2016-2017 State of U.S. Men Figure Skating

[karne]

How old is Nathan?

Just turned 17, IIRC. So yes, possibly still growing. And many of his injuries thus far have been related to growth.

Too bad we can combine Adam's artistry and his physical ability (It's the US men's thread, so I'm picking US men to combine Nathan with).

I'm not the kid's biggest fan but I'm pretty sure Nathan is capable of a whole lot more than wiggling his shoulders, winking at the crowd, waggling his fingers, and posing sassily (and somehow this is considered "choreography"). Let's at least raise the bar off the ground for him to aim at.

 

[andromache]

In this thread: if you compliment a skater not named Max or Jason, you're immediately told how wrong you are in the rudest way possible.

 

[amethyst star]

In this thread: if you compliment a skater not named Max or Jason, you're immediately told how wrong you are in the rudest way possible.

I'll take Nathan "wiggling his shoulders" over Max's random dramatic reaches (not matching the music), and blank face skating.

 

[skylark]

Congratulations to Nathan Chen!:hap57::hap93:

Incredible. He's 17 years old, first year senior, at his first GPF, skating against all these seasoned gorgeous skaters ... three of whom are giants in figure skating! And he wins the free skate, first time out. Nathan demonstrated his passion, and desire, and incredible power, drive and focus. Way to go!!!:dance:

Let's also celebrate a milestone for U.S. men. Adam and Nathan, the first two men to make the GPF since Lysacek, Weir and Abbott in 2009. And Nathan is the first US man to medal since Abbott won bronze in 2011. (if I'm not mistaken.... I can't check Wiki right at the moment .... we have Lake Effect snow, and the Wind Effect is presently wreaking havoc with my internet.)

A silver medal in this men's field is simply amazing. Be injury free, Nathan, follow coaches', doctors, and trainers' advice. But mostly, 3 cheers!:yes:

 

[chuckm]

Nathan didn't "just turn 17". His birthday is May 5, which makes him 17 + 7 months.

 

[Tavi...]

Although Nathan's not my favorite skater, I have to give credit where credit is due: he's an absolutely lethal competitor, which is a rare talent and one that's necessary to rise to the top. I'm also really impressed by the steady strides he's made since the beginning of the season. At Finlandia he was quite sloppy; today he got plus GOE on all of his elements. Barring the unexpected, I can't see any way that he won't be the 2017 US champion / on the World Team in Helsinki. So the more interesting question for me is who will claim the second spot on the World Team.

Until NHK I would have said Jason for sure, but I think his underperformance at NHK really hurt him, as did Adam's today. As to Max, so far he hasn't matched his achievements from last year, but he has a new SP and is reportedly adding back a 4T (to his FS?). So all three are question marks, but I think it's most likely to one of them; Ross, Tim, Grant, Alexander, and Vincent are all languishing pretty far down on the Seasons Best list at the moment, which in my mind takes them out of contention. Of course with USFS, you never know.

One of the best things about Nathan's strong performance today is that we may actually be able to gain 3 spots for the Olympics. If he skates cleanly, his fellow Team member might not need to place higher than about 7-9 for the 3rd spot to happen - placements that any of Adam, Jason, and Max have a decent shot at achieving.

 

[Jammers]

Not to get ahead myself but if Nathan does make the World team Raf should ban him from skating in the gala again. :think:

 

[Nathan13]

Not to get ahead myself but if Nathan does make the World team Raf should ban him from skating in the gala again. :think:

I was thinking the same thing :hopelessness: Just skip 4CC too, you don't need it Nathan

 

[chairmanmao]

I'm not the kid's biggest fan but I'm pretty sure Nathan is capable of a whole lot more than wiggling his shoulders, winking at the crowd, waggling his fingers, and posing sassily (and somehow this is considered "choreography"). Let's at least raise the bar off the ground for him to aim at.

I'm glad we have the same opinion of Rippon. Abbott I believe is still an active skater, Farris hasn't retired that long and even Brown who he competes right now are what American skaters should be aspiring for in terms of artistic quality not the saucy dross choreography of Rippon.

 

[karne]

Nathan didn't "just turn 17". His birthday is May 5, which makes him 17 + 7 months.

Apologies, that was my error as I was mixing it up with when Medvedeva turned 17, which really was recently. Two conversations at once rarely ends well.

The 4Lz-3T at the start was quite the beauty.

 

[el henry]

Well I'll say it too, and I don't think it can be ascribed to uber fandom (although Lord knows on these Boards anything can be ascribed to anything): Nathan has gotten hurt. More than other male US skaters. And I hope it has stopped, but I still fear for him. So there.

Nathan's approach to skating is not my preferred approach, but he has improved. And those jumps are amazing. And if those jumps are on, those jumps will be rewarded. (Hey, I had him third in the prediction game. Then again, I had Javi to win) He *still* needs an LP, the second coming of John Curry he's not, but props to him for working the system. Major props.

At this point, Nathan will need to be in a body cast to not get sent to Worlds, and like @Tavi, I would have thought Adam was second after Jason's NHK meltdown, but now? personally I would rather watch Jason, Adam or Max than Nathan, but my personal preference isn't going to form the Worlds team.

And if he keeps this up, and if he stays healthy, with such strong competitors for "No. 2" the US should have three spots in 2018. Woot!

 

[chairmanmao]

US Fed is going to send him 100% irregardless of his placement at Nationals. No ifs and but.They must know now he needs exposure to increase his credentials and get those PCS rep points so he could compete with Big 3 going into the Olympic season. His 2 direct competitors will never cut it and the've never have. To put it into perspective the TSS of Fernandez who put out b2b disaster skates at GPF is still higher than Rippon and Brown's PB. In a field with the Big 3, Uno, Jin and Ten who expects those two to make any sort of impact?

 

[karne]

It will come down to the Corsaire, the Spy, the Clubber, and the Matador. I don't think anyone else will be close unless someone has a total meltdown.

I'll be interested in the SP scores as these have seemed wildly inconsistent over the last two years.

2015
1. Jason Brown 93.36 - a flawless performance but sans quad
2. Joshua Farris 90.40 - turn out on the end of the combination, sans quad ( :sad21: )
3. Jeremy Abbott 89.93 - sans quad, wonky 3A and dropped levels
4. Max Aaron 85.78 - one quad with wonky landing, but this was footloose so I'm not complaining too hard about that PCS.

2016
1. Max Aaron 91.83 - flawless performance including 4-3 combo
2. Ross Miner 90.90 - clean performance but no quad
3. Adam Rippon 88.01 - sloppy combo and dropped levels
4. Nathan Chen 86.33 - two quads attempted, combo one completed, other quad + 3A sloppy, V on one spin

Looking at the results 2015 v 2016 makes zero sense and makes me wonder where the whole "ohhhh arteestes are at such a disadvantage because evil quad brigade!" comes from. Patently untrue in the US.

Nathan has the most margin for error, and Max the least; Adam and Jason will probably still end up in the mid-80s with errors (assuming they're not bomby errors). There are question marks for all of them, but Max is the one with the most power to upset a whole lot of people if he goes clean, particularly if the 4T makes a successful return in his SP.

I suppose the real question is: if it comes to that, would the USFS allow a team of Nathan and Max? I don't see any reason why they shouldn't if Max does well at Nationals.

 

[Tavi...]

US Fed is going to send him 100% irregardless of his placement at Nationals. No ifs and but.They must know now he needs exposure to increase his credentials and get those PCS rep points so he could compete with Big 3 going into the Olympic season. His 2 direct competitors will never cut it and the've never have. To put it into perspective the TSS of Fernandez who put out b2b disaster skates at GPF is still higher than Rippon and Brown's PB. In a field with the Big 3, Uno, Jin and Ten who expects those two to make any sort of impact?

I haven't looked Adam's protocols in detail, but I wouldn't be so quick to write Jason off. He had a disaster at NHK, but to that point in the season he was skating extremely well, was making progress with the 4T, and was landing 4S regularly in practice and planning to integrate it into his programs once the 4T was stable. If he can master both those jumps in competition - and I realize that's not a given - with his other unique strengths, I would say yeah, he'll absolutely make an impact.

You're pretty disparaging about his PB vs Javi's TSS, but neither of Jason's programs at SA were clean; Javi benefited from inflated PCS here, as he frequently does; and the difference in the two scores you're referring to is minuscule (0.39 points). Had Jason skated clean at SA, as Nathan did today, he would have scored about 15-16 additional points. In other words, his total score with one 4T landed in each program would have been 284-285 - about the same as Nathan's with a clean 4 quad FS, and enough for silver at the GPF. Is that enough to beat Hanyu or Fernandez at their best? Of course not - but let's not forget that Nathan medaled today because Javi and Patrick fell apart: he wouldn't have done so otherwise.

ETA Karne, if Max outskates Adam and Jason at Nats I think USFS would have no problem with a Max / Nathan team.

 

[Icey]

Max and Nathan will be the world team imo.

 

[narcissa]

Wait, doesn't the winner automatically get a spot? Unless Nathan is national champ, it would be Nathan + whoever wins...

 

[karne]

Yes, that's correct. National Champion is guaranteed Worlds.

 

[FlattFan]

Seriously, Nathan just beat an almost flawless with 3 quads 2 3A Shoma. He also beat a 3 clean quads Yuzuru. None of the other US guys can dream of coming close, they deserve to stay home. Jason can stay home with no quad. Same with Adam. Stop it with the artistry non sense. They ain't that artistic compare to Shoma and Yuzuru.

 

[Tavi...]

Seriously, Nathan just beat an almost flawless with 3 quads 2 3A Shoma. He also beat a 3 clean quads Yuzuru. None of the other US guys can dream of coming close, they deserve to stay home. Jason can stay home with no quad. Same with Adam. Stop it with the artistry non sense. They ain't that artistic compare to Shoma and Yuzuru.

A chacun son goût: I love Hanyu, but as to artistry I'll take Jason over Hanyu and Shoma every time.

 

[narcissa]

Let's just say that I'm now a big fan of Nathan after today, watching him successfully land four freakin' quads in one program?! Blew me away. That 4Lz+3T was worth almost 20 points, it's insane... I'm glad there's someone for me to root for in US figure skating today, and I hope he stays uninjured because he can really start to develop artistically as he gets older.

To be honest I've always thought US men's FS was a mess, with the lack of technical content and Jason's and Adam's "artistry"...sorry but the "artistry VS quads" argument they always make, make me cringe...looking at Yuzuru and Patrick who IMO have both better artistry AND jumps.

I'm sorry but what was with his swan program? Having never watched Adam before today, I knew he made it to the GPF based on artistry because he had no quads, and so I was expecting something, well, artistic, rather than cheesy arm movements and suggestive posing.

Just my two cents.