2016 Skate America Ladies SP

[sabinfire]

The level of discourse would much higher and far more enjoyable if people stopped complaining about overscoring, acknowledged that it happens to everyone, and moved on.

Sounds nice. But weren't you one of the ones around this time last year 'complaining' about Tuktik's over scoring? It's fine, most of us do it... just depends on who's getting over scored at the time.

 

[deneuved]

In part, for sure but they are still judges. Or we can indeed dispense with them completely because what's the point?

What ticks me off in posts like the one before and the previous ones isn't in particular what happened. It does in the US, here or in Boston because overinflation for the home skater isn't new and it isn't limited just to Americans, far from it. What's annoying is that there are a million and one ways to justify when it happens in the US and when it happens somewhere else, it's the vile French or the evil Russians and it's all morally repugnant and followed by months of the same. Hypocrisy of the worst order.

If you had read my posts from before you would have noticed that I am not American and that this home-inflated scores do happen in every Grand Prix. It has always been like that, and I make no difference of the American, French, Canadian, Russian or Japanese judges. They all try to support their own skaters in one way or another. I don't think that there is a bias here favourably to American skaters. For me, it just happened yesterday that one of my fave skaters got the highest marks. Deservedly. You may or may not agree with that. But you're - IMHO - not in a position to say that this judging was wrong. You're not a judge.

 

[ancientpeas]

Okay I'm pulling on my knowledge of dance history (which is now in my distant past) but if I remember correctly the tango was banned in several places in the early part of the 20th C. My point is that the tango is not romantic per say like the Rumba or Samba. It's sensual and should be performed as such.

 

[Yatagarasu]

Sounds nice. But weren't you one of the ones around this time last year 'complaining' about Tuktik's over scoring? It's fine, most of us do it... just depends on who's getting over scored at the time.

That is precisely my point. Thank you. We all do it and sooner or later, almost everyone benefits from overscoring. It's just how it is in figure skating. But it's really interesting how certain people brush it off here and in Boston as just 'natural' and 'no biggie' and in other instances it is the worst thing ever!

Just stop being selective and let those who are complaining, complain while you party. It'll turn around soon enough. It always does.

 

[LadyB]

This thread is making me laugh. It's well and truly handbags time :rofl2:

There's certainly no need to be rude about any of the skaters, this is just so cheap. We all know that during the GP series, skaters from the host nation are slightly favoured, not just at SA. We all live with it, the proof is in the GP Final and onwards and upwards from then.
I'm sure Ashley can improve her SP, the music is great, but I expected more groove (better movements to interpret the music) in her programme. I liked Gracie more yesterday and hope she can live up to expectations with her FS. I very much hope Gabby can get on the podium, as I really loved her performance.
Love Sima's choice of music, but she really needs some serious tweaking. Go girls :clapper:

 

[andromache]

So you are saying Ashley was overscored here? Just for the record?

By a few points, yes, but the placements are still correct.

I understand the outrage over her scores in transitions and in skating skills, but I find those scores to be on-track with the ISU's overall policy of "score every PCS category about the same for all the top skaters." They don't use the PCS marks they way they should, and it sucks, but Ashley isn't the only skater to benefit from a boost in a category or two because she's great in the others. Almost every skater has a weakness in PCS, but if they are strong in everything else and not bad in TES, than the judges reward them anyway.

I think being critical of how judges evaluate PCS is justified; however, limiting that criticism to a few skaters or blaming their nationality is unfair.

 

[el henry]

To make America great again, why else?

Wow, I wish I had known that earlier! I wouldn't have to worry about Jason or Adam or Max ever again, cause all the international judges just want to make America great again.

Or is that only the ladies?

 

[berry8]

_
Well,at the wc were skaters who were more swimming on ice than skating. So this argument is not valid.
see the list https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_World_Figure_Skating_Championships

Would you mind explaining me what a world-class figure skater is according to (VERY YOURS) point of view?

 

[kiara_bleu]

I also think Ashley was overscored and I thought she had a much stronger short last year with this one over relying on top half movements. I also thought she had too many stops and poses in this program. But to go as far as denegrating her skills as a world class skater and degrading her by comparing her to strippers and other females who use their sexuality for money is over the line. I think you can make a point that other skaters have better skating skills than her without going to this low. It just smacks of bitterness and sour grapes.

 

[Barb]

Okay I'm pulling on my knowledge of dance history (which is now in my distant past) but if I remember correctly the tango was banned in several places in the early part of the 20th C. My point is that the tango is not romantic per say like the Rumba or Samba. It's sensual and should be performed as such.

oh, ok. Like the lambada, when you see now that dance seems so innocent compared with the current dances

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I think if you choose music that is sexual like Sweet Dreams then you perform with the music not around it. If she'd been pelvic thrusting to the Nutcracker Suite then that would seem odd but Sweet Dreams is about the nature and complexity of sexual relationships and getting what you need while giving someone else what they want as well.

Oh man.....that would be priceless.

 

[ancientpeas]

I think Canadians are overscored sometimes at Skate Canada.

I usually don't understand GOEs which often seem to arbitrary and awarded for reasons other than what is happening on the ice. It's like the artistic impression marks of the old system. To me the only elements that should get a plus 3 are exceptional ones: Han Yan's triple axel springs readily to mind. An underrotated jump should always get a negative GEO to me. That is one of the few ways to reward someone who actually turns the jump all the way.

Do I agree with the placements after 1st and 2nd. No. I think Mao should be 3rd and Gabby 4th and Gracie 5th. But devolving into name calling hardly seems productive. You could always contact the ISU and complain. If enough people did that things might change in judging. Otherwise we are all just spitting into the wind and wondering why our faces are wet.

Thought of another exceptional element that deserves a plus 3: The German pair's triple twist (maybe T/M as well).

 

[andromache]

Sounds nice. But weren't you one of the ones around this time last year 'complaining' about Tuktik's over scoring? It's fine, most of us do it... just depends on who's getting over scored at the time.

That's totally fair. I think my perspective has just changed since then, and I would rather discuss the programs and the skating than the scores! Even the costumes are more fun to talk about than the scores!

Honestly, in spite of all the URs, I thought last night was super enjoyable. There were some botched landings but few falls, Sima, Mariah, and Gabby were all unexpected delights for me, Gracie didn't skate as badly as she could have, and Ashley slayed.

Mao's SP is nice, but I prefer her LP. Her SP is too muted for me, though her makeup was totally on point. Also, my boyfriend loved her dramatic costume, but felt it didn't fit the music.

All the Japanese ladies other than Satoko should fear Mai Mihara. Her programs are a little generic, but she could be a Worlds team threat if she stays consistent. She's fun to watch if uninspiring.

 

[solani]

Wow, I wish I had known that earlier! I wouldn't have to worry about Jason or Adam or Max ever again, cause all the international judges just want to make America great again.

Or is that only the ladies?

Only the ladies. Who cares about the rest? :dev3:

oh, ok. Like the lambada, when you see now that dance seems so innocent compared with the current dances

Does anyone know - has there ever been a lambada program in figure skating?

 

[gravy]

Only the ladies. Who cares about the rest? :dev3:


Does anyone know - has there ever been a lambada program in figure skating?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nBGz6vLRnM

 

[ancientpeas]

Maybe back when the lambada was so popular that they had movies about it someone did one in ice dance?

Someone had to do a dirty dancing number in the 90's. I can just imagine the pearl clutching then if Ashley's performance tonight upset them.

 

[qwertyskates]

I think it's GREAT to express a certain sensuality, but not sexuality, in a sports competition. If Ashley progresses to a more "Maria Butyrskaya" type of sensuality, and ups her technical contents, I think she will get a stab at the top of the world. Charisma deserves high PCS, period, and there's a compelling, magnetic female charisma to Maria. However, sexuality is a far different thing and Ashley has been inhabiting that space more often, with her previous programs, though this SP isn't. So I do appreciate her moving in the right direction.

*Edit* Let me change my mind, even the original Lambada video is sexual but it is great, as there's nothing but human in sexuality, it's exuberant on its own. I guess it's when there's a layer of commercial stench to sex that bothers me, though I'm fine with consensual adults doing whatever they desire. It's the whole angle of exploitation behind it that makes my toes curl when watched in an innocent context like figure skating. I guess that's the real visceral reaction to the "sexy" programs.

 

[LadyB]

I also think Ashley was overscored and I thought she had a much stronger short last year

That's exactly what I meant. Lasty year's 'Rhythm section' was absolutely superb. She is perfectly able to put the same spin on 'Sweet Dreams' and I hope she and Rafa will. It's still early days... :agree2:

 

[Zhenya is DIVINE]

I don't know what alternate universe these judges are living in where Ashley is anywhere near Mao in PCS. Especially now that Mao has upped her artistry factor big time this season! What a farce!

 

[piona]

Would you mind explaining me what a world-class figure skater is according to (VERY YOURS) point of view?

Start watching Russian and Japanese skating for a while and when you suddenly see a Murrica, you know instantly, that he/she doesnt belong to the circle of the world-class.