[Tolstoj]

But this year was the year of the Firebird

Quick poll:

Am i the only one who appreciated more 2013-2014 Sleeping Beauty LP than this Firebird?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxIiJ5_cibA

I've heard everywhere that this is the best Gracie program ever and i completely disagree with this statement.

 

[Rissa]

I still can't believe Mao didn't ATLEAST medal for the amaazing performance she delivered last night, it seems like we viewers and the audience were watching something and the judges were watching something else when i look at her scores, and i'm still speechless when i think of how deflated her scores were at this event and the very strange tech calls she got here, something is really off with the scores she has been receiving, it just feels like they deliberately tried everything to keep her away from the medals, and i still cant get over how many points Ashley scores and Gracies suddenly rised at this event, the results and scores seem soo random and unpredictable!

I don't understand how it's posssible to have such blinders on. Mao's FS was hardly great - good but not great - and she had messed up her short. The top 3 all laid down much better performances than Mao, twice. No matter how you cut it, there's no way she deserved a podium given how excellent her competitors were. The only injustice was overscoring Gracie on the PCS in the FS as compared to Mao, Mao should have had second not third PCS of the night, but it wasn't PCS that pushed Mao down, it was the tech and the short.

 

[narcissa]

Not really, in BV Sotnikova's program was objectively significantly more difficult than Yuna's and she had one triple more, after all. But most tend to enjoy ignoring this fact. Yuna winning would likely have been more controversial(ignoring the home field factor) as she had 1 triple less.

It would be Sochi-level home cooking if Medvedeva had popped a jump and Ashley then won. Which most people would likely call justified and Medvedeva would be over scored and winning unfairly if she in that case won. Funny how the tables would turn, eh?

Seriously? Yuna winning would have been more controversial than Adelina winning? What are you smoking? Haha

 

[OS]

Can someone explain this bear thing? I am completely confused... is there a bear in Madonna's WE?!! Hmmm~~~ :think:

 

[NoStefaniaNo]

To those who said Gracie should be mad at herself, I just saw this brief interview where she seems like she is just about done.

Even the reporter is like, "Damn gurrrll..."

Her reaction is almost heartbreaking. I am not really a fan of her skating, but I hope for her sake that she can find a way to be kinder to herself.

 

[Mathman]

There was nothing remotely controversial about the judging of this event. (OK, maybe Rodeghiero and Kuchvalka could be switched around.)

 

[Shayuki]

Quick poll:

Am i the only one who appreciated more 2013-2014 Moonlight Sonata LP than this Firebird?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxIiJ5_cibA

I've heard everywhere that this is the best Gracie program ever and i completely disagree with this statement.

People really enjoy her laying eggs, I guess.

I actually think that her SP is rather alright, don't feel her FS in the slightest.

 

[OS]

Not really, in BV Sotnikova's program was objectively significantly more difficult than Yuna's and she had one triple more, after all. But most tend to enjoy ignoring this fact. Yuna winning would likely have been more controversial(ignoring the home field factor) as she had 1 triple less.

It would be Sochi-level home cooking if Medvedeva had popped a jump and Ashley then won. Which most people would likely call justified and Medvedeva would be over scored and winning unfairly if she in that case won. Funny how the tables would turn, eh?

What? 3t3t vs 3lz3t in the short? And in the LP Yuna had 1x 2A more. If you want to go objective.. how the heck is Adelina objectively better in PCS than any of the top ladies including Mao? And before anyone go on and on about 7 triples, Joanne had 7 triples at Vancouver too.

I have an interesting question pose to the forum, if Evegenia was to perform this at Vancouver, I am genuinely curious if where she would have ranked. I'd put her behind Mirai, for having even lesser of a reputation here there, with no half way bonuses, and no official tano goes.

 

[Su50]

Quick poll:

Am i the only one who appreciated more 2013-2014 Moonlight Sonata LP than this Firebird?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxIiJ5_cibA

I've heard everywhere that this is the best Gracie program ever and i completely disagree with this statement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSB5uXJC_6E

 

[Tolstoj]

What? 3t3t vs 3lz3t in the short? And in the LP Yuna had 1x 2A more. And before anyone go on and on about 7 triples, Joanne had 7 triples at Vancouver too.

I have an interesting question pose to the forum, if Evegenia was to perform this at Vancouver, I am genuinely curious if how much she would have ranked. I'd put her behind Mirai even, for having even lesser of a reputation here there, with no half way bonuses, and no official tano goes.

If Evgenia was to perform this at Vancouver she would have won the TES, because no one was trying something like this (two 3-3 and all the three jumps in the SP in 2nd half)... but programs are designed in order to compete with the current rules...

To me with today's rules Mao Asada would have beaten Yuna Kim so many times and maybe even at Vancouver.

 

[Ophelia]

Also, no one is waxing poetics. PCS should be scored relatively and it's not like most of the other skaters don't decelerate going into jumps or skate all that faster either, with the exception of Anna. Gracie is fast but she made major mistakes. No one was skating at the speed of a Kostner so the gap in PCS, esp skating skills should be debated.

Even Elizabet, who skated right after Asada, appeared noticeably faster.

Asada was just not the most memorable, live. You can disagree all you want and try to rationalize through fancams, but that was the feeling of the ppl in my group. If this is how she always projects across ice, it makes sense why her PCS was usually lower than Kostner/Kim's.

I do think she was more floaty and graceful than all the other skaters there, with Miyahara being a close second.

 

[Shayuki]

What? 3t3t vs 3lz3t in the short? And in the LP Yuna had 1x 2A more. If you want to go objective.. how the heck is Adelina objectively better in PCS than any of the top ladies including Mao? And before anyone go on and on about 7 triples, Joanne had 7 triples at Vancouver too.

I have an interesting question pose to the forum, if Evegenia was to perform this at Vancouver, I am genuinely curious if how much she would have ranked. I'd put her behind Mirai even, for having even lesser of a reputation here there, with no half way bonuses, and no official tano goes.

Yuna certainly is stronger in SP, the fact that she has no 3Lo doesn't matter there. But meh, it's not like it was out of thin air. Sotnikova got almost 70 PCS in Europeans with a mistake-ridden program so getting a few more than that with a rather clean one is rather logical. Perhaps Sotnikova shouldn't have won overall, I'm not sure. But she should have won the FS segment in my opinion. In the SP by the way, Sotnikova also gains 0.3+0.6=0.9 points off lost levels by Kim Yuna and lost levels in spins in both SP and FS and especially steps(skating skills) should in my opinion still reflect partially in PCS as well, just like scratchy jump landings do. Now I'll certainly admit that Sotnikova was slightly over scored, but was she 5+ points over scored while accounting for natural Olympics inflation? Not in my opinion and as I said, she had 1 triple more. Kim didn't have 1 2A more, she had 1 2T more when compared to Sotnikova's 3Lo. That's a 3.7 point difference right there.

As for Medvedeva, Vancouver was a bit different. Back then you could do 3 2As so having only 6 triples didn't make as much of a difference so skaters like Yuna who lack one of the triples had a crutch they could take advantage of. The GOE system also awarded more points, so if she was scored exactly the same back then as now, her actual score would be a few points higher. Then there's the spiral sequence.

For the record, in my opinion, she'd easily have won that competition with the exact same skate(alterations for spirals).

 

[OS]

If Evgenia was to perform this at Vancouver she would have won the TES, because no one was trying something like this (two 3-3 and all the three jumps in the SP in 2nd half)... but programs are designed in order to compete with the current rules...

To me with today's rules Mao Asada would have beaten Yuna Kim so many times and maybe even at Vancouver.

If they had that rule, do you honestly think Yuna Kim with the most consistent difficult trip triples in history wouldn't have devised that strategy too? you really don't think she is capable of putting all her jumps at the back in the 2nd half in a SP, or do you think she chose not to because that is 'suppose' to harm PCS score for imbalanced poor choreography, but for some reason wasn't penalised here. Likewise, had Evegenia competed under the same rule, do you think her triples = kim's triples in quality and execution regardless of the GOE standard of the day.

Mao had her chances, she did not deliver. If we could all have rules in our favour and talk about scores in theory, yeah Mao could have everything she need to be the best in the world, but that is not what happend. It is a competition. You still have to deliver when it count.

 

[jenaj]

Quick poll:

Am i the only one who appreciated more 2013-2014 Moonlight Sonata LP than this Firebird?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxIiJ5_cibA

I've heard everywhere that this is the best Gracie program ever and i completely disagree with this statement.

That's Sleeping Beauty, not Moonlight Sonata.

 

[Shayuki]

If they had that rule, do you honestly think Yuna Kim with the most consistent difficult trip triples in history wouldn't have devised that strategy too? you really don't think she is capable of putting all her jumps at the back in the 2nd half in a SP, or do you think she chose not to because that is 'suppose' to harm PCS score for imbalanced poor choreography, but for some reason wasn't penalised here. Likewise, had Evegenia competed under the same rule, do you think her tripless = kim's triples in quality and execution regardless of the GOE standard of the day.

Mao had her chances, she did not deliver. If we could all have rules in our favour and talk about scores in theory, yeah Mao has could have everything she need to be best in the world, but that is not what happend. It is a competition. You still have to deliver when it counts.

Yuna Kim with the most consistently lacking 3Lo, you mean?

I really think that you're letting nostalgia cloud your vision here.

This is such an involved choreography with difficult elements that it would be even MORE in the spotlight in Vancouver even if Yuna could mask her lack of 3Lo with a third 2A for a significantly lower penalty.

 

[jenaj]

Just looking at the ice coverage, you get a reliable sense of their speed, and it seems like the only one with the goods is Anna. Evgenia, especially, is jumping from a crawl and it's only due to her body shape that she can muscle through them so prettily. That kind of technique, we know, simply doesn't outwit puberty. We've seen it enough times.

She's nearly 17, so she's already past puberty.

 

[Ophelia]

You have to compare apples to apples, not apples to oranges.

If Evegnia competed with this program at Vancouver, then suffice to say it everyone else would've drawn up different jump layouts to maximize points under a different set of rules.

 

[rosy14]

Let's not pretend that's somehow equatable. Kovtun disappeared in a weak showing by the men while Elena still managed to make top 6 in the deepest field ever. She skated two clean programs. She'll be back next year. This result is probably the worst for Tuktamysheva-- radionova, Pogorilaya, and Medvedeva all have recent world medals. She will have to earn her spot back next year, not even 4th at nationals will do.

I'd be not so sure. Things happen. Who would have predicted Yulia out from Europeans and Worlds for two years in a row? Radio is growing, up to...? And Med will start to grow too, so perhaps, hopefully not, but who knows, can have issues. Liza has just once made a comeback, so she can be again very, very competitive. And perhpas Gracie matures and learns once for all to keep her nerves stiff.

 

[Mathman]

I do think [Mao] was more floaty and graceful than all the other skaters there,…

:yes:

 

[Tolstoj]

If they had that rule, do you honestly think Yuna Kim with the most consistent difficult trip triples in history wouldn't have devised that strategy too? you really don't think she is capable of putting all her jumps at the back in the 2nd half, or do you think she chose not to because that is 'suppose' to harm PCS score for imbalanced and poor choreography, but for some reason wasn't penalised here. Likewise, had Evegenia competed under the same rule, do you think her tripless = kim's triples in quality and execution regardless of the GOE standard of the day.

Mao had her chances, she did not deliver. If we could all have rules in our favour and talk about scores in theory, yeah Mao has could have everything she need to be best in the world, but that is not what happend. It is a competition. You still have to deliver when it counts.

Actually for many years Yuna hadn't the most difficult program technically speaking, even her spins weren't the best. Yuna became the star of FS thanks to a really solid technique, her consistency for that time (now most of the top contenders are that consistent), and the artistry.

Mao had the reputation of a great skater but cold, she was never rewarded in the artistry, despite some of her programs were surely the most demanding (i remember some insane Tarasova's footwork sequence)