2017-18 State of Russian Ladies skating

[vorravorra]

if Konstantinova will be sent to JWC, that means someone from top tier juniors(Trusova, Kostornaya, Tarakanova) will be left out. The ones who have proven themselves this season. If that would happen i would be mad as hell. And its not like i hate Stasya or something, she just doesn't belong to juniors anymore imho.
Even visually it looks ridiculous Find the one who is not a junior on this photo

Actually, the Fed has more reason to send not Konstantinova, but another Senior-eligible skater in place of almost certainly Tarakanova, as it's unlikely anyone will beat either Trusova or Kostornaya. I am hoping for Gubanova for practical reasons, because without a chance at a higher SB she'll have to stay in Juniors with all of the strong girls who are not going to make her life easy. And a clean Gubanova should certainly be able to place above other Senior-eligibles like Panenkova or Samodurova at Junior Nationals. One problem is that there are already enough candidates for Senior GP spots next season without Gubanova, and I don't think they'll want her to potentially overtake Panenkova in the queue who has already said she is going Senior. But having to go Senior with the girls who become eligible in 2019-2020 will be ouch. If there is no chance of Gubanova going, I'd rather they went with Tarakanova. She is not a threat to anyone in the queue so no reason why not, and she can certainly be scored high if she is clean.

 

[starla16]

Konstantinova skates from her back, the most overscored russian skater in russian figure skating history. Getting annoyed by her inflated scores.

she should not be given any junior level competition and should be revoked from participating in junior championships. A lady that should be in seniors, it will be an outrage if she steals one of the junior world spots to more talented girls like Gubanova, Tarakanova, Tarusina, Scherbakova, Trusova, Kostornaia.

 

[starla16]

I doubt she'll get a Junior Worlds spot. I hope Gubanova does, she actually needs it. Konstantinova has already done enough to ensure her position in Seniors for next season.

She can compete in more senior challenger series but isnt her SB enough to get a possible 1 GP next season

 

[Shayuki]

You clearly don't understand, that Stasya is the best Russian adult skater.
She's strong, athletic, good jumper, fast skater, good performer, good looking girl and very nice, warm personality.
She's also very ambitious, hard-working athlete and if you find her skating a bit rough, you should know she started skating at 8! It's like 3-4 years of disadvantage vs the other girls, yet she rocks nationals and is second in Challenger series, all after puberty. She's not extraordinary talent maybe, but definitely safe bet for federation. They'd be stupid to let her go, seeing what's been happening with Lipnitskaya, Radionova, Tuktamysheva, Sakhanovich, etc. roller coaster.

Here she is - 17yo woman, healthy, motivated and physically ready to rock!

That's great. If she's that good, she should be in seniors beating Medvedeva, Sotskova and Zagitova. I'd be actually interested in seeing how that plays out(Internationally). But her being "adult" and "a woman" sort of goes against her still being in juniors as a 17-year-old. If she blocks some super talent from going to jr worlds I don't know if I will be able to forgive her. See I wouldn't have an issue if she just was a weaker skater who wasn't good enough for the senior GPs and got scored like that. But while she's a weaker skater who isn't good enough for senior GPs internationally, she somehow gets treated as a super star skating goddess in domestic scoring. And that is something I have a problem with because I don't think she's deserved such treatment.

On Gubanova, she certainly needs it, yes. But considering what she put out at Russian Nationals and how Konstantinova still decimated her score with a flawed skate, that's very optimistic. I think Gubanova should try to get an assignment somewhere where she can attempt to up her SB if she does not get a spot at jr worlds.


Right, and Mai Mihara also started skating at 8. And despite the relatively lax Japanese competition and the Japanese tendency to leave juniors later, she still did so a year before Konstantinova. Another difference is, Mai Mihara doesn't get domestic scores that seem to expect her to be the greatest figure skater in the nation's history.

 

[vorravorra]

She can compete in more senior challenger series but isnt her SB enough to get a possible 1 GP next season

Gubanova can't compete in Senior events due to age and she is 65th on the SB list. Konstantinova is fine, I am not worried about her.

 

[vorravorra]

That's great. If she's that good, she should be in seniors beating Medvedeva, Sotskova and Zagitova. I'd be actually interested in seeing how that plays out(Internationally). But her being "adult" and "a woman" sort of goes against her still being in juniors as a 17-year-old. If she blocks some super talent from going to jr worlds I don't know if I will be able to forgive her.


On Gubanova, she certainly needs it, yes. But considering what she put out at Russian Nationals and how Konstantinova still decimated her score with a flawed skate, that's very optimistic. I think Gubanova should try to get an assignment somewhere where she can attempt to up her SB if she does not get a spot at jr worlds.

Gubanova doesn't have any other way to improve her SB this season than JW.

 

[Shayuki]

Gubanova doesn't have any other way to improve her SB this season than JW.

Oh, nothing? That's pretty harsh. I thought a half of a season would surely have some possible competitions but I guess not.

 

[vorravorra]

Oh, nothing? That's pretty harsh. I thought a half of a season would surely have some possible competitions but I guess not.

Not eligible for Senior events and I think that even if she was the competitions where you can improve your SB other than the main ones are over for the season.

 

[Shayuki]

Not eligible for Senior events and I think that even if she was the competitions where you can improve your SB other than the main ones are over for the season.

Well, then I guess the hope is that she would get a spot at jr worlds but that's going to be quite the hurdle. I don't even know if she would beat Tarakanova, Trusova and Kostornaia if they all skate clean.

Pretty harsh, huh. I still am not sure why her Tallinn trophy scores were so low. I thought she was quite good there, and as one of the CS it should have more lax scoring.

 

[puremagic]

Pretty harsh, huh. I still am not sure why her Tallinn trophy scores were so low. I thought she was quite good there, and as one of the CS it should have more lax scoring.

She was at her peak at previous JGPF where she got lower PCS than Zagitova which is total nonsense. Even at JWR Zagitova got lower PCS than Honda. But why Nastya didn't beat her in program component scores at JGPF I still don't know. She's miles ahead of her. But I guess after that result at Junior Nationals something went wrong and now judges don't see her as a great talent. In Tallinn she was slightly slow, but still yes - she had to get more points.

Sure, Gubanova's skating this season became less effortless as it was in the last one. But we should remember she was hit by puberty, and still look at her results. I don't expect from her being in the top 3 at junior nationals, but I'm exciting about the next season. When she will used to her new body and will improve her lutz, which became even more stable this season. For example, in the previous season she skated clean her short program just once, if I remember correct. Always stepouts or falls.

 

[Spirals for Miles]

What events count as SB events?

 

[puremagic]

What events count as SB events?

GP, JGP and Challenger Series. And of course Euros, 4CC, WC, WTT.

 

[Shayuki]

I now realize that odds really are stacked against skaters who are becoming senior-eligible for the first time. It's quite difficult to earn the SBs required at this point in time, especially considering how juniors in junior competitions just plain get lower PCS regardless of whether they deserve to or not(That same junior might score 5+ more points with a similar skate, only difference being that it's a senior event).

If the general level of seniors increases so high that juniors just plain cannot earn the SBs necessary, you essentially need 2 years of domination at the junior level and might still not be able to get enough world standing to get to participate in GPs during your first eligible season.

 

[tars]

I'm not advocating Stasya participating in junior worlds at all, on the contrary, I'm pointing out, that she's valuable asset for Russian senior ladies, because of reasons I brought up before.
Plus, she is the first Olympic alternate - I imagine, if Medvedeva doesn't recover or anything bad happen to other girls, RusFed will want have her ready to go healthy and confident with motivating 211p 4th place finish in senior nationals, rather than risk her implosion or even injury at junior nats. I don't see any benefits from her participation there in this moment in time.

There is no need to come after amicable girl with so much negativity ("artificial gatekeeper", etc.), when she's zero influence on the way judges score her. From what I've seen, she is very well-behaved person, never criticizing anybody but herself in her interviews. :scowl:

 

[Shayuki]

I'm not advocating Stasya participating in junior worlds at all, on the contrary, I'm pointing out, that she's valuable asset for Russian senior ladies, because of reasons I brought up.
Plus, she is the first Olympic alternate - I imagine, if Medvedeva doesn't recover or anything bad happen to other girls, RusFed will want have her ready to go healthy and confident with motivating 211p 4th place finish in senior nationals, rather than risk her implosion or even injury at junior nats. I don't see any benefits from her participation there in this moment in time.

There is no need to come after amicable girl with so much negativity ("artificial gatekeeper", etc.), when she's zero influence on the way judges score her. From what I've seen, she is very well-behaved person, never criticizing anybody but herself in her interviews. :scowl:

It's always the same argument, right? Yes, I know that she herself isn't responsible of her scoring. And of course, what she does at the senior level isn't what concerns me - I'm sure that internationally she'll be scored however she is.

It's mainly these two things. #1 is simply that I really don't think she's earned this sort of massive domestic scoring. It's like she gets handed on a silver platter what others have had to really fight for. #2 is that she's in juniors at her age. When combined with #1 and considering how much competition there is even at the pre-senior age group, having someone like this there is completely out of place.

Artificial gatekeeper is pretty self-explanatory, really. Artificial because I don't think her scores are earned(And because they apparently don't even trust her enough internationally to give her a GP spot so it's just domestic boosting). And gatekeeper because she's blocking the junior talent for whom that just might be the only time they get to truly establish themselves in that highly competitive field - There's truly no need for a 17-year-old to mess with that.


I know she's probably a great person and it's not like I hate her personally but if she for instance was the one preventing Shcherbakova from participating in jr worlds as the worst case example, I don't expect myself to be able to think rationally. She competes at the level she should, is scored in line with her performance and I have no issues with her. She will just be a skater with poor posture that I don't particularly enjoy but don't hate either(think Radionova).

 

[tars]

I think with the moment she's become Olympic sub, you may safely assume she's no longer a junior and get off her back already.

 

[Shayuki]

Well, that's fair. I will try to only start worrying if it's confirmed she is even participating.

As it's now Monday over here, 5 days to go!

Setting the mood~

 

[hanca]

I guess hanca has some insider info here. Except the nonsense about staying Panenkova in juniors in the next season, while she is the one of the most consistent skaters and went through puberty already. She said many times that only federation allows to some skaters go to seniors or stay in juniors. And that's why I'm afraid for other 15 yo girls - Katia Kurakova and Anna Tarusina. Will they be caged in juniors for another two years? Because they are ready for seniors even now. But the question with constant local Konstantinova's overscoring is still open.



But she even won the last ISU Challenger. With single flip she got 132 points for the free program and 65 PCS.

I don’t have insider info, puremagic. I am reading a few Russian forums, and I also noticed interesting trend that the Russian federation doesn’t let move up eveyone who becomes senior age eligible. But that’s not insiders information, that’s just noticing the federation’s actions. They are quite consistent with that. It already happened several times that ladies skaters who planned to move up remained in juniors for another year.

About your worry re:Tarusina and Kurakova, unlike you, I do hope they will have a chance to remain in juniors for another year or two. In seniors they don’t have a chance of getting GP events, whereas in juniors there is some chance of getting JGP. And while they are in juniors, they can at the same time compete in senior challengers events to get even more points. One needs lots of points to be able to move successfully to seniors. I don’t think one year of competitions is enough to move to seniors, unless you win completely everything like Zagitova last season.

 

[kalee]

It's mainly these two things. #1 is simply that I really don't think she's earned this sort of massive domestic scoring. It's like she gets handed on a silver platter what others have had to really fight for. #2 is that she's in juniors at her age. When combined with #1 and considering how much competition there is even at the pre-senior age group, having someone like this there is completely out of place.

Artificial gatekeeper is pretty self-explanatory, really. Artificial because I don't think her scores are earned(And because they apparently don't even trust her enough internationally to give her a GP spot so it's just domestic boosting). And gatekeeper because she's blocking the junior talent for whom that just might be the only time they get to truly establish themselves in that highly competitive field - There's truly no need for a 17-year-old to mess with that.

Unlike JGP, the Fed doesn't have all the say in determining who goes to senior GP. Stasya's SB last season was world #28 (and #25 among senior age-eligible skaters), and there were 8 senior age-eligible Russian skaters already within the world's top 24 SB / WR (Medvedeva, Zagitova, Pogorilaya, Radionova, Tsurskaya, Sotskova, Tuktamysheva, and Leonova). Stasya was close enough that there were other skaters below her in SB rankings (e.g. Yuna Shiraiwa) who managed to get 2 GP assignments. But if Russia submitted 9 skaters' names for GP and didn't get 18 spots (i.e. some countries might choose to release only 2 spots rather than 3 for Russians), that would jeopardize Leonova's chances of getting 2 GP spots when she had satisfied the criteria. So it looks like the Fed went the route of not submitting Stasya's name for GP, which means that Leonova is not edged out from a season of GP that she had qualified for. Meanwhile, the Fed also probably does not want to lose a senior age-eligible, post-puberty girl who has the potential to score ~190+, and hence gave Stasya JGP and CS assignments to keep her in the running for senior GP in the following season.

It seems to have worked to some extent, that Stasya is en route to qualifying for senior GP in 2018/2019 season fair and square through her CS scores, and Leonova has dropped out of the world top 24 so she can decide to retire, rather than the Fed retiring her prematurely. That being said, it would not be fair - and not in the Fed's interest anyway if their aim is to generate as broad a talent pipeline as possible - to give her a boost at Junior Nats in order to send her to JW. My bets are on Tarakanova or Gubanova getting that third spot, in any case they should be hungry enough to skate lights out for it.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I love both Anastasia’s so much. This is going to be