2016-2017 State of U.S. Men Figure Skating
- Thread starter Mrs. P
- Start date
Nathan is giving some face....channeling Ashley Wagner.
Sloppy landings on a few of those jumps.
Tara says the "quality of his skating needs to come up a little bit."
Johnny say he needs to "point his toes" and that would help him choreographically -- I agree. Doesn't he have ballet training?
I think one thing I'd like to see is that he have a little more variation in his movements. Basically he's pretty much doing his whole skate upright. He's really using a lot of upper body movements and his arms.
I agree that he skated well considering he had to go after Yuzuru.
Sloppy landings on a few of those jumps.
Tara says the "quality of his skating needs to come up a little bit."
Johnny say he needs to "point his toes" and that would help him choreographically -- I agree. Doesn't he have ballet training?
I think one thing I'd like to see is that he have a little more variation in his movements. Basically he's pretty much doing his whole skate upright. He's really using a lot of upper body movements and his arms.
I agree that he skated well considering he had to go after Yuzuru.
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- Joined
- Feb 27, 2012
If I didn't want to celebrate the successes of a skater because their fans annoyed me, I would celebrate the successes of zero skaters.
Agree :agree:.
As a general comment, I would add that I think every single one of us (certainly including myself) lives in a big ol' glass house ... and sometimes can be tone-deaf to how our own comments on what is good about someone we admire (with or without explicit comparison to other skaters) are crossing the line and turning other fans off from the object of our admiration.
As for Nathan, I am happy to celebrate his success -- without feeling any disloyalty to other U.S. men who continue to have my long-standing support.
IMO, it comes down to seeing the glass as half-full or half-empty.
To be in the mix at 2017 and 2018 Nats, Max definitely has his work cut out for him.
I had edited my previous post to add a quote from you about Max's "uphill climb" -- because I do agree with that assessment.
FWIW (half-full alert
), Max was 1.02 points away from the bronze at Cup of China. Not a medal, but IMO, his trend within this season has been upward.(I think Adam is the only other U.S man to beat Shoma [ETA: as a senior], by 0.19 at 2016 Worlds. Max's margin of victory at Skate America was not much bigger.)
(ETA, corrections/additions:
- Josh beat Shoma at 2015 Four Continents.
- Ross and Tim also beat Shoma -- at the 2015 US Classic.)
- Ross and Tim also beat Shoma -- at the 2015 US Classic.)
I don't really have an opinion one way or the other on whether changing coaches would be a good idea for Max -- except to agree with you that what Max himself thinks is what matters most.
My only other thought is that I would feel a bit sad if Max were to leave Colorado Springs, b/c he seems to get a ton of inspiration and moral support from OTC athletes from other sports.
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Nathan Chen's on right now. Going to live comment on this. Frida want to join me?
Sorry, I was too focused on watching skating to comment on this.
No worries. I'm glad I got to watch it a second time while fully awake. The first time I watched his program, I was sleepy and had spent the last 30 minutes trying to entertain my daughter who decided to wake up in the middle of the night.
I appreciate the program a little more --even though I still feel the first half is basically a jump display ---albeit to the music.
Also I haven't heard Nathan talk -- he has a real deep voice. That was a bit surprising.
I don't know if I agree with the toe point. He does have ballet training and his extensions and arms show that. What I would like to see is more emphasis on his movements for musical accents and energy. But yes, more variation of movement would help as well.
They think it's nerves that caused his mistakes. I agree. That crowd went nuts for Yuzuru. Anyone that has to focus that will be nervous. Not to mention he idolizes Yuzuru as well and is sharing the ice with him for the first time. Yikes.
I like the NBC broadcast for the close ups. I like seeing his facial expressions.
Sadly, I find myself wondering whether the international "competitive window" for Jason is closing. He's only landed a quad once in competition ( I think?) and lost all of last season to injury, poor guy. When I see Hanyu, Javi, Shoma, Chen, Jin etc landing quad toes, quad flips, quad sals, and quad lutzes, some in combo with triples, and often landing multiple types of quads, and in both the SP and FS, well....it doesn't seem particularly encouraging for Jason (or any of the other US male skaters except for Chen).
Wonder if he'd do better with a different coach like Rafa? His former training partner, Mariah Bell, has dramatically improved her jump technique with Arutyunian.
Wonder if he'd do better with a different coach like Rafa? His former training partner, Mariah Bell, has dramatically improved her jump technique with Arutyunian.
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No worries. I'm glad I got to watch it a second time while fully awake. The first time I watched his program, I was sleepy and had spent the last 30 minutes trying to entertain my daughter who decided to wake up in the middle of the night.
I appreciate the program a little more --even though I still feel the first half is basically a jump display ---albeit to the music.
Also I haven't heard Nathan talk -- he has a real deep voice. That was a bit surprising.
Yeah, I can't remember the last time I heard him outloud. It's just a reminder our little Nathan has grown up. It's a little sad but I'm so proud of him.
I think the toe point would be that little polish that would really enhance the entire package. He actually has much better toe point in his Chopin FS from the 2014-2015 season (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5h0sebFPGo) and I've seen some pretty nice turnout in some of his other junior programs.
I agree that he needs some more sharp movements to the staccato parts of the music. But it's going to take some work before we see a bit of fluidity/variation of movement. For his ballet training, he isn't the most flexible skater -- so it does make it more challenging.
I responded in the Men's FS thread.
But I will add here that Jason has never lacked competitive fire and motivation. As long as what we saw wasn't because of some unfortunate thing (like injury or sickness) -- you can bet he's going to go back and work hard to be prepared for nationals.He's generally focused on his own personal goals and doing the best he can do and seeing where he falls among the top men. He also has always been on his own time table.
Jason is working with Frank Carroll as well, FWIW.
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- Joined
- Oct 23, 2015
Congrats to Nathan and Adam on making the GPF!
May you both have great performances, I won't be overly optimistic and hope for no splats, but please at least no injury-causing splats.
I only skimmed over the last few pages, but do we know if Jason is injured? Because Golden Spin may not be the best idea depending on his physical condition...
May you both have great performances, I won't be overly optimistic and hope for no splats, but please at least no injury-causing splats.
I only skimmed over the last few pages, but do we know if Jason is injured? Because Golden Spin may not be the best idea depending on his physical condition...
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
Ten is a point ahead of Chen and Brown and 1.5 ahead of Rippon. Remove him and the US men are sitting 6, 7, 8, which is on the cusp of 3 spots. Of course, Chen has also beaten Chan and Rippon has also beaten Jin.
We don't know for sure. It wouldn't be shocking if it was injury. But I think if it was a serious injury, he would have W/D. I think he's learned from last time not to fight through pain. It might have been something less serious that affected his skate here. Or equipment failure. Or just plain old competitive nerves. Who knows.
Watching him in the K&C on HD --- he looks really disappointed, shocked even. Also in the SP, again in the K&C, I remember that Kori was like "It's OK" or "It will be OK" while Jason sort of had this grimace-smile on his face. Which tells me he was prepared to do much better than he did.
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- Joined
- Jul 31, 2014
To everyone thinking Jason might be injured. Do we really think he would have done the exhibition injured? Because I really am hoping that most skaters would take care of themselves and heal/rest rather than doing exhibitions.
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2015
Yeah, we don't know, I don't like to speculate but I've seen those skate with series injuries with or without painkillers (though I think Asians do this more) :hopelessness:
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2012
It already has been much discussed/debated on GS in multiple threads.
I do not recall how much of the discussion took place in this thread.
I do recall that a whole separate thread in The Edge was started for the interview.
The interview caused some strong disagreements, so I don't know whether people will feel like rehashing their opinions.
Anyone who wants to discuss and/or rehash is free to do so, of course.
Just trying to explain in advance in case your post does not get much response and you are wondering why.
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Thanks for letting me know!
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2015
Flattfan, LOL, I admire your bluntness. I really like Jason's programs, after all, he has Rohene Ward's AMAZING choreography. But he wasn't at his best in the LP.
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2014
For what it's worth, I'm not going to predict the ending of Jason's "competitive window" (which I view as, the chance he can make a case for himself to be considered a future world medal contender post-2018, until this Nationals/Worlds. No one should be written off because of one bad GP.
If Jason wants to make a case for a World medal post-2018 (his only realistic chance to win one, IMO, after a bunch of retirements), he needs to stay on top of the "mid-tier" guys until then. Which is where he was at 2015 Worlds, but the men's field has changed a lot since then, and not in a way that favors Jason's strengths.
If Jason wants to make a case for a World medal post-2018 (his only realistic chance to win one, IMO, after a bunch of retirements), he needs to stay on top of the "mid-tier" guys until then. Which is where he was at 2015 Worlds, but the men's field has changed a lot since then, and not in a way that favors Jason's strengths.
I would say that if anyone, male or female, doesn't start off with some impressive victories, they will not be major players. So I have hope for Nathan, who made the GPF in his first season, but not much hope for Adam, Max or Jason, who have been waiting for their breakthrough season for years. Adam will inspire us with his late in career comebacks, but he will not be a world or Olympic medalist. Jason will inspire us with his dancing and his happy personality, but he will not be a world or Olympic medalist. Max will have fans of his athletic, masculine style, but he will not get a world medal. They are all quality skaters, but not in the league with Evan, Brian, or even Todd Eldredge, who either won medals or were always in medal contention. But Nathan? If he stays healthy and improves his artistry, he may have a chance in 2018 or definitely 2022.
