2016-17 State of Russian Ice Dance

[katha]

I still say this comes down to problems in skater development and coaching. The whole program seems to be in need of some re-thinking. Why can't juniors transition properly into the senior ranks? Why are there constant, constant problems with TES and with program construction that suits COP? Kustarova hasn't so far managed to transition skaters successfully from junior to senior level. Svinin/Zhuk have had limited success at the Worlds stage, even though they've been in business for a long time. Zhulin is hella inconsistent (IMO the programs B/S have this year...once again don't do them justice). Gorshkov petered out. At this point I think it's an easy excuse to point to the split of I/K and pretend that everything would have been fine otherwise (and to pretend that the likeliest outcome wouldn't have been even more disasters and missed podiums LOL, I mean they had four years of trainwrecking under their belt at that point...), when in fact Russian ice dance has had systemic problems for a long time.

But nah, more twinkly flowy stuff certainly isn't the answer. They don't need to copy Montreal or anything, they need to find a way to make the strengths and traditions of Russian ice dance work in the context of the new system. And I feel that this is something that needs to come from within the Russian ice dance community, it needs to be an organic development.

 

[nevergonnadance]

For the record Papadakis & Cizeron's 2015 program was taken from a contemporary ballet "Le Parc" which was created in 1994. Contemporary dance is nothing new in ice dance. Torvill & Dean did started it and it was huge in the 1990s.

 

[madison]

I don't know if it's true, but I've read that Anna Yanovkaya will represent Hungary in a couple with Adam Lukacs.

 

[Skater Boy]

Nevertheless, I honestly hope that Russia only earns two spots for ice dance at the Olympics next year. Russia doesn't need S/K and/or I/Z messing up their Olympic team. I'd rather place my bet on S/B.

I am not sure having a third Russian team would mess up their Oly team lol. But I don't think that is an option or likely to happen given the current ice dance market. If things go a bit bad B and S would be behind P/C; V/M; Shibs; Chock and Bates, C/L, W/P; G/P, H/D, which means three teams for Russia would be impossible.

 

[gmyers]

I still say this comes down to problems in skater development and coaching. The whole program seems to be in need of some re-thinking. Why can't juniors transition properly into the senior ranks? Why are there constant, constant problems with TES and with program construction that suits COP? Kustarova hasn't so far managed to transition skaters successfully from junior to senior level. Svinin/Zhuk have had limited success at the Worlds stage, even though they've been in business for a long time. Zhulin is hella inconsistent (IMO the programs B/S have this year...once again don't do them justice). Gorshkov petered out. At this point I think it's an easy excuse to point to the split of I/K and pretend that everything would have been fine otherwise (and to pretend that the likeliest outcome wouldn't have been even more disasters and missed podiums LOL, I mean they had four years of trainwrecking under their belt at that point...), when in fact Russian ice dance has had systemic problems for a long time.

But nah, more twinkly flowy stuff certainly isn't the answer. They don't need to copy Montreal or anything, they need to find a way to make the strengths and traditions of Russian ice dance work in the context of the new system. And I feel that this is something that needs to come from within the Russian ice dance community, it needs to be an organic development.

Interesting you mentioned the whole Russian school thing, because that actually crossed my mind days ago... And I totally agree! I would like to see something different from the Russian Ice Dancers. Perhaps more lyrical, contemporary programs.. It seems like that's where ice dance is going right now. Don't get me wrong, I like classical programs too, but it's honestly getting sick with the Russians... They need fresh, new material to work with. I'm happy that S/B has a modern sort of SD this season. It's nice to see them incorporate a bit of hip hop to their program. And yes, it is tough to skate next to Lena. She's a powerhouse and I guess that's where the whole Nikita thing comes in again...Fire+Fire=... But I won't go further with that.

If teams want to be successful they must copy all the teams that are successful! The russian teams to need to copy Montreal if they want to succeed now! Are they supposed to waste their careers and talent waiting for Russian style to be popular again? There is only IJS ice dance and Russians aren't doing it. They are the only ones not doing and why theirs is the only ice dance program in the world that is collapsing.

 

[Aqua Lady]

On the whole Olympic team thing, IN ALL HONESTY, one of the reasons why I don't wanna see 3 Russian dance teams is because I don't wanna see Nikita competing in the Olympics ever again. I know this may sound evil, but it is what is... The guy has problems. A definite example would be the whole Canton issue. What does that say? A professional athlete gets kicked out of a training rink?! WTH, that's appalling. Most importantly of all, when you stab someone behind the back like he did, you don't deserve those once in a lifetime opportunities. Lol honestly, if there are 3 spots, which the likelihood is 0.1%, I'd rather see I/Z or Zahorski/Guerreiro.

 

[madison]

On the whole Olympic team thing, IN ALL HONESTY, one of the reasons why I don't wanna see 3 Russian dance teams is because I don't wanna see Nikita competing in the Olympics ever again. I know this may sound evil, but it is what is... The guy has problems. A definite example would be the whole Canton issue. What does that say? A professional athlete gets kicked out of a training rink?! WTH, that's appalling. Most importantly of all, when you stab someone behind the back like he did, you don't deserve those once in a lifetime opportunities. Lol honestly, if there are 3 spots, which the likelihood is 0.1%, I'd rather see I/Z or Zahorski/Guerreiro.

Or they will choose to promote Loboda/Drozd as a new team for the future, as they did in the past.
Anyway, I hope Russia will get 3 spots. It would be important for the development of ice dance and promotion of new teams.

 

[gmyers]

Or they will choose to promote Loboda/Drozd as a new team for the future, as they did in the past.
Anyway, I hope Russia will get 3 spots. It would be important for the development of ice dance and promotion of new teams.

I think what's most important for development is watching US or Canadian nationals not competing in a wrong and off putting way.

 

[lavoix]

I don't know if it's true, but I've read that Anna Yanovkaya will represent Hungary in a couple with Adam Lukacs.

Where will they train?

 

[bramweld]

If teams want to be successful they must copy all the teams that are successful! The russian teams to need to copy Montreal if they want to succeed now! Are they supposed to waste their careers and talent waiting for Russian style to be popular again? There is only IJS ice dance and Russians aren't doing it. They are the only ones not doing and why theirs is the only ice dance program in the world that is collapsing.

The truth is they can't manage that style. The only team that could they've relegated to fourth place. Oh well.

But in all seriousness, if this is what ID has come down to, what is there to look forward to? :disagree:

 

[bramweld]

On the whole Olympic team thing, IN ALL HONESTY, one of the reasons why I don't wanna see 3 Russian dance teams is because I don't wanna see Nikita competing in the Olympics ever again. I know this may sound evil, but it is what is... The guy has problems. A definite example would be the whole Canton issue. What does that say? A professional athlete gets kicked out of a training rink?! WTH, that's appalling. Most importantly of all, when you stab someone behind the back like he did, you don't deserve those once in a lifetime opportunities. Lol honestly, if there are 3 spots, which the likelihood is 0.1%, I'd rather see I/Z or Zahorski/Guerreiro.

That's a bit extreme isn't it? That third spot isn't set aside necessarily for Katsalapov. But rather the team that earns it from the onset of the olympic season.

 

[Aqua Lady]

I'm sorry, but I had to let that out... I do hope the third spot isn't set aside for S/K and I most definitely don't think so. Next season, with the SDs being Rumba-patterned, I actually think I/Z will do well with it. Elena certainly brings a lot of personality to her skating and that's what Latin is all about... Vivacious female presence Not to mention, the last time Latin was the SD theme, I/Z won Russian Nats, qualified for GPF, Euros, and Worlds.

 

[madison]

Where will they train?

It seems that with N. Morozov:think:

 

[Skater Boy]

I think it is very sad that I and K did not stay together. Yes, they could be unpredictable but I think they could have been the "it" team. Fire and ice, drama, power, finesse, grace and presence. These new variations don't work. I am not knowledgeable enough to say the Russian school is dead but these skaters were using American based coaches until being sent home or at least some of them. I really would love to see them train with other coaches like Marie France - whatever happened to her husband she seems to get all the credit and he seems lost or forgotten. Or are they even together still? I never know anything lol.

 

[Aqua Lady]

Marie France and Patrice are still very much together. I think it's because MF does more of the choreography and Patch is more on the technical side of things... I agree, I think it would be nice to see some Russian couples train in North America. MF&P would be a good change or perhaps Igor Shpilband...

 

[bramweld]

Marie France and Patrice are still very much together. I think it's because MF does more of the choreography and Patch is more on the technical side of things... I agree, I think it would be nice to see some Russian couples train in North America. MF&P would be a good change or perhaps Igor Shpilband...

Given the FD Igor saddled I/Z with this year I have to ask what? If he wanted to show them off in a new light this was anything but. The choreo itself banishes Ruslan into the background. Why? Why not allow them to polish Frida to perfection. Najarro could have helped with that and then they'd only need to perfect the SD. He did this for C/B so why not them? It would have been the winning combination. I wonder who balked him or the fed? See why I think Russia's problems are purely of their own making. They are one of those entities adept at snatching defeat from victory But lets see how they progress

 

[Marta25]

Given the FD Igor saddled I/Z with this year I have to ask what? If he wanted to show them off in a new light this was anything but. The choreo itself banishes Ruslan into the background. Why? Why not allow them to polish Frida to perfection. Najarro could have helped with that and then they'd only need to perfect the SD. He did this for C/B so why not them? It would have been the winning combination. I wonder who balked him or the fed? See why I think Russia's problems are purely of their own making. They are one of those entities adept at snatching defeat from victory But lets see how they progress

From Elena's interview in May it sounded like they had real issues to decide on a music for the FD and when Igor suggested Bollywood, they just went with it. I think it was right of him to choose something that is so different to what everyone else is doing, but it was the wrong theme for them. To me it looked like he used the same strategy on IZ he usually uses with CB, where the choreo mostly focusses on Madison while Evan is in the background.

 

[bramweld]

From Elena's interview in May it sounded like they had real issues to decide on a music for the FD and when Igor suggested Bollywood, they just went with it. I think it was right of him to choose something that is so different to what everyone else is doing, but it was the wrong theme for them. To me it looked like he used the same strategy on IZ he usually uses with CB, where the choreo mostly focusses on Madison while Evan is in the background.

More like they pasted on their plastic smiles and tried to make the best of it. Over the course of their stay as they saw that this was really going to happen, their spirits sank as they wondered why leave Russia and the support of family for this, especially this hapless choreography!! I/Z are polite, maybe too polite for their own good. It was quite depressing seeing their talent wasted on such a program, for so many months!!!

 

[Aqua Lady]

Given the FD Igor saddled I/Z with this year I have to ask what? If he wanted to show them off in a new light this was anything but. The choreo itself banishes Ruslan into the background. Why? Why not allow them to polish Frida to perfection. Najarro could have helped with that and then they'd only need to perfect the SD. He did this for C/B so why not them? It would have been the winning combination. I wonder who balked him or the fed? See why I think Russia's problems are purely of their own making. They are one of those entities adept at snatching defeat from victory But lets see how they progress

The thing with I/Z's disastrous FD this season is that Elena is such a dominant character on the ice. Ruslan isn't as expressive as she is, thus resulting to an imbalance in the performance itself. Technically, they are also not on the same level... But we'll see... Maybe next season, they could pull something unexpected! I think they could be the third ranked Russian team.

 

[bramweld]

The thing with I/Z's disastrous FD this season is that Elena is such a dominant character on the ice. Ruslan isn't as expressive as she is, thus resulting to an imbalance in the performance itself. Technically, they are also not on the same level... But we'll see... Maybe next season, they could pull something unexpected! I think they could be the third ranked Russian team.

She was probably trying to compensate for the non existent transitions and not very interesting/innovative choreography. Coming from what they had last year in Frida she must have cried herself to sleep every night!! And yes Ruslan is not nearly as expressive as this dance needs him to be so again, how could this have been a prudent choice? To his credit though his presentation is much better in the SD. I think they need either classical or more character driven material for their FDs. I'm just an ID novice and even this is as clear as day. :confused2: