2016-17 State of Japanese Ladies Skating

[Li'Kitsu]

Perhaps I should have been clearer then. She can't do it anymore in competition without getting UR calls, which is what matters in the end.

So it's perfectly fine to deduce from this season that Mao will never land and rotate that 3Lo at the end of a combo again.

But on the other hand, people saying Satoko won't be able to do a 3A given the quality of her overall jumps, that's something you can't say yet and we all should just wait. Sure

 

[ioanna]

So it's perfectly fine to deduce from this season that Mao will never land and rotate that 3Lo at the end of a combo again.

But on the other hand, people saying Satoko won't be able to do a 3A given the quality of her overall jumps, that's something you can't say yet and we all should just wait. Sure

She may be able to rotate that backend 3Lo just like she did once last season at NHK Trophy but the rest of them getting UR calls is not a positive perspective. I would love for her to prove me wrong this season.

Unlike Mao's repeated UR 3Los, we haven't seen Satoko's 3A yet so when people say she won't be able to do it they're just assuming. Landing a 3A does not depend on the overall quality of her jumps; if anything the 2A is her best jump.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

^ We have seen Mao rotate that backend 3Lo at all, which is more than I can say for Satoko's 3A, which we haven't seen at all.

And the 2A is her best jump - but ladies with way better 2As weren't able to get 3As. Those ladies that did land 3A so far IMO all had at least really good 2As by overall standards (Midori, Tonya, Mao, Liza and Yukari). There is a correlation.

 

[ioanna]

^ We have seen Mao rotate that backend 3Lo at all, which is more than I can say for Satoko's 3A, which we haven't seen at all.

Which is why until Satoko lands the 3A in competition or shares a video from practice, people are just assuming she isn't able to do it.

 

[MaxSwagg]

Which is why until Satoko lands the 3A in competition or shares a video from practice, people are just assuming she isn't able to do it.

Satoko will never have a 3A. And she and Shoma are used as examples because they're some of the worst pre-rotators currently. It's completely ridiculous to compare incorrect edges and UR - things that DO get actively scrutinized by the panel - against pre-rotation, which doesn't and allows every skater to get away with it.

 

[ioanna]

Satoko will never have a 3A.

Right? How dare she when she's one of the worst pre-rotators currently.

It's completely ridiculous to compare incorrect edges and UR - things that DO get actively scrutinized by the panel - against pre-rotation, which doesn't and allows every skater to get away with it.

I wasn't comparing incorrect edges and UR to PR, I was simply saying that right now the system has rules for incorrect edges and UR but it doesn't for PR. People have every right to be angry about the lack of a PR rule but this anger tends to be directed at skaters rather than the system itself.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

Which is why until Satoko lands the 3A in competition or shares a video from practice, people are just assuming she isn't able to do it.

And I'm just assuming Yuzuru isn't landing quintuple axels yet, but of course until we don't see proof to the contrary, nobody can say he doesn't.

 

[ioanna]

And I'm just assuming Yuzuru isn't landing quintuple axels yet, but of course until we don't see proof to the contrary, nobody can say he doesn't.

Ignoring your attempt at ridiculing my opinion, you are free to assume whatever you please just like I'm free to believe it's not my business if people think my opinions are ~provocative~ and I'm ~feigning authority~.

I think this thread is getting way off the rails so with this post I'm going to stop dragging the conversation.

 

[bosskil]

And I'm just assuming Yuzuru isn't landing quintuple axels yet, but of course until we don't see proof to the contrary, nobody can say he doesn't.

 

[carotide]

Her GPF bronze was also the result of who made the least mistakes, because her FS there was subpar and underwhelming. Small little details that are conveniently forgotten by some of her fans.

Interesting point. Do you realize Miyahara won her silver medal at Worlds in the same way? Radionova skated her lp with a fever that day and she made some mistakes. Sometimes that gets conveniently forgotten too..

 

[ioanna]

Interesting point. Do you realize Miyahara won her silver medal at Worlds in the same way? Radionova skated her lp with a fever that day and she made some mistakes. Sometimes that gets conveniently forgotten too..

Don't take my quote out of the full context just to attack Miyahara.

 

[carotide]

Don't take my quote out of the full context just to attack Miyahara.

I wasn't attacking her, I was stating a fact. Just like you did.

 

[ioanna]

I wasn't attacking her, I was stating a fact. Just like you did.

The way Miyahara won her Worlds silver has little to do with the actual point of the post from which you selected that one quote.

 

[carotide]

The way Miyahara won her Worlds silver has little to do with the actual point of the post from which you selected that one quote.

I'm sorry, you said Marin won bronze at GPF because others (Fedichkina) had a worse free skate than hers. I said Satoko won silver at Worlds because Radionova had some mistakes in her free skate. Is there a difference between these two facts?

 

[ioanna]

I'm sorry, you said Marin won bronze at GPF because others (Fedichkina) had a worse free skate than hers. I said Satoko won silver at Worlds because Radionova had some mistakes in her free skate. Is there a difference between these two facts?

Marin had a pretty bad FS herself actually. I guess I have to quote my own full post to make myself understood. In case you haven't taken a look around the forum lately, there are some Marin fans who love to brag about her brilliance. If anyone says she's inconsistent, they will pull the "she skated well when it mattered" card - which is Jr Worlds where she also happened to have a little help thanks to the withdrawal of Tsurskaya and Fedichkina. So I actually said

Marin's GPF medal was the only thing that gave her the advantage over other juniors because the other criterias of selection (Jr Nationals, Nationals) were a failure. Her GPF bronze was also the result of who made the least mistakes, because her FS there was subpar and underwhelming. Small little details that are conveniently forgotten by some of her fans.

In order to be able to go to Jr Worlds, it's important for that skater to make the podium at Jr Nationals. It's important, but only a part of the full selection criteria. She had another chance at Sr Worlds, she messed up again. So the only thing that sent her to Jr Worlds was the bronze medal at the GPF, a competition where she also made mistakes but so did the others. IIRC the difference between her and Fedichkina (4th) was one point. If not for that GPF medal, JSF could have chosen any other junior lady, Japan has plenty of them. They could have chosen Yuhana Yokoi (3rd at Jr Nationals) or Mai Mihara (Grand Prix finalist).

So my point was, some of her fans conveniently forget the way Honda managed to make it to Jr Worlds and state that she will soon be Japan's #1 lady. If you still want to compare her to Miyahara winning silver, I'll just say Miyahara became the Japanese National champion before competing at Worlds.

 

[carotide]

I think you're bringing in some unnecessary details. I simply said that both Honda and Miyahara got a medal thanks to their competitor's mistakes. Sometimes it happens.
There was no reference to Honda's inconsistency or brilliance in my post nor was I trying to attack Miyahara.

 

[ioanna]

I think you're bringing in some unnecessary details. I simply said that both Honda and Miyahara got a medal thanks to their competitor's mistakes. Sometimes it happens.
There was no reference to Honda's inconsistency or brilliance in my post nor was I trying to attack Miyahara.

Except the point I was making in the post you quoted was about Honda's inconsistency, not about her competitors making mistakes at the GPF. That's why I added the "unnecessary details". I've no idea why you brought up Miyahara at all. I'm sorry but that and imitating my wording didn't come off as just a simple statement.

 

[carotide]

Yeah I still think you don't get what I'm saying, nevermind.

 

[ioanna]

Yeah I still think you don't get what I'm saying, nevermind.

Neither do you.

 

[hippomoomin]

2010 was the year I started to pay serious attention to figure skating. Now I recall that many comments on Mao's Youtube videos mentioned her jumps are "cheated", which probably mean UR and wrong edge.

I agree. Mao has been the target of attack for her jumps technique for years ever before 2010. I don't get the reasoning that "Mao does not get much attack like Satoko".

ESPN even bashed Mao for flutzing, on their news. That's a technical error many ladies have. But they only bash mao as if that's the biggest sin in the world. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ve8_YkAHVzk

If anything, I'd say Mao has been the subject of most attack ever. I bet Satoko won't get a whole television program bashing her like that. And unless ISU changed the rule for pre-rotation, no commentators will tell the audience about Satoko's pre-rotation at all.