Iconic jump combination | Page 10 | Golden Skate

Iconic jump combination

Petrenko's 3A did not have "low quality going in and out". You're just being ridiculous. The landing had good flow going out, there was plenty of speed, and he even did a transition into it. Really, stop being blind, look - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QimoBJwAdbE&t=38s

Nor did it simply have "good height" as you try to ascribe. It had SUPER height. Distance too. You're also ignoring how the rotation is completed entirely in the air, landing with room to spare, the free leg sweeping down and out beautifully. These are all important features. It's not "basically a +1 GOE jump". That was a +3 GOE right there. The jump combo would be a +2 because it didn't have as much speed or the entry, but still beautifully executed with the position, the size, the fullness of the rotation. It went with the timing of the saxophone clause in the music too.
 
Individual aside, I don't see how anyone can say Petrenko is higher or has more distance compare to Hanyu. Has anyone seen both of them live? Obviously I haven't, but I did see live in Boston and there is no doubt currently Hanyu has by far the best 3A (in and out of combination), the best height, the best distance, the best air position, the best speed... He's doing it with difficult footwork that others can not do and he sells it with such ease and aplomb, it's unbelievable. Why can't people give credit where credit is due?
 
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Individual aside, I don't see how anyone can say Petrenko is higher or has more distance compare to Hanyu. Has anyone seen both of them live? Obviously I haven't, but I did see live in Boston and there is no doubt currently Hanyu has by far the best 3A (in and out of combination), the best height, the best distance, the best air position, the best speed... He's doing it with difficult footwork that others can not do and he sells it with such ease and aplomb, it's unbelievable. Why can't people give credit where credit is due?

Nope, his wasn't even the best in Boston. Max's got far better height, distance, speed, flow in and out, AND you'd never see his core collapsing on the landing. Even Fernandez's were better in the free skate I thought.

Ha, while hunting for video of Ilia's 3A out of spreadeagle, I found an even better example of his flawless 3A-3T.
 
Nope, his wasn't even the best in Boston. Max's got far better height, distance, speed, flow in and out, AND you'd never see his core collapsing on the landing. Even Fernandez's were better in the free skate I thought.

Ha, while hunting for video of Ilia's 3A out of spreadeagle, I found an even better example of his flawless 3A-3T.

This is about things that are iconic so I'm not sure why Max Aaron is being brought up in this thread. And the 3A is arguably Fernandez's worst jump. OF COURSE his were better in the free skate (well, aside from Hanyu's combination). Also it's important to note that Javier has no transitions into them, does a simple 3A+2T and does them both in the first half of the program. They cover very little distance comparatively.
 
Why can't people give credit where credit is due?

I'm wondering the same thing. People are trying to ignore universal jump mechanics and the accomplishments of others, in order to serve their own fandom. Part of this quality in jumps that I am talking about is described here - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballon_(ballet). You get that quality via the method I have been talking about - jumping up, then focusing the rotation to its maximum velocity, and then breaking out of the rotation before landing. This is objectively more difficult to achieve in a jump, thus it should be worth something.

It's displayed really well in Ilia Kulik's 3Loop in the link that was just posted - Ilia Kulik 3Loop - look at how the jump seamlessly lifts into the air, quickly twirls at the top, and then "floats" down. This kind of jumping has been rather lost in skating in the past years, because the focus has been on "OMG transitions", more jump combinations, more spin positions, more footwork. So instead of putting in the time and energy to get into an ideal body position and deliver the jump itself to maximum quality, it's instead about busy entrances and exits, just getting the rotation done however you can.

A perfect point of comparison is the way Hanyu did his 3Loop in this past year's program - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muZD0zBYQGU&t=4m3s - he's doing this random assortment of steps and an edge pull going into the jump, because the idea is "look at how much more is in my program". The jump itself though? It's not special. It's just there because a jump is required, it isn't creating any kind of particular look or feeling, nor displaying a mastery of jumping technique.

Also it's important to note that Javier has no transitions into them.

Not true, Fernandez has been doing transitions into his 3A ever since the 2012-2013 season, particularly doing a LOT of steps into his 3A in the SP the past couple years.
 
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It doesn't matter "why" people are not jumping as much like that anymore, those qualities will always be objectively commendable.
I am not sure about that. Fans who growing up watching Yuna Kim might think her jumps (and neat air position) look better than Midori Ito's jumps even though Midori had the 3A and incredible height. Main reason is because Yuna's jumping style looks more refined and more neat. Midori was great and all but the leg wrapped might put them off. Same with the skaters you have listed above like Yagudin, Petrenko, Kulik etc... Some people prefer the new style of jumping with long arc and tight air position with free leg releasing late because it fits their ideal more. I also have talked with fans who followed the old generation of skaters for long, and some of them also say they prefer the new way.

As you say, it takes more energy to jump like that; it's difficult and requires strength and skill, an athletic feat. This is exactly why that kind of jumping should be worth the most points, in terms of individual jump elements themselves. If people want to make their jumps smaller and less airy in order to include more transitions, then they are simply transferring their expenditure of energy (and their point gaining) from one area to another (jump GOE vs. Transitions score). So then it becomes a debate on exactly which approach should be worth more points.
As Mathman has said, when you have Quad lutz and you have to spend most of your energy for it, it's not a suprised other jumps you do are not as powerful.

I love Yagudin hell a lot, but I don't think Yagudin can perform the modern's top programs with 3/4 quads + two 3A in combos + transitions + various spins + step sequence + choreo sequence etc... and still make his jumps look as huge as the old days. How can you jump a 3A which is like 1 metre height when they have other quads + big elements, don't you think?

Jumps in second half will often be smaller than jumps in the first half, it's common sense isn't it?

If you want skaters to show off their highest biggest jumps like the old days then better to tell them to front load all the jumps. However the current system prefer backloading. If anything, the system has changed, so the technique, the coaching and the stratergy all have changed accordingly. We can't go back to when most skaters setting up the whole rink for their biggest trick (some of them still do, yeah... but it is not recomended). Audience will feel like they're preparing for too long. The new style is a trend we can't undo.
 
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It's displayed really well in Ilia Kulik's 3Loop in the link that was just posted - Ilia Kulik 3Loop - look at how the jump seamlessly lifts into the air, quickly twirls at the top, and then "floats" down. This kind of jumping has been rather lost in skating in the past years, because the focus has been on "OMG transitions", more jump combinations, more spin positions, more footwork. So instead of putting in the time and energy to get into an ideal body position and deliver the jump itself to maximum quality, it's instead about busy entrances and exits, just getting the rotation done however you can.
Where is the argument that the ultimate of figure skating means you needs to master the blade control? Isn't adding more transitions will force skater to train more basic moves than just doing the jumps, especially when they have abolished the figure round? More jump combinations mean more varieties and less repeating the same kind of layout? The old jumping style makes it more exhausting, thus skaters have not much energy left fot the other elements they're required to do. You can't have everything. And the current system has been designed so they could get everything as much as possible.

And yet, even in the old days you have the like of Tara Lipninski winning Olympic :palmf: so it's not like the explosive jumping technique (but cost you too much energy) was much more treasured in the first place.

And I personally don't think that a huge jump which has a LOOOOOOONG set up is anything near ideal. It is beautiful yes, but is it effective and advanced? No IMO. Because it cost them too much energy to do the rest.

This kind of old vs new style reminds me of what's constantly a debate in classical music world. Old opera singers don't like acting, they care not about acting and on ice they're on the stage they stood there like statues to prepare their breath so their voice quality will be in the very best condition. But the new opera singers are required more, they must act, they must dance at the same time they must sing well. Why? Because the audience prefer it that way. The famous opera singer Renée Fleming once said: "Audiences now adays they want more and more, they want shows!" And that's why the new generations of opera singers MUST adopt. They must train in different way, practice with different technique etc... so their art can survive.

If you prefer the old style, it's ok, it's your preference. But you have to accept the fact the old style is not that universal used anymore. And there is nothing horrible about it. And the new generation of fans and audiences might prefer the new style than the old style. The technique has changed, the new style now is in favor. That's all.
 
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^^ your knowledge of opera is a bit flawed... sorry to say....

opera's origin comes from theatre. most of its first performers were actors who could perhaps sing.... it's relatively recent in the history of opera that sound comes first... and well, right now, casting plays a big role so appearance is more and more important.

regarding having to give shows to the audience: well... that's because in the 19th century, operas were done in grand style.... for instance in Aida, you would actually have elephants on stage... but that costs a lot of peanuts so nowadays, it's no longer done... so right now, there is less show than a century ago... so singers are asked to be more physical on stage.... to compensate for all the stuff that is no longer offered by lack of funds, from the animals, to the ballet interludes, etc.

The new generation of singers MUST adopt
;) nice typo there :)

technique in music has changed a lot, for the best, for longer careers, for bigger more powerful sound, for better control as people have studied the physiology of singing... singers do train in better ways, producing better results.... so it's kind of weird that the new generation of skaters are better all around skaters but jump less high for instance...

and finally, there is no need to make a case for "new figure skating" things are evolving yes. We are all fans of figure skating.... the only problem is that when some of us prefer something that happened back then, a few people pounce on us saying but so and so does it in the middle of his program or with a lot of complex and tiring transitions.

We know this. We watch the same sport. We value it. However, in a thread about how iconic is a jump combo, why can't we have the leisure of bringing up people from previous eras? We like Renée Fleming. We like Nathalie Dessay. But can we say that the Callas was iconic? It's not because she's from the previous generation and worked in other conditions that her talent needs to be discarded.....
 
^^ your knowledge of opera is a bit flawed... sorry to say....

opera's origin comes from theatre. most of its first performers were actors who could perhaps sing.... it's relatively recent in the history of opera that sound comes first... and well, right now, casting plays a big role so appearance is more and more important.

regarding having to give shows to the audience: well... that's because in the 19th century, operas were done in grand style.... for instance in Aida, you would actually have elephants on stage... but that costs a lot of peanuts so nowadays, it's no longer done... so right now, there is less show than a century ago... so singers are asked to be more physical on stage.... to compensate for all the stuff that is no longer offered by lack of funds, from the animals, to the ballet interludes, etc.

I respect your input. However I don't think you get my point, or maybe you misunderstood it. When I refer to the old generations of opera singers, I meant the generation that still have some recordings that last till this day (unless you think I mentioned those who died before recording industry existed). I also like Callas, Caballé and all the old names (but sorry I never get Caruso). And honestly I still listen to the older geneations more than the current one. So my post is not to dismish the greatness they have archived in the past. The golden geneation of opera singers did act and sing well at the prime, but with all my respect I don't think they were required to do the same kind of acting as today (not to mention all the training and media events). And no, there are a lot of grand production for famous opera these days too, in case you haven't forgot the like of MET. If we compare the older productions to the current style of productions, you see the difference. And frankly, even the singers' looks are different too.

;) nice typo there :)
technique in music has changed a lot, for the best, for longer careers, for bigger more powerful sound, for better control as people have studied the physiology of singing... singers do train in better ways, producing better results.... so it's kind of weird that the new generation of skaters are better all around skaters but jump less high for instance...
Many older skaters jump high but LESS ice coverage than the current skaters. Please take note that MANY of the current skaters jump far across the ice than the older skaters. Take Patrick Chan for example, is his quad toe less impressive than other men during 90s to early 2000s? I don't think so. But do his jumps look different? YES. I don't think the majority of older skaters were more talented or stronger than the current geneation. They were just trained DIFFERENTLY. They jump longer and add more transitions. It is UNFAIR to expect them to jump as HIGH but at the same time they must jump LONGER and have more transitions. There is only so much human body can do.

and finally, there is no need to make a case for "new figure skating" things are evolving yes. We are all fans of figure skating.... the only problem is that when some of us prefer something that happened back then, a few people pounce on us saying but so and so does it in the middle of his program or with a lot of complex and tiring transitions.

We know this. We watch the same sport. We value it. However, in a thread about how iconic is a jump combo, why can't we have the leisure of bringing up people from previous eras? We like Renée Fleming. We like Nathalie Dessay. But can we say that the Callas was iconic? It's not because she's from the previous generation and worked in other conditions that her talent needs to be discarded.....

My point is, of course we respect the old style. However we don't get why the old style must be hailed as the ultimate goal.

Same with opera, I don't see why the current generation of singers (or skaters) should follow the old style, some of them yes but NOT the majority. I know because many of my friends are studying it. I see nothing wrong with saying that the majority of them "must" adapt the new style, because if not, they're out of job. They simply chose the style that is more effective to them in this condition and situation. And the generation of audience that has gotten used to the new style might prefer it this way too. I have so many friends complain that they "can't get Callas", is she iconic? Yes. But 8/10 of my friends say: "her voice is meh to my ears."

This is the same with BoP, you and some posters keep saying: "Petrenko/Yagudin/etec... jumping style was great and what a pity that the current skaters don't jump like that." Our reply is simple: "It's not our preference." My old friend always complained: "Why you don't like Caruso? He's so great!" Oh yes he was great but I can't feel him. I don't see his singing style as beauty. If you can accept that there are many audience now adays do not feel Callas enough, then it's the same with many skating fans nowadays don't prefer Petrenko's style.

Back to skating, I see this as the new kind of tecnique is a trend and I don't see it as something horrible. Many coaches and skaters have reason to not follow the old style anymore because they think it cost them too much energy, it is not effective enough or so... it's their choice. You don't like them it's your preference. But it is not fair to say the current skaters should jump in that old style (thus have no energy left for other elements) to be called great. The current generations have done many things that the old generations of skaters can't do (and were not trained to do). They are all great, but in different ways.
 
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1) i think it's better if I don't get into an opera based post. That's my field and I don't care what your friends say or not, I prefer not getting into it. And BTW, this is the second time you invoke "friends or specialists" in your discussion in this thread... this is a sophism. Means nothing to me ;)

2) back to skating indeed... yes, BOP and others have mentioned other, older generation skaters... HOWEVER I have mentioned 3 dudes.... Han Yan... Denis Ten and Nicolas Nadeau... All of which are pretty current ;) so the old style as you say, is not that old. It is still there and I prefer it. Not because I am nostalgic for 1988 or 1992... but because I LOVE BIG JUMPS. And yes, I am Patrick fan... he doesn't have the biggest jumps... He has really nice skating skills which pretty much corresponds to the new style and I love him exactly for that... but then, when I am asked to answer a thread talking about an iconic combo, I will go for the big one... not for the wow this came out of super nice footwork... and in the middle of a program... nope... I will get the biggest most exciting jump i can find.

YMMV
 
1) i think it's better if I don't get into an opera based post. That's my field and I don't care what your friends say or not, I prefer not getting into it. And BTW, this is the second time you invoke "friends or specialists" in your discussion in this thread... this is a sophism. Means nothing to me ;)
It also means nothing to me when older people refuse to acknowledge younger generation's input. It's like talking to a wall.

2) back to skating indeed... yes, BOP and others have mentioned other, older generation skaters... HOWEVER I have mentioned 3 dudes.... Han Yan... Denis Ten and Nicolas Nadeau... All of which are pretty current ;) so the old style as you say, is not that old. It is still there and I prefer it. Not because I am nostalgic for 1988 or 1992... but because I LOVE BIG JUMPS. And yes, I am Patrick fan... he doesn't have the biggest jumps... He has really nice skating skills which pretty much corresponds to the new style and I love him exactly for that... but then, when I am asked to answer a thread talking about an iconic combo, I will go for the big one... not for the wow this came out of super nice footwork... and in the middle of a program... nope... I will get the biggest most exciting jump i can find. YMMV
Han Yan's jumps are not belong to the same category of the older style. His jumps are super long, not super high. I love him and all. But if I have to classify him in some way, he is totally different from Yagudin/Petrenko/etc... had he been more consistent, I'd say he's the best jumper of this generation. But he is not consistent so that's a big minus.

And I never say the no one practices the old style anymore, I say it is not as in favor as before which is true. Now adays, the standard for a beautiful jump is Yuna Kim style, not Midori Ito. It does not disregard any of Midori's greatness.

And in my opinion, Patrick's jumps are big, in fact his 4T is huge. He jumps across the ice. So in my opinion, he is no less of a jumper than the older generations like Yagudin.
 
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when I suggested Patrick's 4T-3T was an iconic combo, some people told me no :) or made fun of it... so yeah.. anyways... and btw... who says we don't value the new generation's input ?
It also means nothing to me when older people refuse to acknowledge younger generation's input.


Han Yan's jumps are not belong to the same category of the older style. His jumps are super long, not super high. I love him and all. But if I have to classify him in some way, he is totally different from Yagudin/Petrenko/etc... had he been more consistent, I'd say he's the best jumper of this generation. But he is not consistent so that's a minus.

And in my opinion, Patrick's jumps are big, in fact his 4T is huge. He jumps across the ice. So in my opinion, he is no less of a jumper than the older generations like Yagudin.
 
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when I suggested Patrick's 4T-3T was an iconic combo, some people told me no :) or made fun of it... so yeah.. anyways... and btw... who says we don't value the new generation's input ?
My take is that Patrick's 4T3T is incredible and top of the current field but it is not a new combo which no one has ever done with amazing effect before. Iconic means it has huge impact in the field, or it was never done before.

In my opinion, a combo becomes iconic when:
1) Someone who does it first and cleanly and consistently: Boyang's 4lz3T for example, or Midori Ito's 3-3 (the first woman to land a 3-3, not to mention a 3A in competition)
2) Someone who makes the combo famous and makes it become standard: Yuna' 3lz3T for example, she was not the first to jump it, but after her many girls have included 3lz3T in their programs as a standard.
3) It makes the rule change.

So, in my opinion, even though Patrick's 4T3T is amazing, Han Yan's 3A3T is longest when he's on form, they are not iconic because they are not the first to do it, and they do not make it famous (most top men do 4T3T and 3A3T way before that).
 
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^^okay... so that's your opinion and I respect that very much....

so enlighten me... so who has the most iconic 3A-3T then, in your opinion as Han Yan is not the first... nor made it famous? I am just curious.
 
This is about things that are iconic so I'm not sure why Max Aaron is being brought up in this thread. And the 3A is arguably Fernandez's worst jump. OF COURSE his were better in the free skate (well, aside from Hanyu's combination). Also it's important to note that Javier has no transitions into them, does a simple 3A+2T and does them both in the first half of the program. They cover very little distance comparatively.

You mentioned Boston and said that it proved Hanyu had the best 3A. I was pointing out that his wasn't even the best 3A there.
 
You mentioned Boston and said that it proved Hanyu had the best 3A. I was pointing out that his wasn't even the best 3A there.
I agree that at Boston Yuzuru did badly so his 3A there was not in the top form that he can do. However I strongly disgaree with whoever call Yuzuru's 3A as small. It is huge and no weaker than all top contenders when he is on, especially when he does 3A in combo and in second half: https://youtu.be/hx_ui1MJbmA?t=3m9s
https://youtu.be/hH0hMu8p6YI?t=3m15s

As a Yuzuru's fan, I don't call this an iconic move of his as he is not the only one who does it. However, in my opinion, his 3A3T is among the best.
 
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I love Yagudin hell a lot, but I don't think Yagudin can perform the modern's top programs with 3/4 quads + two 3A in combos + transitions + various spins + step sequence + choreo sequence etc... and still make his jumps look as huge as the old days. How can you jump a 3A which is like 1 metre height when they have other quads + big elements, don't you think? Jumps in second half will often be smaller than jumps in the first half, it's common sense isn't it?

Well who knows what Yagudin would have been able to do if he trained CoP skating from a young age, but that's irrelevant.

Yes, people may not be able to focus as much on huge, airy jumps when they have many other complexities in their program to work on. But that doesn't mean you just score the jumps incorrectly and ignore those other qualities. The people who DO choose to do jumps like that need to be rewarded for it. Jumps that lack great quality shouldn't be getting a bunch of extra points simply because of a random, inconsequential step being placed before/after the jump.

If you want skaters to show off their highest biggest jumps like the old days then better to tell them to front load all the jumps. However the current system prefer backloading. If anything, the system has changed, so the technique, the coaching and the stratergy all have changed accordingly. The new style is a trend we can't undo.

Not true. The current rules can be changed. The "second half" bonus for jumps could be pushed further back, so that people aren't able to so easily cram a bunch of jumps into the "bonus" section of the program. The GOE scoring guidelines for jumps can be changed to better reward the qualities I've been talking about. The scoring of the Program Components can also improve, with a more accurate emphasis on choreography and interpretation, not just "transitions = choreography".

More jump combinations mean more varieties and less repeating the same kind of layout

The extra jump combinations generally just means the skater must throw in an extra random +2Toe (or two) somewhere in the program, and it also allows skaters to skimp out on the most difficult jump combinations. Since everyone must do 3 jump combinations, and difficult combinations are not given extra reward, people are able to just put their +2Toe on their hardest repeat jump of the program and then do the more difficult +3Toe or +3Sal combo on an easier jump.

Modern programs would be a little better if only 2 jump combinations were required in the LP. Ideally there would be optional elements in the Long Program; extra jump combinations could be a choice.

And yet, even in the old days you have the like of Tara Lipninski winning Olympic :palmf: so it's not like the explosive jumping technique (but cost you too much energy) was much more treasured in the first place.

Tara Lipinski DID have explosive jumping technique. She may not have had huge jumps, but that's simply because of how small she was. Her jumps had amazing SNAP to them - her rotation was excellent, she rotated more in the air on her Lutz and Flip than most of the Ladies do these days; she didn't turn her toepick around on the takeoff but instead went straight back into the jump. That snap to her jumps is what allowed her to do the difficult jump combinations that the other ladies weren't able to do.

And the new generation of fans and audiences might prefer the new style than the old style.

The "new generation" of audience for figure skating is drastically smaller than it used to be, one of the reasons being how much more mechanical and less visually/emotionally pleasing the modern skating has been at times.
 
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Well who knows what Yagudin would have been able to do if he trained CoP skating from a young age, but that's irrelevant.
We can never tell what they could have done if they were trained under CoP. But they are all human, not super human. My point is you can't expect them to jump 100 cm in height and 400 cm in length with 876484920 of transitions before it. I have no doubt Yagudin is a great talent and I was his fan in the old days, but it is logical to assume that had Yagudin trained under CoP, he would have meet the same issues with the current top men.

Yes, people may not be able to focus as much on huge, airy jumps when they have many other complexities in their program to work on. But that doesn't mean you just score the jumps incorrectly and ignore those other qualities.
I respectly disagree with this. The skaters who choose to jump the old style STILL get credit for their jumps. If you look at score sheets you still see that most skaters who have huge jumps still get around +2 GOE despite their lack of transitions. Brezina, Kovtun etc, practically everyone still get good GOE when they land their jumps. It is the inconsistency that hinders their chances, not the new trend of jumping technique or which is prefered.

The people who DO choose to do jumps like that need to be rewarded for it and jumps that lack great quality shouldn't be getting a bunch of extra points simply because of a random, inconsequential step being placed before/after the jump.
They get +1 and +2 GOE and sometimes even +3 depends on their landing which is rightful according to the rule. I do agree that the highest GOEs are handing out too easily these days. But it is applied for all the top favourites and in fact it is not much different from 6.0 when some top favourites did well and got too many 6.0.
Putting steps before jumps should get some plus point because that's how the current system is rewarding. They get points for the difficulty and there is nothing wrong with that. The thing is how much difficult it is and how much it should be rewarded.

Another thing is, I don't see how men's quads these days are smaller than the top men's quads in the old days (yes some do have tiny jumps but the top men like Yuzuru, Javi, Patrick... their jumps are all BIG. They also have to do harder layout, harder transitions, harder spins etc... Their 3As might not be as high in the old days but some are longer. And honestly it's not the 3A their main concern, it's how to land the multi quads.

Not true. The current rules can be changed. The "second half" bonus for jumps could be pushed further back, so that people aren't able to so easily cram a bunch of jumps into the "bonus" section of the program. The GOE scoring guidelines for jumps can be changed to better reward the qualities I've been talking about. The scoring of the Program Components can also improve, with a more accurate emphasis on choreography and interpretation, not just "transitions = choreography".
The extra jump combinations generally just means the skater must throw in an extra random +2Toe (or two) somewhere in the program, and it also allows skaters to skimp out on the most difficult jump combinations. Since everyone must do 3 jump combinations, and difficult combinations are not given extra reward, people are able to just put their +2Toe on their hardest repeat jump of the program and then do the more difficult +3Toe or +3Sal combo on an easier jump.
I agree that the current rules can be changed. But at the moment skaters are still exploiting what's most usefull and effective. Your preference has nothing to do with what they see as the most effective to them. And as the sport and the system have become more and more complex, I don't think you can undo the trend and make it more simple.

Modern programs would be a little better off if only 2 jump combinations were required in the LP. Ideally there would be optional elements in the Long Program, extra jump combinations could be a choice.
How is this better than the current system?

Tara Lipinski DID have explosive jumping technique. She may not have had huge jumps, but that's simply because of how small she was. Her jumps had amazing SNAP to them - her rotation was excellent, she rotated more in the air on her Lutz and Flip than most of the Ladies do these days; she didn't turn her toepick around on the takeoff but instead went straight back into the jump. That snap to her jumps is what allowed her to do the difficult jump combinations that the other ladies weren't able to do.
I strongly disagree. There is nothing explosive in Tara's technique at all. At least in my opinion. AND what made Tara did the combo she did was not only because of her technique, had she skated until she passed puberty I highly DOUBT that she could still land those combo. It's the same with other wonder babies who did so many difficult jump combination before puberty and lost them when they grew up. Let's not forget Adelina once had 3lo combinations as well...;)

The "new generation" of audience for figure skating is drastically smaller than it used to be, one of the reasons being how much more mechanical and less visually/emotionally pleasing the modern skating has been at times.
I don't agree with this. There is no measurement of how smaller the new generation of FS audience have become. They're much different and from many other parts in the world thanks to the internet. The skating fan community in American has become smaller maybe but it does not mean in the other parts of the world it has become smaller, in fact it might have become bigger and you have no way of measuring it.
 
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Tara Lipinski DID have explosive jumping technique. - serious double standards, I don't know how to react honestly , Tara ? her rotation was excellent? :drama: I don't know to laugh or cry, sorry..

Seriously I can guess why FS is loosing its popularity in NA (but I will not discuss it here) ..as for other countries I see that many people got interested in last several years... we can't measure the numbers but I strongly disagree in this, I see very interesting knowledgeable new generation of fans... and I am telling you they are many..
also even I am "old" the jump without that "inconsequential " step is not attractive and worth of huge GOE at all...(at least for me)and I am the one who prefers current system much better, "Choreography" "atristry" you like to use this words.. but imo current fs field is lot more exciting for me than it was 20 y ago. (singles and pairs/not ice dance)
 
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