Yulia Lipnitskaya
- Thread starter koatcue
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OMG, I can almost smell all the $$$! :eeking:I can't wait for Yulia to pen a tell-all autobiographical book titled "The Product".
the TV interview with Eteri: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3b83LROvCc
important interview with Averbukh, be prepared: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/in...ways-be-the-face-of-the-sochi-olympics.95729/
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I wasn't talking about either one of those...
Oh the dramazzzz. The 2016 Skate America-Trophee Eric Bompard period....there was enough media shitstorm from certain individuals back then to turn me off certain people for life. Not going to backtrack to dig those ones up.....bad aftertaste. In short, I'm glad and not surprised at all that Yulia left all that behind, said thanks/adieu and moved on.
Meanwhile....
I can't wait for Yulia to pen a tell-all autobiographical book titled "The Product".
I had the same thought. my title "Commodity on Ice." Yulia is too high-minded to indulge in mud slinging, but imagine reading a collection of one-liners and aphorisms, illustrated by her and with photographs. An immediate best seller.
Unfortunately Yulia has yet to leave it behind, but at least she is out of the stalag.
These were the most revealing from all Eteri and Averbukh interviews that I know of. This is the Averbukh interview with the comment
"A lot depends on the coach as well. For example working with Lipnitskaya it wasn't her I was choreographing for, but Tutberidze, so she would understand what I mean to do, so she would like it. Just that the skater is not always willing to take orders, just like Julia." This speaks to your point in #11477 above, that Yulia may have thought Eteri tacitly approved Averbukh's comments. Eteri could have and should have confronted Averbukh about the hostile interviews immediately and thrown her sympathy and support with Yulia in ways that would offset Averbukh's aggressiveness. There is no evidence that she did so. Keep in mind she was 16 and they were the most important adults in her training. One was aggressive, the other passive aggressive.
This best seller will be swiftly followed by a movie adaptation (or a HBO miniseries). However, shortly after the commercial success of the book and its mainstream counterpart, fans and publishers alike resumes to relentlessly hound Yulia...this time around to show and sell some of her drawings. To their shock and dismay, Yulia instead illustrates a series of comics based on 100 Most Inappropriate "Yo mama" jokes, where in the subsequent skating season it is interpreted into a new routine for one of the russian ladies by none other than Ilia Averbukh. Complete with finger pointing, waddling and inaudible laughing, the program will break all the records...much to the displeasure of FS fans everywhere outside of eastern Europe.
Thanks for this. Eteri should stop giving interviews, she only makes things worse for herself. After more than 6 years together, how could Eteri show zero sensitivity toward Yulia? Eteri tells us she was embarrassed before the fed, deprived of a visit with her sister, wasted money on tickets, and her feelings were hurt. No empathy with Yulia, Eteri is totally self-absorbed.
Yulia wouldn't agree that her results are worse after Eteri. In an interview in March, 2016 after the 2015-16 season, she says 3 of 4 clean (free) skates since the Olympics were with Alexei: EV: It went on for the whole past Olympic season?
YL: Even longer. The only time I was able to pull a clean, even if a weak programme was last October in Skate America. The next two clean skate happened before the Nationals when I was practicing with Urmanov and once again just before the Russian cup in Saransk. http://www.sport-express.ru/se-velena/reviews/979675/
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- Apr 23, 2014
I don't like to held Eteri responsible for all the evil in the world, but clearly she has benefited from Yulia more than the other way around. For Yulia that must be hard to swallow, because she knows she has basically been a lab rat for other people's advatage. She won an Olympic gold in the process, so it's tough to say, but maybe she would have been better without Eteri....anyway we'll never know
I remember reading or hearing at the time of 2015 Trophée Eric Bompard that Tutberidze chose not to go with Yulia to TEB in order to stay in Moscow to "focus on Medvedeva". Also, I remember watching a competition on British Eurosport (honestly can't remember which one, perhaps Worlds last year?) and it was just after Medvedeva finished another flawless skate and the British commentators said (about Med) "Lipnitskaya was the prototype, and Medvedeva is the finished result". My blood still boils…
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- Oct 25, 2014
But we do have to agree they're not completely in the wrong. It's just that there was a lot more buzz around Yulia during the Olympic season and pressure, which is something that never happened to Medvedeva. Of course, far from me to say it's easy to win two World Titles, but Yulia was on a mission to bring the glory back to Russia, and she succeded, only to be left high and dry a year after, and become the headline of a smearing campaign that never seemed to end. And I'm not even talking about Eteri, she gave her version of events, but there are a lot more people who took up on themselves to talk about her just because.
Eteri seems very no-nonsense when she talks about her method of coaching, but it's clear this method never seemed to cope well with the amount of pressure Yulia was put through during and after Sochi. In the same way Yulia herself didn't seem to be able to - but whose fault is that? In the end, there were enough girls coming out of the pipeline for Eteri to not need to make more of an effort to help Yulia, which I don't really blame her for not doing. She had other girls, Yulia needed a different approach, they should part ways.
But it seems interesting to me that Eteri still talks about Yulia like she was the victim of it all. She didn't know anything, she went to a competition for nothing, all the skaters did something behind her back. If she wasn't bothered by those kind of things she wouldn't ever have talked about them, but I guess she's human after all.
No one could cope up with that crazy amount of attention and pressure at the age of 15. No one. Eteri is too insensitive. She did try. I would give her that. I don't blame Eteri for failing that. Even if she tries harder she could have failed. Just she should not talk about what happened as if it hurt her so much. If it hurts Eteri 10, then it hurts Yulia 100.
There is good attention and bad attention. Yulia thrives on support, including support from the public. She takes every opportunity to tell fans their support is important to her personally, statements like "I couldn't do it without you." She can't tolerate intrusiveness and meddling. She is also concerned over letting people down. But her situation is a lot more complicated than affects of pressure and fame.
Things really turned south when she rejected Averbukh's FS music choice the season after the Olympics. He took her rejection of his masterpiece as an insult, his vindictive reaction was personal, public and destructive. The fact that she tried to skate to his music for a week, but hated it more each day made no difference to him, may have made things worse. Some connection is likely between Averbukh's hostility and her persistent failure in FS competitions. She and Eteri desperately worked together to salvage some FS against a deadline while Averbukh refused to help. At this time she had major problems from orthotics and boots, including bleeding feet. It was later that Eteri pulled back. Yulia the perfectionist, under the stress of complications, undoubtedly became trying even for her long-time ally and second mother Eteri. At this point a coach change was considered (Yulia unfriended Eteri on facebook), they went to the fed. I wish we knew more about that fateful meeting than just its outcome. We also know little of the conflicts that had evolved in Eteri's group after the Olympics. Finally it was the 16yo who drew the line and went to Alxei. Maybe the fed didn't understand, maybe Eteri didn't speak forcefully enough. All we know for certain is that by the time Yulia left Eteri she was under a "collosal psychological burden" (quote from Alexei), and that with Alexei the conflicts have vanished.
I was a huge supporter of Eteri before watching the television interview where she said "what can you do when an athlete doesn't want to practice, to compete." I think most of us could answer that question. Just as in the recent interview, she blames Yulia while being blind to her own role. Eteri is not the same coach Yulia knew before they won the Olympics together. Moviebuff's title "The Product" pretty much sums up what one should expect from post-Olympic Eteri. There is a sense of foreboding in this quote from a Yulia interview from 2012 (age 13): ""Eteri Georgievna is like a self-updating program, she always comes up with something new. I am very happy to skate in her group. The only thing is, she wants my life to be only about figure skating, and I want to do many other things... " https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/index.php?threads/article-about-julia-lipniskaya.85214/
Things really turned south when she rejected Averbukh's FS music choice the season after the Olympics. He took her rejection of his masterpiece as an insult, his vindictive reaction was personal, public and destructive. The fact that she tried to skate to his music for a week, but hated it more each day made no difference to him, may have made things worse. Some connection is likely between Averbukh's hostility and her persistent failure in FS competitions. She and Eteri desperately worked together to salvage some FS against a deadline while Averbukh refused to help. At this time she had major problems from orthotics and boots, including bleeding feet. It was later that Eteri pulled back. Yulia the perfectionist, under the stress of complications, undoubtedly became trying even for her long-time ally and second mother Eteri. At this point a coach change was considered (Yulia unfriended Eteri on facebook), they went to the fed. I wish we knew more about that fateful meeting than just its outcome. We also know little of the conflicts that had evolved in Eteri's group after the Olympics. Finally it was the 16yo who drew the line and went to Alxei. Maybe the fed didn't understand, maybe Eteri didn't speak forcefully enough. All we know for certain is that by the time Yulia left Eteri she was under a "collosal psychological burden" (quote from Alexei), and that with Alexei the conflicts have vanished.
I was a huge supporter of Eteri before watching the television interview where she said "what can you do when an athlete doesn't want to practice, to compete." I think most of us could answer that question. Just as in the recent interview, she blames Yulia while being blind to her own role. Eteri is not the same coach Yulia knew before they won the Olympics together. Moviebuff's title "The Product" pretty much sums up what one should expect from post-Olympic Eteri. There is a sense of foreboding in this quote from a Yulia interview from 2012 (age 13): ""Eteri Georgievna is like a self-updating program, she always comes up with something new. I am very happy to skate in her group. The only thing is, she wants my life to be only about figure skating, and I want to do many other things... " https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/index.php?threads/article-about-julia-lipniskaya.85214/
Guess is the operative word, for sure. We don't know enough about her to unequivocally attribute her comments to feeling or to strategy. Magdalena makes this very plausible point in post #11478: Eteri is trying to create a good image of herself to encourage young and talented girls and boys to join her group. Eteri also said because of Yulia she couldn't visit her sister, wasted money on tickets, was humiliated publicly. These statements aren't from a wounded heart. Rather, they are like points of evidence in a case against nasty Yulia compiled by businesswoman Eteri. If she had uttered one sentence of sympathy for Yulia, I would have entertained being human. Now that New Age Eteri has made it to the C-suite (thanks in large part to Yulia), for skaters it's do-quads-or-die.
ETA I wrote this before I read the following linked interview. Please allow Eteri to clarify whether it is feeling or strategy in her own words: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/in...nging-on-the-sport-results-discipline.101210/
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Oh please. Are they for real? Is it possible to be so stupid?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall it wasn't (just) the fed, but the Ministry of Sport. Mutko was always a fervent supporter of the duo, especially considering all the positive PR the Sochi Olympics got from the Team Event/Team Russia performances, generating positive coverage from worldwide and nationwide media alike (most notably the one-two punch of Plushy's and Yulia's team event performances). After Nationals in early 2015, rumour mills were going off the chart on forums and in the news about a split between the pair (eg. Yulia's departure, possibly skating for 3 random countries
, retirement, etc, etc, etc). But after both parties were called into the meeting with the Ministry, they both released statements confirming that they were staying together. {see this entire thread on FSU if you are interested}Okay, point is...they TRIED to make it work; Yulia didn't bolt at the first sign of puberty and injury, and Eteri didn't dump Yulia at the first sign of an off-podium finish. The ministry tried, Yulia tried, Eteri tried, it was by no means a sudden departure that no-one saw coming from a mile away. Eteri tried to adjust Yulia's training plan, and Yulia tried to relearn her technique from scratch. All parties made an effort to make it work. Obviously there were complications and it didn't work out in the end. I'm trying my best not to be in bias-fan mode here. This is my recollection of that early 2015 season (correct me if I'm wrong or missed something):
After 2015 Finlandia, Yulia went to train in America 2-3 weeks prior to Skate Amerca and took Sergei Dukakov with her, probably because Eteri or at least one main coach had to stay in Moscow for everyone else, during Skate America there were on-site fan/audience reports of Eteri and Yulia being visibly distant to one another (ie. coach bias, coldness, etc)...the subsequent NBC/Tara Lipinski gossiping about Yulia/Zhenya and "how Eteri told her...etc etc" did NOT help the situation...nor did the weekly opinion-piece interviews with Averbukh about Yulia's personality, weight and mother (I'm not digging those up). Come Trophee Eric Bompard, Yulia decides to take Dudakov and not Eteri with her, the day after her 2nd place placement after the SP the event is cancelled due to the Paris terrorist attacks. When everyone returned to Russia after being stranded in France for a few days, Yulia made an official statement of her parting ways with Eteri.
Whilst others gossiped and wrote extensive think pieces, up to that point it was a civil departure as far as Eteri and Yulia's concerned. Yulia to my knowledge has never (yet) discussed or dissed her former coaches, not even with Vaytsekhovskaya who is known for being extremely anti-Eteri and no doubt pressed her about the topic.
*Places bias fan hat on back on*
Why can't all parties just keep it civil in a professional breakup? I've said this with Averbukh and I'll say it again. When you are made privy to certain personal details and information during a professional and/or creative collaboration, is it not common decency to not carelessly (if not purposely) spread this information to the media?!
:dumb:
I'll admit it, Eteri's interviews are always blunt and fascinating to read, and her methods of coaching star pupils are effective in an 'ends justify the means' kind of way. And despite giving flowers, saying thanks and goodbye to Eteri in the principle's office, perhaps Yulia's methods of relaying information to Eteri via RusFed before TEB was a tad too cold and insensitive, but alas...I would argue so is spreading private and personal information about said former pupils (and their parents) who paid and entrusted you with their careers. It also wouldn't hurt to be a bit more sensitive about a young athlete's mental and physical well-being during a tough period of their life, because you know...'teenagers + puberty + pending adulthood'...IT HAPPENS. :handw:
^^^moviebuff, Thank you for the thoughtful, thorough reply. My sources are comprised of this thread, a dab of FSU forum, and interviews that are made public. That limits the scope of my understanding so I appreciate your generous post all the more.
As I recall, the tone of statements I saw after their meeting with the fed+ struck me as pro-forma and politically correct, they told me nothing. Yulia unfriending Eteri on facebook spoke louder. Her mother's deep concern about Yulia's welfare was also unsettling. I was confused because Eteri had previously been Yulia's anchor.
Eteri accompanied Yulia and Adian Pitkeev for their first Marina Zueva training. This experience was very positive for Yulia. And for Eteri. I was not privy to any gossip, did not know what had transpired during training before the trip to Marina. Yulia was with a choreographer who repsected and nurtured her artistry (antidote for Averbukh). I attributed the choice of Marina to Eteri, and praised Eteri for appreciating Yulia the artist. The solid, loving relationship that lifted Yulia from backwoods kid to international champion appeared to be thriving in a creative environment. Here is an Eteri interview link, together with photos, all of which spelled nirvana to me. There is not a word nor an image to belie a blissfully happy, productive collaboration. http://fsrussia.ru/intervyu/1108-eteri-tutberidze-bolshoe-sozdaetsya-iz-melochej.html
I don't remember reading about Yulia's second residency in Canton before Skate America. I didn't know Eteri wasn't with her, but that wouldn't have raised concern since Eteri spent about 2 weeks in Canton on the first trip. What I do remember is Yulia's expression in K&C after her FS's from that period, painful to watch. Most ominous was Dudakov and Eteri talking to each other over Yulia, as if Yulia wasn't even there (Skate America)--they should either console Yulia or say nothing. The message to me was that Yulia did not matter, it was over. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdVKMH6q
Yulia's issues are mostly psychological. Emotional considerations and sensitivity are pretty much beyond Eteri. This was the world's worst coaching fit. Eteri sees her students as commodities (your word 'products' is perfect), she insists that they obey and never to question or think. I am not making this up, it comes directly from her. (everyone should read this https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/in...nging-on-the-sport-results-discipline.101210/ ). This is why Averbukh was allowed to get away with his flagrant attacks on Yulia, the two think alike. Neither should be allowed anywhere near children in my opinion, certainly not near Yulia. In an interview after she went to Alexei, Yulia used the words 'very cruel' to describe Eteri's training environment. At about the same time Eteri described Yulia as a skater who doesn't want to practice or compete. I leave to your imaginations to piece together the nightmare of deterioration that those final months must have been.
I agree completely about using discretion in all public statements no matter what the subject, and the lamentable absence of common decency. As things about Eteri-Yulia leak out, we sense how horrific the situation had become. In addition to public civility there needs to be close and thorough monitoring by some qualified authority to make sure children are not abused. I had not thought of the political pressures to keep Eteri and Yulia together (thanks for that insight), brought to bear by the same authorities who should have split them up. Much of what Yulia endured was entirely avoidable.
ETA I used the word fed again out of habit, you're probably right it that it was sports ministry. Just read it as 'Whoever.'
As I recall, the tone of statements I saw after their meeting with the fed+ struck me as pro-forma and politically correct, they told me nothing. Yulia unfriending Eteri on facebook spoke louder. Her mother's deep concern about Yulia's welfare was also unsettling. I was confused because Eteri had previously been Yulia's anchor.
Eteri accompanied Yulia and Adian Pitkeev for their first Marina Zueva training. This experience was very positive for Yulia. And for Eteri. I was not privy to any gossip, did not know what had transpired during training before the trip to Marina. Yulia was with a choreographer who repsected and nurtured her artistry (antidote for Averbukh). I attributed the choice of Marina to Eteri, and praised Eteri for appreciating Yulia the artist. The solid, loving relationship that lifted Yulia from backwoods kid to international champion appeared to be thriving in a creative environment. Here is an Eteri interview link, together with photos, all of which spelled nirvana to me. There is not a word nor an image to belie a blissfully happy, productive collaboration. http://fsrussia.ru/intervyu/1108-eteri-tutberidze-bolshoe-sozdaetsya-iz-melochej.html
I don't remember reading about Yulia's second residency in Canton before Skate America. I didn't know Eteri wasn't with her, but that wouldn't have raised concern since Eteri spent about 2 weeks in Canton on the first trip. What I do remember is Yulia's expression in K&C after her FS's from that period, painful to watch. Most ominous was Dudakov and Eteri talking to each other over Yulia, as if Yulia wasn't even there (Skate America)--they should either console Yulia or say nothing. The message to me was that Yulia did not matter, it was over. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdVKMH6q
Yulia's issues are mostly psychological. Emotional considerations and sensitivity are pretty much beyond Eteri. This was the world's worst coaching fit. Eteri sees her students as commodities (your word 'products' is perfect), she insists that they obey and never to question or think. I am not making this up, it comes directly from her. (everyone should read this https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/in...nging-on-the-sport-results-discipline.101210/ ). This is why Averbukh was allowed to get away with his flagrant attacks on Yulia, the two think alike. Neither should be allowed anywhere near children in my opinion, certainly not near Yulia. In an interview after she went to Alexei, Yulia used the words 'very cruel' to describe Eteri's training environment. At about the same time Eteri described Yulia as a skater who doesn't want to practice or compete. I leave to your imaginations to piece together the nightmare of deterioration that those final months must have been.
I agree completely about using discretion in all public statements no matter what the subject, and the lamentable absence of common decency. As things about Eteri-Yulia leak out, we sense how horrific the situation had become. In addition to public civility there needs to be close and thorough monitoring by some qualified authority to make sure children are not abused. I had not thought of the political pressures to keep Eteri and Yulia together (thanks for that insight), brought to bear by the same authorities who should have split them up. Much of what Yulia endured was entirely avoidable.
ETA I used the word fed again out of habit, you're probably right it that it was sports ministry. Just read it as 'Whoever.'
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Well, Johnny Weir did say that Medvedeva was as Lipnitskaya 2.0 in a tv interview in Russian... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfglLvQRCks (1:30 on).
The 2 are totally different, but come from the same factory, which is enough for someone to justify a comparison...
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