2016-2017 State of U.S. Men Figure Skating

[karne]

I never doubted he would, so this news does not come as an enormous surprise to me, though I have to admit was a little surprised that the Salchow was also a thing.

I was perhaps a little more intrigued by a comment further down the chain, perhaps implied to be by someone who saw it, about Max's "awesome quad loop"...

 

[StitchMonkey]

Jason has been talking about the 4S since 2014 at least. Kori last season said it was actually not that far behind the 4T...to be honest I was kinda suspecting to see a 4S at 4CC and maybe earlier if the 4T starts actually being a point getter rather than a liability. I am not surprised he was trying it there... though i did think we would hear of "attempts" before being worded as "landed"

I am so happy for Max and cautiously optimistic it is true. Sadly, Max was getting to the point he needed another quad and the 4T just seems to not be his friend (though the tail end attempts are interesting). The 4Lo could be great for him and I think fit him well - edge jumps have been good to him. I think psychologically it will help him to have a second chance quad as well. It is pretty clear when you watch him that he gets pissed when he misses his opening 4A+3T... having the 4Loop in his hand might take some of the pressure off and help him dwell less.

 

[ice coverage]

IN article today mostly about Nathan Chen (also about Grant Hochstein):

http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2016/08/26/197645372​

Lynn Rutherford got good quotes at Champs Camp from both Nathan and Grant.

 

[Tavi...]

So USFS seems really determined to put their top skaters against each other in early season match ups! The US classic features:

Jason Brown
Adam Rippon
Ross Miner
Sean Rabbitt

The full list isn't up yet but the Japanese and Canadian teams have been announced: Takahito Mura / Keiji Tanaka and Elladj Balde / Mitchell Gordon, respectively.

Should be interesting!

 

[aromaticchicken]

So USFS seems really determined to put their top skaters against each other in early season match ups! The US classic features:

Jason Brown
Adam Rippon
Ross Miner
Sean Rabbitt

The full list isn't up yet but the Japanese and Canadian teams have been announced: Takahito Mura / Keiji Tanaka and Elladj Balde / Mitchell Gordon, respectively.

Should be interesting!

Absolutely love it. We need greater in-country competition. It's not just a "weeding out the weak" thing, there's a real benefit to training and being around (even if only on practice ice) others at your level. One of the weaknesses of the U.S. and Canada versus the Russians or the Chinese is that the American skaters train at rinks all over the country, many of them growing up as the top skater within their own rinks. (Versus the Russians being concentrated in Moscow.) Many skaters talk about how different it is to practice around other elite skaters for the first time, and how it pushes them.

 

[Tavi...]

Absolutely love it. We need greater in-country competition. It's not just a "weeding out the weak" thing, there's a real benefit to training and being around (even if only on practice ice) others at your level. One of the weaknesses of the U.S. and Canada versus the Russians or the Chinese is that the American skaters train at rinks all over the country, many of them growing up as the top skater within their own rinks. (Versus the Russians being concentrated in Moscow.) Many skaters talk about how different it is to practice around other elite skaters for the first time, and how it pushes them.

Absolutely agree!

 

[karne]

I think psychologically it will help him to have a second chance quad as well. It is pretty clear when you watch him that he gets pissed when he misses his opening 4A+3T... having the 4Loop in his hand might take some of the pressure off and help him dwell less.

I actually think he made some big steps towards correcting this last season. It's true that in the past he seems to get dirty on himself if he misses the opening 4S-3T, but I thought he kept himself quite collected. At Skate America, for example, he did 4S-2T to start, but you wouldn't know it, he just went on with the job. I think possibly that the development of the "backup plan" layout (where they changed one of the 2As for a 3T if he missed the opening combo) has helped with that. At Worlds practice I saw him do an FS run-through where he missed the combo, and seamlessly inserted the 3T later, so this is definitely something he trains.

He's also got better at the what-to-do when he misses it in the short, too. His 3Lz-3T at Worlds was fabulous.

But I have to say, I think the one program that really showed how fast his brain whirrs when he's skating was the FS at Four Continents. With a bit of plastic on his blade and missing jumps all over the show, he rebuilt the entire program from scratch on the fly! And he didn't Zayak, didn't leave out combos, and still nailed a 3Lz-3T at the very end of the program. There was no chance that he had ever trained that layout, or talked about "what if this happens", he just built it on the fly. It was a seriously impressive skate.

 

[ice coverage]

Late-bloomer Rippon hopes to revive quad toe
Brown shows progress with quad; Aaron wants to get crowd involved

Posted 8/29/16
by Lynn Rutherford, special to icenetwork
http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2016/08/29/197784636​

Lots of quotes from Adam, Jason, and Max at Champs Camp.

 

[Tavi...]

Late-bloomer Rippon hopes to revive quad toe
Brown shows progress with quad; Aaron wants to get crowd involved

Posted 8/29/16
by Lynn Rutherford, special to icenetwork
http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2016/08/29/197784636​

Lots of quotes from Adam, Jason, and Max at Champs Camp.

Thanks - very interesting article!

A few of the things I found most interesting:

- Adam landed a 4T in both the SP (-1.57 GOE) and FS (-1.86 GOE) at NHK 2013 (where he placed 4th), but when he returned, he "lost the feeling and touch of it," so he decided to start working on the 4Z. He hopes to have the 4T at Japan Open.

- Per Kori, Jason landed a "gorgeous" 4T and an equally gorgeous 4S at Champs Camp - not clear if it was in a program. Jason says that his recovery continued into the off-season and that he's trying not to pressure himself to be Hanyu or Shoma.

- Max changed his entry into his quads, thinks it works much better, and was thrilled that people got into his program at Collegiates.

Yay US men! Looking forward to seeing all of you compete in September!

 

[shmay]

Quad toe and salchow from Torgashev

https://www.instagram.com/p/BJsfhMtAS4s/

Hope he can combine the jumps with his strong skating skills en route to success on JGP circuit

 

[ice coverage]

Ross Miner's scores at 2016 Cranberry Open:

SP 80.30 (41.37 TES + 38.93 PCS)
FS 139.55 (62.05 TES + 77.50 PCS) including quad salchow
Total 219.85 (sixteen points higher than at Glacier Falls)

SP protocol http://www.neicc.org/results/2016/Cranberry Open/SEGM025.html (Fri Aug 12)
FS protocol http://www.neicc.org/results/2016/Cranberry Open/SEGM039.html (Sat Aug 13)
http://www.neicc.org/results/2016/Cranberry Open/index.html
https://comp.entryeeze.com/Home.aspx?cid=217

---

Ross is one of the cast members of 2016 An Evening with Champions, Sep 9-10.
Also: Nathan Chen, Shotaro Omori, Kevin Shum.
(Ross for only the Friday show.)

https://www.aneveningwithchampions.org/cast.html​

---

ETA:

Today IN published its annual article with predictions for men's "breakout stars" (subjective term) in 2016-17:

http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2016/09/02/192412212 (Sep 2)​

FWIW, among U.S. men: Rutherford chose Dolensky; Vladisov Luchianov chose Hochstein; Jean Christophe-Berlot and McCarvel chose Nathan Chen; Sarah Brannen chose Torgashev.​

 

[chuckm]

Alexei Kraznozhon won silver at the JGP in the Czech Republic this weekend. His skating is much improved since last year, much more controlled, and he is very musical---he gets into character and sells the heck out of his programs.

 

[Tavi...]

Nathan Chen's Le Corsaire SP from Golden West featuring 4Z (fall) and 4F-3T (fall) with very short set up. Program clearly still in early stages, but looks like it will be good:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3CnBFqgwEB0

ETA Vincent Zhou:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QdE8bsBENKk

 

[karne]

Nathan Chen's Le Corsaire SP from Golden West featuring 4Z (fall) and 4F-3T (fall) with very short set up. Program clearly still in early stages, but looks like it will be good:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3CnBFqgwEB0

Hmm. A 17 year old (is he 17 yet?) kid, still growing, already suffering from previous growth plate injuries and a major hip injury that required surgery only eight months ago, and we'll give him a quad lutz and quad flip to do in his short. Yes, this sounds like an absolutely genius idea.



Way to go, Team Nathan. You clearly haven't learned a single bloody thing.

 

[Tavi...]

Hmm. A 17 year old (is he 17 yet?) kid, still growing, already suffering from previous growth plate injuries and a major hip injury that required surgery only eight months ago, and we'll give him a quad lutz and quad flip to do in his short. Yes, this sounds like an absolutely genius idea.



Way to go, Team Nathan. You clearly haven't learned a single bloody thing.

Yeah I get you! Someone commented elsewhere that because of his hip issues the plan is to replace the 4S with either 4Z or 4F.

 

[StitchMonkey]

The theory i heard was these quads are easier on him (in a low impact way) than the 4S... so umm yeah.

Could he have maybe done one comp with a less crazy layout... i mean one summer comp that is your first time back on the ice, might be a good idea to be a little bit conservative.

Maybe this really was a test bed for him to see which of the two he likes better. He did pop his 3A as well. Strange that I am somewhat hoping for planned pop at this point, but at least it would show some restraint. But to be honest I am getting a bit philosophical and starting to wonder at what point does this become self-destructive?

I will say that the program itself might actually be a good one for Nathan. He at least had a nice "dancing on the ice" quality going on with it last night. And he seemed to hate it less/be more comfortable with it than his last set of programs. So that is good. In a selfish way I wish he did do a clean triple version of it, because I would like to watch this program in that format.

 

[Skye]

Yeah I get you! Someone commented elsewhere that because of his hip issues the plan is to replace the 4S with either 4Z or 4F.

I'm not a medical professional and can do only waltz jumps on the ice, so I have to beg ignorance here: 4Lz or 4F is less strenuous on the hip than 4S?

In any case, acquiring a new quad means you're going to fall a lot until you get it, which cannot be ideal in Nathan's situation.

 

[yyyskate]

^^ could be, different people respond to jumps differently.

 

[yyyskate]

my impression of Nathan and Vincent's new SP (copied here from program thread)
"Nathan #Slaythan :luv17:: Ballet is perfectly within his genre. and I think his spin improved a little perhaps? not to mention the crazy jumps. He seems overall softer and more fluid than before.
watched Vincent withOUT music (muted). He also seems more fluid than before. Also I like his shirt. feels abit like Jeff_Butt. give him this Prince aura. That shirt suit her body, much better than tight fitting one piece he used to wear last season.
BTW, I like Nathan's hair style. I also like Nathan's outfit too, simple like a ballet practice outfit for men. Nathan is SOOOOOOOO cooool.
"

 

[Layback11]

I'm not a medical professional and can do only waltz jumps on the ice, so I have to beg ignorance here: 4Lz or 4F is less strenuous on the hip than 4S?

In any case, acquiring a new quad means you're going to fall a lot until you get it, which cannot be ideal in Nathan's situation.

As a skater, I would say yes to the flip and no to the lutz. Flip is probably the least likely jump to exacerbate a hip injury because it has a very straight takeoff, so there's none of the twisting motion that would be painful on a bad hip. Lutz has a bit of a "sideways" takeoff in terms of leg position and you have to twist your hip a lot to get into the air, so probably not.