2016-2017 State of U.S. Men Figure Skating | Page 17 | Golden Skate

2016-2017 State of U.S. Men Figure Skating

but his free skate, boy do i LOVE his new LP! so much fun, i was laughing the entire time. he seemed a little shy and embarrassed out there, i hope he'll grow more comfortable and just go for it and sell it. the opening for example, i would love to see him at least mouth the lyrics all exaggeratedly with some passion. it seemed he grew more comfortable towards the end where it looked he was feeling the music more. loved the ending move!!

if he were an extrovert i feel like he would sell that program quite a lot. be ridiculous and over the top while feeling everything. sort of like jean-luc baker goofing off. this program showed me that he is probably quite a shy guy who doesn't goof off all that much (or that obnoxiously).

When you tell him you're a fan of his, he will get a bit bashful, almost like he can't quite believe it. He's friendly when you approach him and will show interest in what you say, and certainly he can be funny on podiums and press conferences, will hug other skaters straight up. He's no Jason (is anyone Jason?), but he's not as painfully shy as Josh, either.

My thoughts go back to a comment Ricky Dornbush made after Max won Skate America last year, that "pretty much all he does is skate and study". Possibly, too, some of his seeming introversion on the ice might come from a sensation of being burned. Every other time he's tried to be more extroverted on the ice, it all went wrong - the samba SP was inexplicably poorly received, Carmen and Footloose were disaster programs. The only time it's really been well-received was Tron and WSS. So I think if he went back into his shell a bit, it was probably a reflex reaction to the responses to his programs.

The Lion King has the potential to be - and I think it will be - his best free skate ever. Even the judges already like it - 78 PCS here, only a little under that disgraceful PCS he got in Boston and only three points lower than his PB PCS. It's fun, it's quirky, and he obviously enjoys it. Maybe rein in a few of the modern-dance-arms moments that Mills has clearly wedged in, but otherwise, it's brilliant. I can't wait to see it done at full strength with everything finalised and where it's meant to be, and hopefully the judges will respond to it.
 
Max's step sequence was really great - he seems to intuitively respond to the rhythms / music and the choreo really works with that. If his programs continue to feature more of these rythyms instead of music and choreo that demands a legato line, stretch, and "pretty" movement, I think his PCS could rise substantially.
 
I updated my spreadsheet! I'm going to wait one more week to unleash all the numbers, but I'll give you top 5 for Overall, SP and overall for both junior and senior domestically. Also please correct me if I have the wrong men in the wrong section (There might be moving up to senior, for instance).

To that end: JGP competitors Vincent Zhou, Andrew Torgashev, Tomoki Hiwatashi and Emmanuel Savary are ranked among the U.S. senior men. I have not see any indication that Alexei Krasnozhon is moving up to seniors domestically.

(ETA: Kevin Shum and Oleksiy Melnyk have indeed moved up; I will edit accordingly on my spreadsheet and have them as seniors in my next update).

I've also noted if they're in the top 10 at Season's Best list. Obviously it's early, but hey it's fun to note!!

For the state of consistency, I have not included the Japan Open scores since it's an invitational event.

SENIOR OVERALL
1.) Jason Brown 256.59 (Lombardia Trophy- No. 3 in ISU Season's Best (behind Shoma Uno and Yuzuru Hanyu)
2.) Adam Rippon 248.24 (U.S. International Figure Skating Classic - No. 5 in ISU Season's Best (behind the three above + Takahito Mura, who beat him at that competition))
3.) Vincent Zhou 226.39 (JGP Yokohama - No. 10 in ISU Season's Best, behind above mentioned + Jun Hwa Cha, Dmitri Aliev, Alexander Petrov)
4.) Max Aaron 226.13 (Skate Canada Autumn Classic)
5.) Grant Hochstein 217.25 (Nebelhorn Trophy)

JUNIOR OVERALL
1.) Alexei Krasnozhon 223.60 (JGP Czech Skate)
2.) Kevin Shum 178.92 (JGP Czech Skate)
3.) Eric Sjoberg 177.72 (JGP Cup of Mordovia)
4.) Camden Pulkinen 171.79 (JGP Estonia)
5.) William Hubbert 171.51 (JGP Ljubljana)

SENIOR SP
1. Rippon 87.86 (U.S. Classic - No. 2 in ISU Season's Best (behind Hanyu))
2. Brown 83.18 (U.S. Classic - No. 4 in ISU Season's Best - behind Hanyu, Uno, Rippon)
3. Zhou 80.53 (JGP Yokohama - No. 6 in ISU Season's Best - behind above + Mura)
4. Hochstein 75.00 (Nebelhorn)
5. Aaron 72.93 (Lombardia)

JUNIOR SP
1. Krasnozhon 75.10 (JGP Czech Skate - No. 10 in ISU Season's best, behind those named in Senior SP + Cha, Aliev, Petrov)
2. Pulkinen 60.44 (JGP Estonia)
3. Sjoberg 59.72 (JGP Cup of Mordovia)
4. Shum 59.49 (JGP Czech Skate)
5. Oleksiy Melnyk 54.59 (JGP St. Gervais)

SENIOR FS
1. Brown 174.91 (Lombardia -No. 1 in ISU Season's Best)
2. Rippon 160.38 (U.S. Classic - No. 6 behind Brown, Hanyu, Uno, Mura, Alexander Samarin)
3. Aaron 155.39 (Autumn Classic)
4. Zhou 145.57 (JGP Yokohama)
5. Hochstein 142.25 (Nebelhorn)

JUNIOR FS
1. Krasnozhon 148.50 (JGP Czech Skate)
2. Shum 119.43 (JGP Czech Skate)
3. Sjoberg 117.49 (JGP Cup of Mordovia)
4. Hubbart 117.29 (JGP Ljubljana)
5. Melnyk 111.32 (JGP St. Gervais)


NEXT UP: Nathan Chen at Finlandia Trophy, the final Challenger event before the start of the Grand Prix. Torgashev and Peter Liu in JGP Germany (though USFS has not officially released the entries).
 
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I am still working my way through all the programs I haven't seen yet.

Tonight I saw Jeremy Abbott and Adam Rippon at Japan Open.

Adam Rippon is now doing a 2-6 layout, similar to Jason Brown, notably 3As in the second half (vs. 1 3A for Jason). Jason however, has opted to do a 3F-3T and a 3Z-1L-3S combos (vs. a 3Z-2T-2Lo + a 3A-2T (planned, he did 3A-1T at this comp) for Adam). So they're about even in BV in 2nd-half jumps which a slight edge to Jason (47.74 v. 47.3). Jason has also been training a 3A-1L-3S, so I wouldn't be surprised to see the 3A moved to the second half if it works with the program -- which probably means training to do it in the last 30 seconds of the program, which would be an impressive impression to leave the judges with. But given his past inconsistencies with the 3A and his ongoing efforts with the quad (including a desire to put a second one) that might be a huge ask.

Adam has a point advantage in the front half with a 4Z (23.2 v. 20.1), so on paper if Adam hits everything, he would win in TES. Of course, whether he will execute is always a question. And Adam lost points on spins here.

Adam likes the program and sells it, but it still seems relatively empty to me. He is doing a few more transitions, including some steps in front of the 4Z, which I assume he is trying so he can eventually add it to the SP. But while Adam sells it emotionally with his performance, it lacked more meaty content for me, especially since I watched it after Jeremy's program.

And speaking of Jeremy, I actually think he should and can make a successful comeback next year. I don't know what his goals are internationally, but based on his skate here, he could make another Olympic team, especially if the U.S. can gain a third spot back (not a given, obviously).

He's the most fit I've seen since probably the 2011-2012 season. Yes, 2012. I think he's actually fitter than he was in 2014, when he won Nationals and made the Olympic team. He had a 3-5 layout, but his third jumping pass was just SECONDS before the halfway point. Had they just added some extra choreography, he too would have had a 2-6 layout with all his combos -- looks like a 3F-3Lo, 3A-1L-3S and a 3Z-2T were planned -- in the second half. He popped the 3Lo and 2T, but still, this is MILES better than the execution of his 2015 FS, which was actually much easier and even his 2014 FS (where he ended up popping a few jumps and placing second behind Jason at Nationals ). IT remains to be seen whether he can turn that first half 3T into a 4T (and I think that's what he's working on), but honestly if he executed the planned content he had today, perhaps move that third jumping pass over a few seconds, I think he could post a big numbers at U.S. Nationals. Again, execution is key. I wouldn't say he's at Nobunari Oda levels NOW as far as a comeback (who is not coming back, but basically just matched his 2013-2014 season scores with his Japan Open free skate), but he made a very nice opening case for a comeback.

Also I liked the program. It was full of choreography really nice exits and entrances and both his step sequences were great. I also think it's a nice departure from his past programs. Folk music, in general, has not been really used by U.S. men, so Jeremy's program felt really fresh. Also delighted to see that another British singer not named Sam Smith be featured in a figure skating program. I hope he keeps it if he does decide to return in 2017-2018.

ETA: Yes, of course, Jeremy's program at his peak was never a lack of technical content, but rather the mind game of competition. And I do see teh argument that he did well because he isn't competing this season. But I do think physically he at his 2012 shape, which is pretty good considering he's 31 now. So if he could learn to have this same mindset -- carefree performance while hitting the jumps -- then a comeback is definitely in the cards. As Kori Ade said on TSL, show us what you got!
 
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I've already posted my (favorable!) comments about Jeremy and Adam above, but Mrs P's post has made me think about a couple of things.

Regarding Adam, I was kinda surprised / kinda not surprised to see that he's still including the 4Z in his free skate, because my impression was that he was going to be replacing it with a 4T. Perhaps he's landing fully rotated 4Zs regularly in practice now? Or perhaps the fact that at SLC he stayed on his feet and it was only called < versus << caused him to rethink his plan? Because otherwise, I would have thought he'd want to at least try the 4T out in competition before competing it at Skate America for the first time. Anyone have an update on this?

Regarding a comeback from Jeremy, as I said above, I really thought he skated well, liked the program, and was touched by his obvious joy at being back out on the ice. His 3As did look beautiful. However, realistically it would take a lot for him to be competitive for a world or Olympic medal in 2018. I took a cursory look at the protocols for some of his past competitions, and although I can see that he included a 4T in some programs as far back as 2012 (maybe earlier, but I didn't check) and landed it occasionally, it was never a reliable jump for him. It doesn't look like he ever attempted a 4S, or that he ever attempted more than one quad in a program. In order for him to be even minimally competitive at the 2018 Olympics, I would think he would need at least three quads per competition (e.g., one 4T in SP plus a 4T and a 4T combo in FS) and probably more. I don't think he's ever done that. So it's not just a matter of getting back to his peak form, but significantly exceeding it at age 32. He may be able to do it, and if he wants to try, he absolutely should. But it looks to me like it would be an uphill climb for Jeremy to make the 2018 World and Olympic teams, especially since he hasn't previously demonstrated the ability to deliver at those competitions. Never say never, and I guess if 2018 rolls around and none of the currently competing US men have improved (e.g., Jason and Adam are still both struggling with quads), that might improve his chances of making the teams, especially if we have 3 spots. Still, if his real goal in returning is to medal, it seems like a long shot given the many international competitors with multi-quad programs and good to very good PCS. The splat fest at the last Olympics shows that anything is possible, though, so perhaps he feels it's worth it to try.
 
Nathan Chen apparently has been working with Marina Zoueva prior to Finlandia, per this Ice Network article: http://www.icenetwork.com/news/2016/10/07/205285908


"He is young and has potential," Zoueva said. "When I started to work with him, I just fell in love with his talent -- talent of movement, talent of skating, just general talent, how he respects the coaches' word."
Chen sustained a hip injury during the exhibition at the U.S. championships in January and had to have surgery, which ended his season. He resumed on-ice training in the summer and seems to be back to 100 percent.
"Before we left here, we had a performance in Canton, and he did four different quads in the program, and the rest was clean also," Zoueva said. "Now it's about competition. It would be nice if this young talent pushes figure skating forward technically."

As most know, Patrick Chan is now training full-time with Marina as well, so that means Nathan got to train with him as well.
 
Nathan Chen apparently has been working with Marina Zoueva prior to Finlandia, per this Ice Network article: http://www.icenetwork.com/news/2016/10/07/205285908




As most know, Patrick Chan is now training full-time with Marina as well, so that means Nathan got to train with him as well.

Nathan and Patrick train together! too cute:yahoo::yay::hap85:

They seem to be quite friendly while working with Marina, up to the point where they're adopting each other's sitting positions:laugh:
 
I think it may be time to resurrect the Bromance thread... these two are adorable.

Maybe Nathan can talk Pat into training with Raf for a bit... that could be interesting.
 
"...the best jumper in the world right now, technically." Doesn't Zoueva know that you can't fool people with singles like you can in dance? Lol I thought that quote was particularly funny...
 
I think it may be time to resurrect the Bromance thread... these two are adorable.

Maybe Nathan can talk Pat into training with Raf for a bit... that could be interesting.

There's the Skating Friendships thread:

http://goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?59645-Figure-Skating-Friendships

People should use it more anyway - give us all something heartwarming to look at; I suppose these things just end up in the fan fests else.

Coming to think, weren't there quite a few photos of Adam hanging out with Team Europe at Japan Open? And then it struck me, that he used to train with Morozov, and maybe he knew Javi & Florent from those days? (I'm useless with chronology and who did what when, so don't know if they were all there simultaneously.)
 
Ta-da! I have officially become a Nathan Chen:luv17: fan. His SP at Finlandia is just gorgeous. His expression and musicality are on the way to becoming the complete package, so that he can compete with Shoma, Javi, Hanyu.

Don't worry, I'm not abandoning Adam, Jason or Max. Each of them has such wonderful qualities as skaters, and each is gorgeous in his own way. I think it's amazing and wonderful that as US fans, we value each of these very different men with such great support and admiration. Also ... anything can happen in figure skating, and I'm not predicting anything or assuming anything.

I admit I'm one of the audience who thought Nathan's PC scores should have been higher at last nationals. So I'm not doing a huge turn-around here, but I was super concerned about the injury issue. Still am, but he's switched to 4Lz and 4F to go with 4T, to protect his hips. And I remembered that 17 year olds can heal faster. And I feel pretty confident that he, his team, his parents and even USFSA are monitoring him very closely and getting him the best and most current medical advice.

Not quite OT, I saw a friend in August who's in her 70s I think. She'd had surgery on a wrist fracture and they used some new-fangled wrap after the surgery that sped the healing process dramatically. I know a hip is way different from a wrist in every way, but IDK, maybe there's a comparable new technique or something.

Nathan's SP: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AETdx1AYMCE
 
I admit I'm one of the audience who thought Nathan's PC scores should have been higher at last nationals. So I'm not doing a huge turn-around here, but I was super concerned about the injury issue. Still am, but he's switched to 4Lz and 4F to go with 4T, to protect his hips. And I remembered that 17 year olds can heal faster. And I feel pretty confident that he, his team, his parents and even USFSA are monitoring him very closely and getting him the best and most current medical advice.

It's amazing how much technical advancement we've seen the last year. We've seen a ratified quad flip and quad loop in 2016, and each different quad (through the lutz) being attempted by at least two men in competition. I worry that we will see these men peak for very short periods like we see with the women.
 
Nathan the jumping prodigy. Holy crap. Watch out, Boyang and Shoma, he's got a 4Lz AND 4F.

The rest of his skating isn't too shabby. Nice step sequence and halfway-there skating skills. I like the choreography but he can bring more intensity to his interpretation, and GET A COSTUME. Doesn't have to be flashy. He also has a looseness to his limbs that reminds me a lot of a younger and rawer Hanyu. Let's hope he stays healthy. :hopelessness:

ETA: I know he's Raf's darling baby but Raf needs to kick his butt for not getting those spin levels!
 
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It seems that everyone on Raf's team has had issue with spin levels -- it cost Adam some points at Worlds and had level issues at his senior B this season. Ashley has had level issues as well.
 
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