2017 GP Skate America Ladies SP

[andromache]

RT SO HARD on the Karen comment like what kind of coach would let her switch both programs the day before a competition?!!!?

For instance, I don't think Wakaba is more gifted than Karen Chen. She is not, and maybe even vice versa.
But Wakaba has already 2 junior Worlds and 3 senior GP medals, while Karen none. Consistency.

If I were Karen's fan, I'd be crazy frustrated. :disapp:

I am genuinely starting to wonder if Tammy Gambill just has zero discipline??? I get the sense from her that she's a nice, motherly type - maybe a little too nice? Rafael or Frank Carroll or BOrser or Eteri would NEVER let their skater mess around so much with programs/choreography. I think going back to the Swan SP is good for Karen, yes, but someone should've decided that way sooner.

I appreciate when skaters have creative freedom, but there are limits. After this season is over, I think USFS should intervene.

Ugh, I really am just mad right now.

 

[lavender]

I hope I eat my words but why is Ashley the headline again?

 

[frida80]

I am genuinely starting to wonder if Tammy Gambill just has zero discipline??? I get the sense from her that she's a nice, motherly type - maybe a little too nice? Rafael or Frank Carroll or BOrser or Eteri would NEVER let their skater mess around so much with programs/choreography. I think going back to the Swan SP is good for Karen, yes, but someone should've decided that way sooner.

I appreciate when skaters have creative freedom, but there are limits. After this season is over, I think USFS should intervene.

Ugh, I really am just mad right now.

Be prepared to get more angry. Karen wanted to have that as her SP all along, but someone talked her out of it in favor for more bold programs.

 

[brightphoton]

I hope I eat my words but why is Ashley the headline again?

I dunno, maybe because she has only carried the entire US ladies figure skating team for the last 8 years

 

[Cherry blossom]

I dunno, maybe because she has only carried the entire US ladies figure skating team for the last 8 years

So true it hurts.

 

[andromache]

Her constant program changes this season make me think that her boot problems that one year were more mental than anything. I wouldn't be surprised to see her put it together at Nationals but then pull a Jeremy Abbott and flail at the Olympics. Eeek. I don't know what she should do after this event though... a coaching change seems too simple for the problems she's facing. She's a riddle wrapped up in an enigma. :hopelessness:

I never get the sense from Karen (other than her mistakes) that she is a particularly anxious/nervous skater, unlike Jeremy and Gracie.

I wonder if there isn't enough solid goal-setting and changes happening to make those goals real. We never seem to hear from her or her team talk about UR issues (an obvious technique problem) or the inconsistency, other than to make vague excuses. Sure, skaters like Ashley and Mirai and Adam might not always meet their stated objectives, but they talk about the work they're doing to overcome their struggles. We're aware of what they want to accomplish and the steps they're taking to accomplish it.

 

[temadd]

Hopefully she is fully recovered, I flashed back to the Jill Trenary scenario of 1991.
http://www.nytimes.com/1991/01/13/sports/sports-people-trenary-ailing.html?pagewanted=print&src=pm

And on video
https://youtu.be/uUypC8lz8ZI

What's with the ankle infections? Is this a skater thing from the boots?

 

[andromache]

Be prepared to get more angry. Karen wanted to have that as her SP all along, but someone talked her out of it in favor for more bold programs.

WHOOOOOOO?????

Ugh. I am more angry. I hate all the program repetition this season, but all the messing around with different programs is a massive waste of time and energy. It's amateur. Karen is national champ and placed 4th at Worlds last year, and she and her team should be able to do better at making a decision and making that decision work.

 

[MIM]

Protocols are hilarious... NO CARROTS -- except for the American ladies? :think: Judges seem very divided on Kaori's PCS. Satoko clean but virtually no GOEs on jumps.

I think it is a good sign for Kaori. It is the transitional state where they cannot simply believe what they have seen. She is pretty new to the scene, hence not enough data (reputation) for the judges to place her scores. I understand this as a human error (judges not be able to conceive what they see at the moment and afraid of being transparent), as well as a prelude to hike up her pcs in the fp when she’s equally awesome.

 

[TontoK]

Karen needed a coaching change 2 years ago instead of the constant excuses. Her talent is undeniable, and it's being wasted.

Allow me to riff off of this comment to rant on the pitiful state of coaching of US skaters.

This thing with Karen Chen's program changes is ridiculous.

Rafa changing out Nathan's blade on the day of a GP LP is one of the nuttier decisions I've seen, unless the blade was absolutely unrepairable.

And, finally, I've already had a lot to say about the whole Ko-Ro team that has mismanaged Jason Brown.

These are capable world-class athletes, and their coaches seem to be hell-bent on eroding every bit of confidence the athletes should be gaining from a coach.

It's time for them to get it together.

 

[labgoat]

What's with the ankle infections? Is this a skater thing from the boots?

The stiffness of the boots can rub against the tendons especially if they are inflamed from rotation issues, bad landings, swelling, or overuse injury from practice. I eventually stopped skating after much damage to both my Achilles and perineal tendons left me unable to get any lift on my jumps culminating in a bad concussion.

All this rubbing can lead to sores and sweaty feet in skates opens the possibility of staph infections

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I know Yulia pretty much only ever says nice things about everyone but I'm especially interested to hear what she said about Sima. It really made my day just seeing how happy she was in the KnC. She was expecting a much lower score and when it came out she was so struck with emotion. I hope to see her smiling again in the FS.

 

[kevinVchicago]

Really, she is one of the cutest people I have ever seen. I just want to give her a hug

True!

 

[gravy]

I never get the sense from Karen (other than her mistakes) that she is a particularly anxious/nervous skater, unlike Jeremy and Gracie.

I wonder if there isn't enough solid goal-setting and changes happening to make those goals real. We never seem to hear from her or her team talk about UR issues (an obvious technique problem) or the inconsistency, other than to make vague excuses. Sure, skaters like Ashley and Mirai and Adam might not always meet their stated objectives, but they talk about the work they're doing to overcome their struggles. We're aware of what they want to accomplish and the steps they're taking to accomplish it.

Accountability does seem to be a more dire issue now that you mention it. I would say it's a cultural issue between Americans and something like the Chinese and Russians because the American skaters employ the coaches... you can't be too tough if you want your paycheck. But I don't think Brian Orser up North or his team would allow this sort of laissez faire approach to skating either. So what's the solution? Should skating be more of a centralized system to hold not only athletes accountable but also their coaches? I'd say yes normally but I dabble in media for gymnastics and due to the whole Nassar thing, I'd hazard implementing a system like that because it can create some pretty toxic environments. I don't know what the best thing to do is but hopefully the USFS does some major restructuring after this year.

 

[Arriba627]

I think Karen is now with Kristi Y's old coach, Christie Ness.

Tammy was with Karen at Sk Canada and was in the Kiss and Cry today too. I heard her ask Karen if she was ok (because of the fall).

 

[frida80]

I never get the sense from Karen (other than her mistakes) that she is a particularly anxious/nervous skater, unlike Jeremy and Gracie.

I wonder if there isn't enough solid goal-setting and changes happening to make those goals real. We never seem to hear from her or her team talk about UR issues (an obvious technique problem) or the inconsistency, other than to make vague excuses. Sure, skaters like Ashley and Mirai and Adam might not always meet their stated objectives, but they talk about the work they're doing to overcome their struggles. We're aware of what they want to accomplish and the steps they're taking to accomplish it.

I feel that way too. Now To be honest I've compared photos from Karen on the podium in 2015 and 2017 and she grew a LOT! So I know some of her problems were from her growth spurt. But still, I've never heard them say, we're going to fix her _______. It's always, her boots, music, she's a late starter, etc. She needs a real coach that will focus on these problems. Carmen was generic, but could've been savaged with some choreographic changes. She needed to focus on her jumps solely. Snd talking her out of using her previous SP this year, was a terrible idea.

If Karen lands in 9th here, her chance at Olympics are perilous. She would have to win Golden Spin with a huge score to make up for this fall season.

 

[TontoK]

Accountability does seem to be a more dire issue now that you mention it. I would say it's a cultural issue between Americans and something like the Chinese and Russians because the American skaters employ the coaches... you can't be too tough if you want your paycheck. But I don't think Brian Orser up North or his team would allow this sort of laissez faire approach to skating either. So what's the solution? Should skating be more of a centralized system to hold not only athletes accountable but also their coaches? I'd say yes normally but I dabble in media for gymnastics and due to recent drama there, implementing a system like that can create some pretty toxic environments. I don't know what the best thing to do is but hopefully the USFS does some major restructuring after this year.

Maybe it is a thing in America. Sure, I think skaters should have input into music selections, perhaps even in choreographic moments, things like that. But the coach should be man (or woman) enough to stand up to the athlete when they insist on doing something goofy like we've seen with Chen.

At this level, a coach should be tweaking technique and mentoring/guiding a skater to championship moments. Anybody, heck even just us fans, could have predicted the outcome of switching up entire programs for a non-confident skater just prior to a major event.

If her coach didn't try to insert some sanity, then she should be fired. If Karen insisted, then she deserves this downfall.

 

[andromache]

Accountability does seem to be a more dire issue now that you mention it. I would say it's a cultural issue between Americans and something like the Chinese and Russians because the American skaters employ the coaches... you can't be too tough if you want your paycheck. But I don't think Brian Orser up North or his team would allow this sort of laissez faire approach to skating either. So what's the solution? Should skating be more of a centralized system to hold not only athletes accountable but also their coaches? I'd say yes normally but I dabble in media for gymnastics and due to recent drama there, implementing a system like that can create some pretty toxic environments. I don't know what the best thing to do is but hopefully the USFS does some major restructuring after this year.

I wonder if any USFS officials have come to Karen and told her she needs a coaching change? I recall reading they did that with Jason and Kori. (Jason stuck to his guns, for better or worse, but at least someone told him what he should do in order to advance.) But Tammy Gambill coaches a lot of skaters - she's not a rookie like Kori was those years ago. She also seems to be pretty "in" with USFS, at least based on her wikipedia page laugh, so this could be a little political?

I've read enough of the gymnastics headlines to think that a completely centralized system with too much power in just a few hands just too ripe for abuse. But a little more centralization couldn't hurt.

 

[kevinVchicago]

Satoko does choreography. Carolina feels and expresses music.

sorry, what?

 

[da96103]

So what are Wakaba's chances to go to GPF?