2017 Jr Worlds Ladies FS

[mcq]

Well being as consistent should be a start, no?

That said, I'm all for seeing more 3As. Hopefully Rika is healthy again and can skate (and jump) to her potential again next season. And ta-da, there's a potential game changer. I also wonder, looking at Kaoris big and amazing 2A, if she could do it

I am actually excited lol. The jump layout for the ladies has been exhausted and repeated it is getting a bit stagnant (and boring) for me. Though Alina is not really my favorite, I appreciate her doing 3lz3lo. I hope she backload less though, I understand why she did it this season, because she need to turn heads in such a packed field. But she has 2 3lz and 2 3f, she already has higher BV than Zhenya. She might not need it for her senior season, she can just do a 2A and 3S in the first half, probably only 0.7-0.8 pts less in BV and I bet most people would complain less about backloading.
Actually, i think she improved a bit, she used to not have a good flow out of her jumps but she worked on it. So she and her team is aware of her flaws and is still improving.

 

[moriel]

Fair point. The thing is that if they try to fight it that long they'd get all kinds of frightening health issues. Ever heard of the female athlete triad? It's very unlikely that a girl could sustain that until the age of 18 or even compete at an elite level. And 18 would be my personal wish, 17 would probably be enough.


Yes, some of them are great when young and are able to sustain. But we wouldn't have lost Yuna and Mao because of a year or two. Since Yuna and Mao the system has changed imo. Coaches in Russia, Japan and South Korea seem to focus largely on very young skaters. Yes, the older skaters are still around but they don't seem to be a priority to any of those coaches. Only Mishin comes to my mind who seems to still support Tuktamysheva and says that he still believes in her.
I just think that this development isn't good for the majority of the girls and not good for figure skating in the long term. A skater should at least have a senior career that covers two Olympics. The very likely loss of Sotknikova and Lipnitskaya is tough for figure skating. Could it have been avoided? I think so.

Anna Pogo comes to mind, and Ashley Wagner.
I think its unfair to keep the girls at their best out of senior level. If the age restriction was 18, we would have NEVER seen Lipnitskaya and Sotnikova, for example, to compete as seniors.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I know I'm supposed to be bellyaching at this stage of an event thread but I just gotta toss a change up out there because it's been a while since I've heard that Janet Jackson song they played during Alina's KnC slow motion music. Kind of made my day a little brighter

 

[Kittosuni]

uhhh are you telling me 2 elements in the first half and 7 triples 2 Axels 2 spins is balanced?

Like again YOU keep saying in the CO CRITERIA this is considered UNBALANCED so I ask you seriously, where? pls show it

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Why has the extra points awarded in the second half begin with anyways? It was because skaters were front loading programs

Yes

 

[silverfoxes]

Fair point. The thing is that if they try to fight it that long they'd get all kinds of frightening health issues. Ever heard of the female athlete triad? It's very unlikely that a girl could sustain that until the age of 18 or even compete at an elite level. And 18 would be my personal wish, 17 would probably be enough.


Yes, some of them are great when young and are able to sustain. But we wouldn't have lost Yuna and Mao because of a year or two. Since Yuna and Mao the system has changed imo. Coaches in Russia, Japan and South Korea seem to focus largely on very young skaters. Yes, the older skaters are still around but they don't seem to be a priority to any of those coaches. Only Mishin comes to my mind who seems to still support Tuktamysheva and says that he still believes in her.
I just think that this development isn't good for the majority of the girls and not good for figure skating in the long term. A skater should at least have a senior career that covers two Olympics. The very likely loss of Sotknikova and Lipnitskaya is tough for figure skating. Could it have been avoided? I think so.

How do you know who is a "priority" to their coach? Rukavitsin is not a miracle worker, but he never dumped Alena Leonova or Maria Artemieva. Anna Pogorilaya is obviously Tsareva's #1 priority. Yulia is the only high level skater that Urmanov has - obviously she is his #1 priority as well.

 

[krispy]

Like again YOU keep saying in the CO CRITERIA this is considered UNBALANCED so I ask you seriously, where? pls show it

Are you serious? You don't know what Balance mean?

 

[emzdeluxe]

It's not even three elements in her case, but just two in the first half, which to me personally is frankly appalling. If a skater wants to place every single jumping pass after the halfway point, go for it, but at least balance the first half out! Evgenia (as well as Miki back in 2010~2011) at least had 4 elements to fluff the program up before the flurry of jumps took place. I do have to step back and shake my head, though, when the entire first half consists of just one spin and step sequence. :think: That's not to deny Alina's ability as a skater of course, because she is a special talent and the other top finishers here--Marin, Kaori, Eunsoo, Yuna S.--made this a wonderful competition.

Then you should watch her live believe me its really different..the japanese crowd appreciated Alina's performance you should too..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Mathman]

I get the feeling many complaints about backloading are not because people feel programs are empty in first half, or unbalanced... but because people resent skaters who able to milk more points out of the system than their favourites, and it's an excuse to rip into them.

I get the opposite feeling. I don't think that anyone resents skaters taking advantage of the rules. And the backloading bonus was well-intensioned by the ISU. Its purpose was. as you say, to create more balanced programs, with highlight elements placed throughout the performance. It is not surprising, in retrospect, that our clever skaters and their coaches instead see the rule as a way to squeeze out an extra few tenths of a point.

Still, I think that the ISU needs to re-examine whether or not the rule as currently written accomplishes its original purpose.

 

[mcq]

Yes, some of them are great when young and are able to sustain. But we wouldn't have lost Yuna and Mao because of a year or two. Since Yuna and Mao the system has changed imo. Coaches in Russia, Japan and South Korea seem to focus largely on very young skaters. Yes, the older skaters are still around but they don't seem to be a priority to any of those coaches. Only Mishin comes to my mind who seems to still support Tuktamysheva and says that he still believes in her.
I just think that this development isn't good for the majority of the girls and not good for figure skating in the long term. A skater should at least have a senior career that covers two Olympics. The very likely loss of Sotknikova and Lipnitskaya is tough for figure skating. Could it have been avoided? I think so.

I understand your concern, I share the same concern too. But I don't think increasing age eligibility is the solution. If anything, they would be forced to train harder to maintain their shape and body until they are past 18 years old, which would be more heartbreaking if they got pushed until they mature that much but then still have less than stellar result once they are in senior. In exchange, we would lose the chance of seeing very wonderful and talented skaters like Sotnikova and Yulia shine in the senior field despite not surviving puberty. The peak of ladies skaters' are usually around 13-18, I would say 15 y o is an understandable and rightful age for eligibility. At least for me, I want to see the best skaters at their peak.

 

[solani]

Anna Pogo comes to mind, and Ashley Wagner.
I think its unfair to keep the girls at their best out of senior level. If the age restriction was 18, we would have NEVER seen Lipnitskaya and Sotnikova, for example, to compete as seniors.

Sotnikova was 17 when she won the Olympics and she turned 18 in 2014 so we would have seen her at the Olympics under my "rules".
And regarding Lipnitskaya - I suspect that we would still see her skating now at a top level if she didn't have to go through the process of drinking protein shakes for a year or so when she was 15. But she's Olympic champion so she's definitely not a loser of this system, same goes for Sotnikova. But I would prefer if we could still see both of them compete. We all know that they have the potential.

 

[katymay]

Wow. Marin Honda was spellbinding. Just beautiful and polished. I don't understand the results, but that is skating. Just my opinion, but I don't think Aline is even in the same league. (And I wish she would point her toe/boot-extension bothers me as well as her anemic jumps and skating skills)

 

[Kittosuni]

Are you serious? You don't know what Balance mean?

Dude you keep saying she should be dinged in her CO because she does her all her jumps in the second half and I ask you to support your argument.

Since I dont know what Balanced mean and you know it basing on the CODE, I would love to know and Im sure some people here too. Pls educate me.

 

[OS]

The thing about back loading and imbalanced program should result in deduction on the choreography surely. Am I wrong?

Or is it up to judge's discretion based on what they feel again?

 

[andromache]

I understand your concern, I share the same concern too. But I don't think increasing age eligibility is the solution. If anything, they would be forced to train harder to maintain their shape and body until they are past 18 years old, which would be more heartbreaking if they got pushed until they mature that much but then still have less than stellar result once they are in senior. In exchange, we would lose the chance of seeing very wonderful and talented skaters like Sotnikova and Yulia shine in the senior field despite not surviving puberty. The peak of ladies skaters' are usually around 13-18, I would say 15 y o is an understandable and rightful age for eligibility. At least for me, I want to see the best skaters at their peak.

I think the hope is that a higher eligibility age will encourage coaches to teach and skaters to learn a jump technique that will be sustainable beyond puberty. Theoretically, if Eteri and Yulia had their eyes on 2018 OGM instead of 2014, it's possible Yulia would have trained her jump technique very differently, and learned something that would suit her body long term. Do I personally agree with raising the eligibility age? I don't know. But I can definitely see why it might foster more talent for a longer period of time.

 

[solani]

I understand your concern, I share the same concern too. But I don't think increasing age eligibility is the solution. If anything, they would be forced to train harder to maintain their shape and body until they are past 18 years old, which would be more heartbreaking if they got pushed until they mature that much but then still have less than stellar result once they are in senior. In exchange, we would lose the chance of seeing very wonderful and talented skaters like Sotnikova and Yulia shine in the senior field despite not surviving puberty. The peak of ladies skaters' are usually around 13-18, I would say 15 y o is an understandable and rightful age for eligibility. At least for me, I want to see the best skaters at their peak.

It's not possible for the girls to sustain it until they are 18. They'd get osteoporosis and other scary health issues (female athlete triad). The coaches would have to change their approach. Sotnikova still has the potential but she obviously would be stupid at this point to go against that armada of 14 and 15 year olds.

 

[tikse]

uhhh are you seriously telling me that 2 elements in the first half vs 7 triples 2 Axels 2 spins is balanced?

Why has the extra points awarded in the second half begin with anyways? It was because skaters were front loading programs

Please read this document and show us what's written in it about uneven distribution of elements. And tell us why uneven distribution should affect PCS.

So you think doing 2 elements in 1st half is blatantly unbalanced. Someone may think that doing 2 out of 7 jumping passes (what Honda did) is also blatantly unbalanced. Should Honda's PCS take a hit because of this?

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

The thing about back loading and imbalanced program should result in deduction on the choreography surely. Am I wrong?

Or is it up to judge's discretion based on what they feel again?

Yes...I think you actually are wrong

The world balance only appears in P/E

Performance is the involvement of the skater/couple/teams physically, emotionally and intellectually as they translate the intent of the music and choreography. Execution is the quality of movement and precision in delivery. This includes harmony of movement in pairs, ice dancing and synchronized skating.

Physical, emotional and intellectual involvement
Carriage (and body alignment - synchronized)
Style and individuality/personality
Clarity of movement
Variety and contrast
Projection
Unison and "oneness" (pairs, ice dancing and synchronized skating)
Balance in performance (pairs, ice dancing and synchronized skating)
Spatial awareness between partners - management of the distance between partners and management of changes of hold (pairs, ice dancing and synchronized skating)

It refers to performance level and not placement of technical elements from what I'm reading.


*the word balance appears in SS definition but in regard to mastering physical balance

 

[krispy]

"Proportion (equal weight of all parts)
Each part and section has equal weight in achieving the aesthetic pursuit of the composition."

If you don't know what this means then this debate is over

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

"Proportion (equal weight of all parts)
Each part and section has equal weight in achieving the aesthetic pursuit of the composition."

If you don't know what this means then this debate is over

Couldn't a heavy and long StSeq achieve the same "weight" on a program as a few quickly strung together jump passes?