2017 Worlds Men's FS

[TerpsichoreFS]

If Hanyu gets silver next year, won't he have the same olympic - world medals as yuna kim?

 

[KatGrace1925]

Lol, no, it's not controversial.

I'm just seeing a few strange posts that make no sense to me.

 

[Rissa]

I so hope that this second bronze for Boyang will finally show the judges that he is no fluke. I hate how he basically became from wonder to loser the minute Nathan Chen arrived on the scene. Good for him!

Here, I agree. Boyang may not be an artiste but he's plenty of fun to watch when he's on.

I'm just seeing a few strange posts that make no sense to me.

I've only read one (chairmanmao), but I haven't dug through all the pages yet. Most of it seemes to be "All hail to Lord Hanyu"

 

[4everchan]

I would like to declare that, like Sushi, the quadruple loop jump is now a Japanese heritage.

it's not exclusive found in japan... plus the first one was landed in canada (by yuzu at ACI)... a quad loop has yet to be landed in japan's nationals but was landed at canadian nationals finally, kevin reynolds, oh look another canadian attempted the quad loop many in 2013.... without much success... but if i am not mistaken, he would have been the first to attempt it

but of course, there is no denying that yuzu and shoma are quad loop kings

 

[NAOTMAA]

Can someone explain to me the change in quality of Nathan Chen's skating to justify the huge bump in marks he has received this season

I mean I definitely see some improvements but hardly anything spectacular that explains the marks. Does it come down to the fan hype and the ISU and USFSA simply jumping on the bandwagon

 

[Rissa]

Happy that Yuzuru Hanyu won a second world title, and I marvel at his SP repeatedly, though his FS didn't thrill me as much. He's too great a skater to have "only" one world title. A bit weird coincidence that in both of his world wins, he needed a PCS advantage over a fellow Japanese teammate who skated brilliantly enough to win. Given his amazing technical arsenal, it's just surprising that his wins came down to PCS. (I am not saying he doesn't deserve the higher PCS advantage. Just surprised that he wasn't able to win on technical merit alone either time.)

Yuzuru's TES was in FS was 6 points higher than Shoma's. He made up for the SP difference as much in TES as in PCS. But it must be said that an on-point Shoma is not easy to beat. Boy's got the tech with the best of them - at least in the eyes of the judges.

Well, judges significantly lowballed his GOEs but I guess the skating gods were watching. I don't know, what does he have to do to get +3s? Tano everything? Can anyone else pull that kind of landing and flow for every jump at that difficulty right now?

Skate last, I think. Like in 2015 GPF, when he skated a perfect FS after a bunch of really good and great freeskates. I think the first great skates pump the judges up, and they go up and up and up.

 

[Bcash]

Sympathies towards Javi.

The reality now is that you need to at least plan 4 Quads and not fall on at least 3 of them in your FS to safely remain within reach of the podium.

 

[jaylee]

Yuzuru's TES was in FS was 6 points higher than Shoma's. He made up for the SP difference as much in TES as in PCS. But it must be said that an on-point Shoma is not easy to beat. Boy's got the tech with the best of them - at least in the eyes of the judges.

I was making an observation based on facts. I'll repeat myself and say that I'm happy that Yuzuru won and that I believe he deserved higher PCS than Shoma.

But Shoma had the higher technical score overall, across both segments combined. Yuzuru had the higher TES in the FS but it didn't actually make up the bigger gap in TES in the SP. He needed PCS to make up the gap.

Shoma Uno's SP TES (59.16) + FS TES (120.03) = 179.19
Yuzuru Hanyu's SP TES (52.04) + FS TES (126.12) = 178.16

Yuzuru's overall combined TES is 1.03 points less than Shoma Uno's.

Shoma Uno's SP PCS (45.7) + FS PCS (94.42) = 140.12
Yuzuru Hanyu's SP PCS (47.35) + FS PCS (97.08) = 144.43

Yuzuru's overall combined PCS is 4.31 points more than Shoma Uno's, making up the TES differential.

Yuzuru did not beat Shoma based on the technical scores. He beat him with PCS. I myself don't have a problem with that, but I did observe that it was a weird coincidence that it has happened twice now, both times against his country's #2 skater.

Look, in any competition, ideally, the goal is to win with the highest TES and PCS. No one wants to skaters win with just TES or just PCS. It didn't happen this time but that does not mean that Yuzuru did not deserve to win. He did. What it means is that this worlds win isn't as strong as a win as say, his historic 2015 GPF win, where he won all segments unequivocally.

 

[deedee1]

Congrats to all medalists!

What a competition! I still feel dizzy...
In performance-wise, I pretty much loved Shoma, Boyang, Patrick and Jason. They all sold their programs in their own way. Kudos to them :thumbsup: : to my eyes, Shoma was passion. Boyang was wizard. Patrick was philosopher. Jason was breeze.

My honest feeling? if anyone ever interested in mine. "Give Shoma the best PCS of the night!"
He sold the program the best tonight I thought. He was so into the program, while others were in a competition-mode more or less. I don't have a say at all that Yuzuru to have won overall due to much stronger TES because he was just so perfect with every single elements. I would have been a little happier if Shoma's TES 3 points lower but PCS higher the same amount, thus it doesn't affect overall standings. Don't get me wrong. Scoring PCS is not my profession, of course. hwell: I am only writing my personal preference.

Oh and congrats to USA to get 3 spots for Oly Games!

 

[Jammers]

People seemed to forget that this experience of Nathan skating against the best of the best should have happened last year but he didn't get the chance. This will be a learning experience. He knows what he needs to work on and expecting him to medal against this field was expecting a lot. Next season he will know how to pace himself better he was in such a hurry to make a name for himself that i think he burnt himself out especially with all the focus he had on the quads. Hopefully now he works on his 3axel and maybe less on quads. If Adam who used to have a bad axel can make his better there is no reason Nathan can fix his too.

 

[Fresca]

I was making an observation based on facts. I'll repeat myself and say that I'm happy that Yuzuru won and that I believe he deserved higher PCS than Shoma.

But Shoma had the higher technical score overall, across both segments combined. Yuzuru had the higher TES in the FS but it didn't actually make up the bigger gap in TES in the SP. He needed PCS to make up the gap.

Shoma Uno's SP TES (59.16) + FS TES (120.03) = 179.19
Yuzuru Hanyu's SP TES (52.04) + FS TES (126.12) = 178.16

Yuzuru's overall combined TES is 1.03 points less than Shoma Uno's.

Shoma Uno's SP PCS (45.7) + FS PCS (94.42) = 140.12
Yuzuru Hanyu's SP PCS (47.35) + FS PCS (97.08) = 144.43

Yuzuru's overall combined PCS is 4.31 points more than Shoma Uno's, making up the TES differential.

Yuzuru did not beat Shoma based on the technical scores. He beat him with PCS. I myself don't have a problem with that, but I did observe that it was a weird coincidence that it has happened twice now, both times against his country's #2 skater.

Look, in any competition, ideally, the goal is to win with the highest TES and PCS. No one wants to skaters win with just TES or just PCS. It didn't happen this time but that does not mean that Yuzuru did not deserve to win. He did. What it means is that this worlds win isn't as strong as a win as say, his historic 2015 GPF win, where he won all segments unequivocally.

Yuzu's jumps were all underscored GOE wise. This performance...I don't know what else he could have done to get +3s on all his jumps especially on his 3A combos where he was scored +2 and +2.14 instead of 3 for both. That more than makes up the TES differential right there. None of his jumps were scored +3 btw. I really don't know why. You can see that in the screenshot of his scores Jackie Wong posted.

 

[Yatagarasu]

Yuzuru's overall combined TES is 1.03 points less than Shoma Uno's.

Yes, because Shoma Uno (Japan's #1 skater, not #2, when JSF is concerned) is quite over-scored, on both the GOE and the PCS. That's why those points are there. At the same time, Yuzuru was held down in both the GOEs and PCS to make room for Uno (and Javier). It is absolutely ridiculous when you compare the quality of their jumps and the scores they were given, and quite obvious. This matters when we have all these top skaters, as the margins of victory are often small in the end.

That Yuzuru won even with that nonsense happening speaks of just how good he is.
It is a also good warning to Yuzuru though, for next season. He has to be completely clean in both programs, if he wants to control his own destiny against the candies.

 

[Eclair]

I have to say I thought the judging of the top men was pretty good in both sp and fs! Of course here and there I'd have given a few points less or more(e.g. more GOE on Hanyu's 3axel in the sp, Nathan's PCS lower in both sp and lp, would have given Patrick a little higher PCS in the lp), but the ranking of the top men turned out to be the same as I'd have placed them :luv17:

I'm deliberately saying top men, because I always think that the lesser known skaters are judged more harshly than the top guys. E.g. Julian Zhi Jie yee had a wonderfully creative and original choreographed LP and the PCS didn't reflect that. But I have to say (and looking at the amount of people who are complaining about the result (surprisingly less)) that I was pretty d'accord with the results Cheers to the judges and the announcer who didn't leave out any syllables in the skater's names:clapper:

 

[eta]

Slightly off topic but I don't know where to ask, can someone link me to the isu pdf that says something along the lines of medalists for worlds will not face each other in the next grand prix season? Excluding final of course.

 

[Rissa]

I was making an observation based on facts. I'll repeat myself and say that I'm happy that Yuzuru won and that I believe he deserved higher PCS than Shoma.

But Shoma had the higher technical score overall, across both segments combined. Yuzuru had the higher TES in the FS but it didn't actually make up the bigger gap in TES in the SP. He needed PCS to make up the gap.

Shoma Uno's SP TES (59.16) + FS TES (120.03) = 179.19
Yuzuru Hanyu's SP TES (52.04) + FS TES (126.12) = 178.16

Yuzuru's overall combined TES is 1.03 points less than Shoma Uno's.

Shoma Uno's SP PCS (45.7) + FS PCS (94.42) = 140.12
Yuzuru Hanyu's SP PCS (47.35) + FS PCS (97.08) = 144.43

Yuzuru's overall combined PCS is 4.31 points more than Shoma Uno's, making up the TES differential.

Yuzuru did not beat Shoma based on the technical scores. He beat him with PCS. I myself don't have a problem with that, but I did observe that it was a weird coincidence that it has happened twice now, both times against his country's #2 skater.

Look, in any competition, ideally, the goal is to win with the highest TES and PCS. No one wants to skaters win with just TES or just PCS. It didn't happen this time but that does not mean that Yuzuru did not deserve to win. He did. What it means is that this worlds win isn't as strong as a win as say, his historic 2015 GPF win, where he won all segments unequivocally.

Ah, I see.

But really? Lol, I think you went overboard with "no one". I, and I bet most others, don't see anything wrong with winning either on TES or on PCS - as long as either is actually deserved and rivals are scored deservedly as well. Remember when Patrick won 4CCs over Boyang? Patrick was beaten soundly on TES across the 2 programs, actually he was beaten on TES in both programs, but he won on massive PCS and I don't recall anybody minding terribly. People were happy for Patrick. Sui/Han just won on TES and I by no means think they are the undeserving champions.

ETA: That "should win both tes and pcs" philosophy would be really iffy though, what if one skater wins SP both on TES and PCS, and another wins FS both on TES and PCS, but overall none of them has advantage in both categories? Like, really.

 

[TerpsichoreFS]

So... Shoma wuzrobbed?

 

[Rissa]

So... Shoma wuzrobbed?

 

[eta]

So... Shoma wuzrobbed?

I can't tell if you are sincere or sarcastic. Have you watched the competition? Specifically the pre-rotations and scratchy landings?

 

[Rissa]

I can't tell if you are sincere or sarcastic. Have you watched the competition? Specifically the pre-rotations and scratchy landings?

Calm down eta, Terpsichore was joking.

 

[KatGrace1925]

People seemed to forget that this experience of Nathan skating against the best of the best should have happened last year but he didn't get the chance. This will be a learning experience. He knows what he needs to work on and expecting him to medal against this field was expecting a lot. Next season he will know how to pace himself better he was in such a hurry to make a name for himself that i think he burnt himself out especially with all the focus he had on the quads. Hopefully now he works on his 3axel and maybe less on quads. If Adam who used to have a bad axel can make his better there is no reason Nathan can fix his too.

This is all absolutely true. He did not need to win here, and I think not winning here will be better for him in the long run because it is a learning experience he needed. I think 6 quads was a little much and I wonder if he'll go for it again at WTT.